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Thread: Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

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  1. #211
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    Just from that pick, I would say I do not know. What year and what location and who surrounds him? I would still say JJ was killed by Bob Ford. There are people after 41 years still believe Elvis Lives. Some people you just have to let go they died.
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  2. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.C. BAKER View Post
    I see your rat's ass and raise you a care less and a wooden nickel!

    Attachment 1665848

    L.C.
    LOL!
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  3. #213

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    Got an old 5 dollar bill (CSA); I'm in... heh!
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  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    I believe JJ died when Bob Ford shot him in the back. If JJ was still living after 1882, his brother Frank would have been at his side but he wasn't. JJ's family and Frank too resorted to all kinds of means to make money off of the death of JJ. There is even a photo of Frank standing at the front gate to the farm with a sign selling stones from JJ's grave. Frank joined in road shows of using his pistols and re-enacting robberies to make money. You think JJ over the KGC with millions of dollars could not help his family out not even his brother Frank or his mother and family. I simply do not believe JJ was over the KGC maybe a member but not acting President. When the Civil War ended he was only like 17 years old. Come on JJ died in 1882 at the hand of Bob Ford.
    I've said this before several times... I have such a Difficult Time wrapping my mind around JJ getting shot like that in his own home by Ford. Maybe it's just you'd think someone with that reputation wouldn't go out that way, and the casket photo doesn't help me any either. lol! The other two things are that the Bullet Hole at the St Joe Home wasn't made by a bullet hitting Anything Hard Before Hitting The Wall. I've seen plenty of gunshots to the skull and if they exit it doesn't look like That wall hole.

    I haven't been there in awhile, I heard they've put plexiglass over it now because people were pulling the plaster away from the hole. But years ago before that, it wasn't a hole made by a bullet or slug that hit something hard first.

    The last thing is...at the 1978 exhumation there was a slug in there that was pristine. It hadn't hit a bone or anything... to me it looked like someone had tossed it in almost as an afterthought if that makes sense. I wasn't standing at the edge of the grave to say with certainty what caliber it was, but it was there.

    Those are just my reasons for doubting he was killed according to the reports. Proves Nothing. Just Thoughts.

    I agree with you there was no way JWJ was head of, or upper management of KGC. JJ was and is a brand that thanks to John Newman Edwards was/is looked on favorably by many and a frontman for anything he was involved with.

    It did occur to me that Frank would have to show some kind of income no matter what he could of had stashed away, so giving tours of the farm and selling rocks from that grave would be very open to anyone watching, same with the shows. Again it's just thoughts, nothing proven except that he did those things.

    His son Robert took over the farm for him. Clay County has it now.

    Kace
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  5. #215
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    Have you read the full autopsy report. To me it convinced me that JJ had been shot by Bob Ford. JJ even had the bullet he carried from being shot in the Civil War. There were two slugs with two different calibers. And both matched what JJ had been shot with. There was something else found, I can not remember what but JJ was wearing it in one of his photos and it was in the grave also.
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  6. #216
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    Kace

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    Yes, I've read it and the full inquest.

    I know it makes sense, I guess I just like the idea of him going out in a hail of bullets and not shot from behind in his own home! lol!

    Kace
    Last edited by Kace; Jan 01, 2019 at 10:28 AM.
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  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    Just from that pick, I would say I do not know. What year and what location and who surrounds him? I would still say JJ was killed by Bob Ford. There are people after 41 years still believe Elvis Lives. Some people you just have to let go they died.
    At Arbor Lodge in Nebraska City, 1904, and it seems the seated man on the left is drawing attention from more men than Teddy Roosevelt (arms crossed)and a whole host of monopolists, but I don't want to stray too far from Kace's thread.

    Disscussion for another day perhaps

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    "HISTORY IS A PACK OF LIES AGREED UPON " Napoleon Bonaparte

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    Got an old 5 dollar bill (CSA); I'm in... heh!
    Show em iff'n you got em.......


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    "HISTORY IS A PACK OF LIES AGREED UPON " Napoleon Bonaparte

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    I've said this before several times... I have such a Difficult Time wrapping my mind around JJ getting shot like that in his own home by Ford. Maybe it's just you'd think someone with that reputation wouldn't go out that way, and the casket photo doesn't help me any either. lol! The other two things are that the Bullet Hole at the St Joe Home wasn't made by a bullet hitting Anything Hard Before Hitting The Wall. I've seen plenty of gunshots to the skull and if they exit it doesn't look like That wall hole.

    I haven't been there in awhile, I heard they've put plexiglass over it now because people were pulling the plaster away from the hole. But years ago before that, it wasn't a hole made by a bullet or slug that hit something hard first.

    The last thing is...at the 1978 exhumation there was a slug in there that was pristine. It hadn't hit a bone or anything... to me it looked like someone had tossed it in almost as an afterthought if that makes sense. I wasn't standing at the edge of the grave to say with certainty what caliber it was, but it was there.

    Those are just my reasons for doubting he was killed according to the reports. Proves Nothing. Just Thoughts.

    I agree with you there was no way JWJ was head of, or upper management of KGC. JJ was and is a brand that thanks to John Newman Edwards was/is looked on favorably by many and a frontman for anything he was involved with.

    It did occur to me that Frank would have to show some kind of income no matter what he could of had stashed away, so giving tours of the farm and selling rocks from that grave would be very open to anyone watching, same with the shows. Again it's just thoughts, nothing proven except that he did those things.

    His son Robert took over the farm for him. Clay County has it now.

    Kace
    The ONLY way that would make sense to me is if Ford was a pawn.

    " Maybe it's just you'd think someone with that reputation wouldn't go out that way, "

    I would venture to say, sneaking up behind Jesse W. James with a gun in your hand would be like sneaking up on a Game Cock.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "HISTORY IS A PACK OF LIES AGREED UPON " Napoleon Bonaparte

  10. #220
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.C. BAKER View Post
    The ONLY way that would make sense to me is if Ford was a pawn.

    " Maybe it's just you'd think someone with that reputation wouldn't go out that way, "

    I would venture to say, sneaking up behind Jesse W. James with a gun in your hand would be like sneaking up on a Game Cock.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Awww...He looks like RuPaul.. The fancy chicken at the farm that was rescued from some Whiskey Tango, POS Cock Fighting group.

    RP loves teasing my pup! He's a sweetheart though.

    Kace
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  11. #221
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    I hung up the gaffs in the 90s, but I was a cockfighter (handler) in another lifetime at Blackberry, Kentucky and Sallisaw, Oklahoma. Both were legal states to fight in at the time.

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    Last edited by L.C. BAKER; Dec 31, 2018 at 06:46 PM.
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    "HISTORY IS A PACK OF LIES AGREED UPON " Napoleon Bonaparte

  12. #222
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    Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by L.C. BAKER View Post
    Show em iff'n you got em.......


    Got an old 5 dollar bill (CSA); I'm in... heh!



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    Last edited by J.H.Crenshaw; Dec 31, 2018 at 07:17 PM.
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  13. #223
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.C. BAKER View Post
    I hung up the gaffs in the 90s, but I was a cockfighter (handler) in another lifetime at Blackberry, Kentucky and Sallisaw, Oklahoma. Both were legal states to fight in at the time.

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    WHAT!! Legal or Not Its No Different Than Dog Fights! It's Sick and Sad! Those gaffs used in cock fights do a lot of painful damage as you well know.

    I'm glad you're not doing That anymore! You'd be missing a co.. chicken before year end!lol!

    I can't imagine that happening to Ru if he hadn't been rescued.

    These aren't even nearly as bad some of the sword looking ones I've seen.

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    Kace
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  14. #224
    pt
    Sep 2014
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    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    Charlie Bigelow and John Trammell are perfect examples of No Author even questioning their existence as Real People involved in JWJ's life because those characters in the story have been repeated so much.
    Here's a Trammell story you probably haven't heard. In 2004, my digging partner George and I were invited over to Ross Cherry's house in Silver City to talk about treasure hunting. It's the first time we'd met Ross and had no idea what to expect.

    Ross was waiting for us back in the ‘war room’ — his office/den at the back of the house. It was as cluttered as any space I’d seen, with stacks of books, folders, tools, maps, boxes of photos and much more stacked on every flat surface, including the floor. Ross was on the phone when we peeked in the door, but he waved us in as he was saying, “They’re here. Call me back in an hour.” He hung up and greeted us. “Hi boys. Come on in and sit down. Just move that stuff off the chairs and put it on the floor.” Ross (1921-2004), a welder and pipe fitter by trade, but had been crippled twenty years earlier by a chiropractor. He was raised in Clovis, New Mexico, and was a life-long treasure hunter, learning from his father Ross Sr. (1886-1944, b. Lawrence County MO). “We hunted outlaw money,” he said, “There was lots of it all over Oklahoma and Texas. New Mexico too. Me and my dad, we used ESP and dowsing quite a bit.”

    George and I had many unsuccessful experiences with dowsers over the years. “Did you ever have much luck?” asked George.


    Ross opened the middle desk drawer and pulled out a .38-special revolver, setting it down within easy reach. Next, he opened one of the deep desk drawers, and with both hands hoisted a crude brick-shaped mass out and placed it in front of us. “You can handle it but don’t take no pictures,” he said. It was a glob of melted gold five or six inches long, three or four inches wide and a couple of inches thick. It weighed about twenty pounds. “It’s outlaw money,” he said. “Melted down double eagles. Found it buried on a fence line in an old corral.” Ten minutes after walking in the door, we had the feel of 300 ounces of gold in our hands.


    The conversation got lively and an hour after we’d arrived, the phone rang. Ross answered and said, “It’s okay. Thanks for calling back.” He hung up the phone without another word and put the gold bar back in the drawer. The revolver remained on the desk.

    Based on what we'd seen so far, I asked Ross if he knew anything about the James Gang. "Well, sure. I've been around it all my life,” he said. “They were all Masons you know, and the smartest people you can imagine. They hid stuff in geometric patterns, then put dots and lines on leather maps. I've seen some of those maps - they're
    real complicated. And they were secretive. They took a blood oath back when a man's word meant something.

    “Heck, at one time Jesse spent a lot of time right here in Silver City,” he said. “Most people around here think you’re lying but it’s true. I’ll bet you didn’t know that Jesse was a silent partner with the owners of the Southern Hotel downtown, did you? That’s where he stayed when he was in town.


    “Here, let me show you one of Jesse’s guns. Those guys had lots of guns in those days, so it’s not that big a deal. Sometimes they’d carry five or six at a time. My dad’s buddy in Texas gave it to him. He knew Jesse pretty well and got it from him in the
    1930’s. Jesse and his people were still plenty busy then. Most folks thought he was killed in Missouri, but that was just a trick.” The revolver Ross handed me was a .38 caliber with no markings other than ‘Texas Rangers’ and a hallmark stamped into the barrel. “My dad passed it on to me. It shoots real straight,” Ross said.

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    Ross continued, "Why, I even met one of Jesse's best men. My dad brought him to the house when I was still young - must have been the late '30's or early '40's. Believe it or not, he was a black man and one of the nicest men I've ever met in my life. Dad was working with him to locate a big cache down by Carlsbad. His name was John Trammell. When they got to where Dad was looking, John told Dad it wasn't the place he remembered."

    Ross knew of JF Dalton but had never heard of the BB. I was able to spend some quality time with him in 2004 before he passed on late in the year. We didn't discuss JJ any more - he had plenty to share on other subjects.

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    Last edited by sdcfia; Dec 31, 2018 at 09:40 PM.
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    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
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  15. #225
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    Mar 2011
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    That’s a great story, Sdc.

 

 
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