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Thread: Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

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  1. #1
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    Kace

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    Jesse James Was One Of His Names...Black Book Discussion

    This thread will be discussing the Black Book by Del Schrader and Orvus Lee Houk aka Jesse James lll and comparing the claims and stories in it with Official Records.

    Kind Of A Fun Winter Project and It Will Probably Take That Long To Go Through It...If Not Longer. lol!

    Even though I started this thread, it's a joint effort with all members who have this book and records and they will be contributing to this thread from the book and records, it's very expensive to buy, so as we all go through these chapters starting with the prologue, those who don't have it, feel free to ask Any questions and if you have Records from the chapters being discussed at that time, Please post them. I know some of us have access to Official Records and Other Books that followed the BB repeating the same stuff. If this thread clears up some of the untruths and confirms some of the truths that are put out there, it's served its purpose.

    I'd personally like to see it done in order of the book and after glancing at the prologue, start there and also have it as fluid as humanly possible with this book....meaning having posts with more than just an emoji or lol type stuff. The book does backtrack some so we will have to do that too when going by chapters. I guess just see how it plays out, but it would be handy for serious researchers to have it that way are my thoughts anyway.

    KGC, Civil War Events, Outlaws, Militia, Aliases, Impostors, Impostors By Proxy, People Who Never Existed, Death Hoaxes, Treasure Legends, Businesses and Industry, Locations and Dates are all included so it covers many things.

    One book by Frank Triplett written in 1881-1882 claiming by the author to have interviewed Jesse Woodson James' wife and mother after the shooting and said he had their blessings to write and publish the book...but who both had always denied that claim is advertised for sale for between $2,500-$6,000! It's big business to write sensational stories about the James and Youngers, regardless of the truth! The fact of that particular book is that Triplett had written the book Before the 1882 shooting in St. Joseph, Missouri and was just waiting and hoping something would happen to James to rush it to publication and be the first book out about him.

    Here's A Little Background From OFFICIAL RECORDS Before The Discussion Starts Because It Gets Very Confusing Keeping Every Character In The BB Straight To Say The Least!

    Robert Sallee James and Zerelda Cole James were the parents of ALEXANDER Franklin (Frank) James, Jesse WOODSON James, Susan Lavenia James Parmer and Robert Rueben James who died in infancy. Robert and Zerelda were born in Kentucky and their 4 children were All born in Clay County, Missouri.

    Susan Lavenia James Parmer and her husband Allen Hazard Parmer had 6 children: Robert, Zelma, Allen, Sarah, Feta and an un-named child Parmer who died in infancy.

    Alexander Franklin James and his wife Ann Ralston James had One Son: Robert Franklin James who was married twice, last time to Mae Sanborn. Robert F. James had No Children with either wife.

    Jesse Woodson James and his wife, Zerelda (Zee) Mimms James had 4 children: Jesse Edwards James,Jr, Mary Susan James Barr and twin boys, Montgomery and Gould James who both died in infancy.

    Mary Susan James Barr and her husband, Henry Barr had 3 sons: Lawrence, Forster and Chester Barr along with One daughter, Henrietta Barr who died in infancy. None of the boys carried the name James as a middle name and each of them grew to adulthood.

    Jesse James,Jr and his wife Stella McGowan James had 4 Daughters: Lucille, Josephine, Estelle and Ethel Rose. They had No Sons which obviously means there was Never a Jesse James lll from the union of Jesse and Zee James Or Jesse Jr and Stella James.

    Orvus Lee Houk, Howk, Lee Haw etc who had always had a fascination with Jesse James changed his name to Jesse James lll aka Jesse Lee James For Profit by falsely claiming to be Jesse Woodson James' Grandson and is the co author of this book along with Del Schrader.

    Kace
    Last edited by Kace; Dec 13, 2018 at 01:43 AM.

  2. #2

    Jun 2007
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    TY, Kace for doing this... should be interesting!
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  3. #3
    Charter Member

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    Missouri
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    This will most likely go on for several winters!!! Should be fun. Now to the local library and see if they have a copy or if they can get a loaner copy.

  4. #4

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    Y'all GA (Go Ahead)… The BB started me on the KGC "Quest"; I read it FREE on Treasure Net... it was TOO good to be true & I KNEW it wasn't. May get to L'burg Reference Library, tomorrow. (Jones Memorial Library). Amazon has a HB for @ $ 350... I WOULDN'T buy it.
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Dec 11, 2018 at 06:59 PM.
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  5. #5
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    The CD of the book is out of stock also. I saved a copy to my computer of the CD. I gave the original copy to my partner in treasure hunting. As RebelKGC said, I knew too that it was too good to be true. But gives one something to think about and it does multiply your expectations.

  6. #6
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    Kace

    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    The CD of the book is out of stock also. I saved a copy to my computer of the CD. I gave the original copy to my partner in treasure hunting. As RebelKGC said, I knew too that it was too good to be true. But gives one something to think about and it does multiply your expectations.
    The last I heard was that the Schrader estate had put a stop to selling these any of the book and CD's. I also heard that there was another book in the works...That's Not Confirmed, but it would make sense if they did like a two box set of the original and part two to try and make more $$$.

    I think You guys are right on that book, but It's also the writers After that book who took the stories and claims, then worded them in such a way that made them more believable and folks don't realize that they came from Houk... just been tweaked, especially when some authors have Dr or Phd in their name or a reality show or documentary which to some lead credence to their tales. I get that and it's usually really good and honest people who believe in it because they can't fathom anyone so sociopathic. I get that too.

    For instance, that template that some tote around and believe, because of reading about it from another book that copied the BB...it will lead you to a Huge KGC treasure. The template originally came from Houks Imagination and he'd make one for anyone with the money to buy it from him and was a sure fire way for the uninitiated into the inner sanctum to find fabulous wealth. So far it hasn't happened.

    Anyway, if we can do this thread just on the book with its stories and claims vs. proven records we will All know what's what.

    What moreb said about checking with the local library or to see if it can be ordered in from some other library or collection is probably the best bet for getting a copy without spending a small fortune. It's Not worth several hundred dollars.

    There's 3-5 of us who have it that I know of, so even if someone doesn't have it, we can still put the context up for all to read along with everyone's records. I know franklin has access to OR/fold3 and other stuff. I do too and I know others do like Baker. We can just work together to get the information to everyone. Once this starts, Anyone can get a 14day Free Trial to Full Access Ancestry...Lots of Different Sources There, Not just Genealogy. If you've got others in your home, have them get it after yours runs out..lol!

    There's some families of notable people in that book who have done DNA along with genealogy resources so that helps on the ones who have published it. The Quantrill Society that moreb mentioned and the Confederate Descendants Groups both have a treasure trove of info.

    Uglymailman...if you see this, please participate... you've got a lot of Missouri information that is confirmed. That book does talk about the Youngers.

    I'm looking forward to discussing this book and glad you all are sharing information. I haven't finished mine so I don't even know what the last part is.

    Kace

  7. #7
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    Sep 2012
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    Is there any evidence to support the outrageous claim besides in the BB that Jesse W. James made this come about from a meeting between Henry Ford and Jesse? Inquiring minds would like to know!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Quadricycle

    Click image for larger version. 

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    L.C.
    Rebel - KGC, Kace, Simon1 and 1 others like this.
    "HISTORY IS A PACK OF LIES AGREED UPON " Napoleon Bonaparte

  8. #8

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    NOT the Henry Ford of Ford Motors Comp.
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  9. #9
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    Kace

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    Quote Originally Posted by L.C. BAKER View Post
    Is there any evidence to support the outrageous claim besides in the BB that Jesse W. James made this come about from a meeting between Henry Ford and Jesse? Inquiring minds would like to know!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Quadricycle

    Click image for larger version. 

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    L.C.
    No, Not At All. That Quadricycle was built and sold in 1896.

    I should of added Official Record Birth/Death Dates of the people I listed to my original post to compare to the book. I'll do that so we will just have the first page of this thread to refer to on them.

    Kace
    Last edited by Kace; Dec 13, 2018 at 01:51 AM.
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  10. #10
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    I do not believe if anything was done with secret KGC money, there would be any records or books kept? It could have happened if any of Houk's stories actually happened at all.
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  11. #11

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    Kace, you have a list of published Treasure Hunters, who used the BB/OLH info in error for "future" KGC caches...?
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by franklin View Post
    I do not believe if anything was done with secret KGC money, there would be any records or books kept? It could have happened if any of Houk's stories actually happened at all.
    Well, "Secret" KGC $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ COULD have started banks or INSURANCE Companies (like WOW) in the NEW "South"; YET... we are "off-topic''.
    Last edited by Rebel - KGC; Dec 13, 2018 at 08:24 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Kace

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    Official Record Vital Statistic Dates on the Robert Sallee James and Zerelda Elizabeth Cole Family of Kearney Missouri.

    Robert Sallee James-1818-1850
    Zerelda Cole James-1825-1911
    *************************
    ALEXANDER Franklin James-1843-1915
    Annie Ralston James-1853-1944
    Robert Franklin James-1877-1959
    Mae Sanborn James-1881-1974
    No Children
    *************************
    Jesse WOODSON James-1847-1882
    Zerelda (Zee) Amanda Mimms James-1845-1900
    Jesse Edwards James, Jr-1875-1951
    Mary Susan James-1879-1935
    Montgomery James-1878-1878
    Gould James-1878-1878

    Jesse Edwards James, Jr-1875-1951
    Stella Frances McGowan James-1882-1971
    Lucille Martha James Lewis-1900-1988
    Josephine Frances James Ross-1903-1964
    Estelle Jessie James Baumel-1906-1987
    Ethel Rose James Owens-1908-1991

    Mary Susan James Barr-1879-1935
    Henry Lafayette Barr-1867-1935
    Lawrence Henry Barr-1902-1984
    Forster Ray Barr-1904-1977
    Chester Arthur Barr-1907-1984
    Henrietta Barr-1913-1913
    *************************
    Susan Lavenia James Parmer-1849-1889
    Allen Hazard Parmer-1848-1927
    Robert Archie Parmer-1872-1883
    Zelma Parmer Edwards-1879-1972
    Allen Hazard Parmer-1885-1887
    Sarah Susie Kate Parmer-1886-1892
    Feta Anne Parmer Rose-1888-1978
    Infant Parmer-1889-1889
    *************************

    I realize this is duplicated in places, I added birth and death date years of ALEXANDER Franklin, Jesse WOODSON and Susan Lavinia James spouses and children and then the 8 grandchildren of JWJ in case any come up in the book and records. AFJ did not have any grandchildren.

    There have been stories by other men and women claiming to be the grandchild or great grandchild of Frank and/or Jesse James. I didn't take it to great-grandchildren, but that's easily done with these names and dates if needed.

    Kace
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  14. #14
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    Kace

    Aug 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel - KGC View Post
    Kace, you have a list of published Treasure Hunters, who used the BB/OLH info in error for "future" KGC caches...?
    I'd say the top 3 Books Copying the Black Book are from:
    Dr. Roy Rousch
    Bob Brewer
    Ron Pastore

    But there's A Lot of repeating of the claims of the BB on YouTube. America Unearthed with Wolter and then Decoded with Metzler hit on it and of course Pastore with his Kansas reality show are on there.

    Epperson and Carter along with his guests are probably the two largest online that repeat and reference the claims of the BB and large KGC Vaults.

    None of those guys or their guests have ever found a large KGC vault, but they do try and tell you how to do it. Brewer has found what he says are KGC depositories valued at $200k IN TODAYS $$$$. There was nothing saying that the caches were KGC and $200k in TODAY's VALUE isn't what I'd call a LARGE KGC Depository. A depository of $200k in gold back then, yes that would be Very large today. WOW! That would be great to find!! lol!

    Kace

  15. #15

    Jun 2007
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    TY!

 

 
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