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  1. #76
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    No on BB, already read it... BOGUS! Go the ONE DUSTY TRACK Web-site & let the owner know, that it was from the BB, etc.!
    I'm pretty sure he knows without anyone telling him.. he's that type of writer like you have back east with the troll and headless cat... And he's visited the site of the worlds largest Pecan. lol!

    He describes himself as writer, photographer and human.

    Gotta have something on Bigelow PRIOR to the 1930's.

    Kace

  2. #77

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    Tell him, anyway... he MAY have MORE info on "TEXAS Charley"; BTW... Darrel, (back EAST) was a JOKER! His wife, Gail, was an artist... knew 'em both, well!
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Dec 23, 2018 at 05:45 AM.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbb View Post
    I'm hoping this thread is inactive for the Christmas season. The last check with Amazon quoted $275 for the BB. It appears there's some very learned people who have followed this publication and I hope to learn about $1000000 worth of information from the viewpoints and experiences.
    I had read Brewer's book and found it very intriguing, at least until he ended up in Arizona with black helicopters circling around the Superstition Mountains. Then I threw it away, but I have reordered it to try again.
    I am related to the James boys so my interest in the KGC is on the rise.
    Brewer came into his KGC knowledge late in life thanks to the help of well-informed non-family members. His book was not the book he wanted, although there is some very good information in it. Most folks acknowledge that Getler did nobody any favors with his involvement. Brewer and London's "silent partner" was going to write the much-anticipated second book, including much of his own knowledge, but he died in 2010 before he could bring himself to accepting Brewer's intended premise. Too, too bad.
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    "Well, yeah, that's just, like, your opinion, man."
    Jeffrey "The Dude" Lebowski, 1998

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    Brewer came into his KGC knowledge late in life thanks to the help of well-informed non-family members. His book was not the book he wanted, although there is some very good information in it. Most folks acknowledge that Getler did nobody any favors with his involvement. Brewer and London's "silent partner" was going to write the much-anticipated second book, including much of his own knowledge, but he died in 2010 before he could bring himself to accepting Brewer's intended premise. Too, too bad.
    Who is the silent partner? It is not London or Brewer or Getler or are you referring to Jesse James III?
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  5. #80
    mbb
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    Glad you're here mbb!

    I hear what you're saying on some of the claims people make in books. lol!

    That's actually a cheaper price on the BB than I've seen for awhile! Still too much. We will go over it here, no need to buy it.

    What is your lineage to the James Family?

    Kace
    My great great grandmother was married to a James. They were married from 1871-1879, but her husband James (Jim) James died young at age 24. They had 3 children and the story goes they had moved from McGargel, Texas to Archer City on a small ranch. She remarried in 1878 and her second marriage lasted about 57 years. However, I'd always heard that Jesse and Frank came to visit their sister Susie in Archer City and would visit my gggm as well, have chicken dinner out at the ranch. I actually remember her pretty well although I was very small. NOW, I find it most peculiar that the James boys sister decided to live in Archer City. It's not the scenic capital of Texas, but cattle country and mesquite and old red dirt. This was way before the oil boom days. Why did she and her husband Parmer (?) live there? She most certainly knew my gggm and the connection with the James brothers just can't be accidental. My gggm knew some secret or secrets she never divulged. Susan died about 1938 and is buried in Wichita Falls about 20 miles north of Archer. Her gravestone is very elaborate for the times. I wonder if Jesse's gold paid for the marker? He died ( or did he?) in 1882 three years after my gggm's first husband. So, between this story and Brewer and all the others that seem to be popping up daisies it has fostered my interest in the KGC. Unfortunately, the family no longer has the ranch. damn, I bet there's millions of gold coins out there.
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  6. #81
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    Tell him, anyway... he MAY have MORE info on "TEXAS Charley"; BTW... Darrel, (back EAST) was a JOKER! His wife, Gail, was an artist... knew 'em both, well!
    I think since you referenced it....You should contact him if you think he might have something relevent and if you take this guy as a serious researcher.

    I think he's a Joker writer like Darrell that talks about legends and obscure things folks might see off the beaten path on road trips like the Worlds Largest Pecan and Worlds Largest Ball of String...He writes for entertainment, not factual information and even says that on his blog.

    Let us know what he says....Unless it's where to find the Worlds Largest Walnut. lol!

    Kace

  7. #82
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    Kace

    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    Brewer came into his KGC knowledge late in life thanks to the help of well-informed non-family members. His book was not the book he wanted, although there is some very good information in it. Most folks acknowledge that Getler did nobody any favors with his involvement. Brewer and London's "silent partner" was going to write the much-anticipated second book, including much of his own knowledge, but he died in 2010 before he could bring himself to accepting Brewer's intended premise. Too, too bad.
    I agree with you about Gelter not helping much. Do you have a copy of the original Small book that Brewer did Before Gelter?

    Are you talking about Vickery being the silent partner?

    Kace

  8. #83
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbb View Post
    My great great grandmother was married to a James. They were married from 1871-1879, but her husband James (Jim) James died young at age 24. They had 3 children and the story goes they had moved from McGargel, Texas to Archer City on a small ranch. She remarried in 1878 and her second marriage lasted about 57 years. However, I'd always heard that Jesse and Frank came to visit their sister Susie in Archer City and would visit my gggm as well, have chicken dinner out at the ranch. I actually remember her pretty well although I was very small. NOW, I find it most peculiar that the James boys sister decided to live in Archer City. It's not the scenic capital of Texas, but cattle country and mesquite and old red dirt. This was way before the oil boom days. Why did she and her husband Parmer (?) live there? She most certainly knew my gggm and the connection with the James brothers just can't be accidental. My gggm knew some secret or secrets she never divulged. Susan died about 1938 and is buried in Wichita Falls about 20 miles north of Archer. Her gravestone is very elaborate for the times. I wonder if Jesse's gold paid for the marker? He died ( or did he?) in 1882 three years after my gggm's first husband. So, between this story and Brewer and all the others that seem to be popping up daisies it has fostered my interest in the KGC. Unfortunately, the family no longer has the ranch. damn, I bet there's millions of gold coins out there.
    Thanks mbb.... So that would have to be some possible cousins on the Robert Sallee James side from a brother/uncle of his since it's the James name. Easy enough to find out if it's the same James family.

    Susan James Parmer, sister of Frank and Jesse died in 1889. She was only 38-39yrs old. Married to Allen Parmer at the time of her passing.

    Kace

  9. #84
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    mbb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    Thanks mbb.... So that would have to be some possible cousins on the Robert Sallee James side from a brother/uncle of his since it's the James name. Easy enough to find out if it's the same James family.

    Susan James Parmer, sister of Frank and Jesse died in 1889. She was only 38-39yrs old. Married to Allen Parmer at the time of her passing.

    Kace
    Yes, my mistake. It was indeed 1889 and here's a link to her gravesite in Archer City. Jim James would have been a cousin. He was born in Arkansas and I've yet to follow the leads through Ancestry. com.
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...lavenia-parmer
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  10. #85
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbb View Post
    Yes, my mistake. It was indeed 1889 and here's a link to her gravesite in Archer City. Jim James would have been a cousin. He was born in Arkansas and I've yet to follow the leads through Ancestry. com.
    https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...lavenia-parmer

    I haven't looked extensively for quite awhile but from memory and records of RS James...He and his siblings were born in Kentucky and most, if not all of the boys came to Missouri. One brother Thomas was a Very Wealthy business owner in Kansas City. He sold his James Building in KCMO to Joyce Hall of Hallmark Card fame. Drury went on to California as did RSJ and both died there according to records...but the others stayed fairly local to KC in Missouri. Interesting tidbit is that on Find A Grave...Drury Isn't Listed as RSJ brother...But we all know that site can be manipulated, so since some people add to it or take information away from it that's not right, all the other records have to be verified.

    Now...since it's been awhile, I could of forgotten one brother...So, I'm not going to say I'm 100% right on that as far as referring to every brother. Maybe when you do your James genealogy you'd post it for us... hopefully.

    Are you referring to the Vaughn family of Arkansas claims of being the James'? I ask because I'm only speaking of the Robert Sallee James Family of Kearney, MO and when you gave the dates and said Arkansas it made me think of them.

    There are also at least two other Jesse James in this book that haven't come up yet.

    Kace
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  11. #86
    mbb
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    mbb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    I haven't looked extensively for quite awhile but from memory and records of RS James...He and his siblings were born in Kentucky and most, if not all of the boys came to Missouri. One brother Thomas was a Very Wealthy business owner in Kansas City. He sold his James Building in KCMO to Joyce Hall of Hallmark Card fame. Drury went on to California as did RSJ and both died there according to records...but the others stayed fairly local to KC in Missouri. Interesting tidbit is that on Find A Grave...Drury Isn't Listed as RSJ brother...But we all know that site can be manipulated, so since some people add to it or take information away from it that's not right, all the other records have to be verified.

    Now...since it's been awhile, I could of forgotten one brother...So, I'm not going to say I'm 100% right on that as far as referring to every brother. Maybe when you do your James genealogy you'd post it for us... hopefully.

    Are you referring to the Vaughn family of Arkansas claims of being the James'? I ask because I'm only speaking of the Robert Sallee James Family of Kearney, MO and when you gave the dates and said Arkansas it made me think of them.

    There are also at least two other Jesse James in this book that haven't come up yet.

    Kace
    Another "slight" twist in the geneology, perhaps. In my Ancestery thread so far, and I admit I have a long way to go, particularly since James was NOT blood kin. My gggm's second husband was Wiley Demoss, who is very well documented and was my gggf who died before I was born.
    Anyway, James P. James was born 29 Nov., 1853 in Arkansas (no specific local given). He died 21 Mar., 1877 in Johnson, Texas, which is basically Johnson County and the towns of Cleburne and Burleson just south of Fort Worth. Pretty heavy Confederate country in that time period. He's buried there and there's a photo of his badly worn gravestone. James P James's father is listed as Johnson James, born 14 Dec., 1832 in Hickman, Tenn. He also died a young man in Johnson, Texas, on 19 Sept. 1864, obviously during the Civil War and apparently brought the family with him. He had a boat load of kids as most families did in those days.

    I know THE James bunch was from all around Kearney, KC, St. Joe, etc. so maybe be a blind alley here. But Susan Parmer moved to Archer City and essentially died there. That sticks in my craw plus my family oral traditions.

    I'm afraid we're way off topic here and I apologize for that. I do appreciate your comments though and I don't discount them in the least.

    Question though. How is it the Find a Grave can be manipulated? Couldn't the same be said for Ancestry as well? That's a little troublesome for a serious researcher,
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    Hey LC...Was there something specific on the Ancestry page you posted for us to look at?

    Kace
    CHARLEY BIGALOW, but don't waste your time....
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    "HISTORY IS A PACK OF LIES AGREED UPON " Napoleon Bonaparte

  13. #88
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbb View Post
    Another "slight" twist in the geneology, perhaps. In my Ancestery thread so far, and I admit I have a long way to go, particularly since James was NOT blood kin. My gggm's second husband was Wiley Demoss, who is very well documented and was my gggf who died before I was born.
    Anyway, James P. James was born 29 Nov., 1853 in Arkansas (no specific local given). He died 21 Mar., 1877 in Johnson, Texas, which is basically Johnson County and the towns of Cleburne and Burleson just south of Fort Worth. Pretty heavy Confederate country in that time period. He's buried there and there's a photo of his badly worn gravestone. James P James's father is listed as Johnson James, born 14 Dec., 1832 in Hickman, Tenn. He also died a young man in Johnson, Texas, on 19 Sept. 1864, obviously during the Civil War and apparently brought the family with him. He had a boat load of kids as most families did in those days.

    I know THE James bunch was from all around Kearney, KC, St. Joe, etc. so maybe be a blind alley here. But Susan Parmer moved to Archer City and essentially died there. That sticks in my craw plus my family oral traditions.

    I'm afraid we're way off topic here and I apologize for that. I do appreciate your comments though and I don't discount them in the least.

    Question though. How is it the Find a Grave can be manipulated? Couldn't the same be said for Ancestry as well? That's a little troublesome for a serious researcher,
    mbb...As far as off topic...it's gonna happen and if folks have a connection or a possible familial history to anyone discussed in this book I hope they share it like you did. To me that's not off topic.

    With Find A Grave...Not only can it be manipulated by adding names or comments or by taking names away....It's Never been against the law or illegal anywhere to put Anything or Any Name on a Tombstone. The Only thing illegal about putting false information on anything concerning a death is if Anyone Profits from it like through life or other insurance, stocks or any investment or loan type payouts.

    Years ago, anyone could just get up one day and decide to be some other name and start going by that name, no questions asked. Walk in and get a drivers license when those came about and even join the military under that new name. I knew that but didn't realize that even Death Certificates could reflect the New name the person chose. About 10yrs ago I was looking for a woman who died in the early '60's. I couldn't find her anywhere after '61. She had bought her own stone, casket and plot under a name other than her own and got a drivers license in that name...She was 22yrs old. So, when she died a few months later her Real Name was on Nothing official like a death certificate and the New Name and photo of the stone is on Find A Grave and the Death Certificate and autopsy report is under the New Name.

    Your question about can Ancestry be manipulated?...Absolutely it can be and is. You're right it is troublesome for serious researchers who want the truth. . The only way to know for sure what's what is to verify independently what's claimed yourself using 3 different official records if possible...on each person.

    There's a lot of false claims about famous or infamous people in books and gen forums. I'm not directing this at you at all and please don't take it that way, but some people intentionally go to great lengths to be related to an actor, outlaw, well known civil war participants or very wealthy and large influential dynasty type families like Rockefeller's, Roosevelts or DuPonts by putting false info on Find A Grave and Ancestry and at some point they get found out by making outrageous claims that a serious researcher will uncover. The bad thing is, someone comes around and reads these things, not always realizing they are lies and that stuff just keeps getting repeated....like has happened from some of the books that followed the Black Book.

    Others unintentionally by hearing generational stories of course believe what their families have said, but rarely do you see them posting false information on any site. It happens but not a lot. They look into things and if there are questions in their mind about what they've heard, they research them to find out if they are true or not. That's pretty easy to do now.

    I'm interested in hearing what you find out on your history and look forward to you participating in this thread.

    Kace
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  14. #89
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.C. BAKER View Post
    CHARLEY BIGALOW, but don't waste your time....
    Gotcha...I won't look again or again or again! lol!

    Kace
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kace View Post
    Sorry for stepping out of topic here...Are there some records somewhere that state everyone that was in the KGC? I've seen where someone said All of Quantrills guys were KGC...I know that's wrong for a fact.

    I also know there's Not any written records of Jesse or Frank James being Mason's....I talked to a very knowledgeable Mason just last week who's done a lot of historical research on KGC, Outlaws, Civil War and Masonic Events during that time.

    There are No Written Records on either of them being Mason's, Not even at the Temple in DC. But, he did say that it's possible that any lodge wouldn't of wanted to advertise the fact they had been made at sight or were members of a lodge due to their outlaw notoriety. That made sense to me....Not to the point it's an Absolute without confirmation, but I could see where that might be the case. I hadn't thought of it that way.

    So with your ancestor being initiated into a military lodge on sight, was he added later to the lodge books? How does that work? Very Cool you found him there!!

    Thanks Walker,
    Kace
    Honestly, would you want this to be a poster child for your upstanding secret society made up of outstanding citzens, lawyers, judges, buisnessmen, and bankers?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    HELL NO!

    Why that would be like hiring a hitman and admitting you bought him GUNS and BULLETS

    Click image for larger version. 

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    WAS JOHN BROWN TOLD WHO TO KILL BY THE RADICAL REPUBLICANS?

    No honest upstanding political or secret society or club wants to admit what they are capable of when it comes to money!

    L.C.
    "HISTORY IS A PACK OF LIES AGREED UPON " Napoleon Bonaparte

 

 
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