Just How Much Did They Have to Bury?

GoDeep

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Verifiable to 100% absolute certainty that would convince the whole world it actually happened? None at all. But that's actually something as a treasure hunter myself I'm pretty happy about. Less competition. Anyways, I know people who are from families that hit a large cache. One guy had a grandfather who was dirt poor from his beginnings and suddenly became rich. It was a mystery to everyone how it happened. All his life he kept the secret. Until on his death bed he revealed to one of his sons that he had accidentally dug up a cache of gold bars while digging a fish pond. These things happen man. People are too terrified to tell anybody once they do, but it happens.

Digging up random cache's is not digging up a treasure legend (think oak island, dent's run, Nazi gold train, yamashita, lost (insert name) mine etc.
 

GoDeep

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It depends on who you believe.

EXACTLY, I never said I believe anyone. I believe in facts.

Facts are unequivocal that no gold was found. A reading on a machine is just a reading, one must dig to confirm. We ALL know those machines give a ton of false positives. The original treasure hunter confirmed he never observed a single gold bar, never dug up a single gold bar and never possessed a single gold bar. Further, he never observed the FBI dig a single gold bar or possess a single gold bar after the fact. FULL STOP.
 

GoDeep

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Finders Keepers said they were prevented from watching the excavation. They sat in their truck waiting for hours outside the operation area. The FBI eventually approached their vehicle and told them that they were going to call it a day and come back tomorrow. Finders Keepers returned the next morning only to find the FBI had packed up and vanished, leaving behind a deep empty hole. The neighbors said the FBI had actually been operating all night, then several black SUVs began backing up to the hole and driving out of there... Come on man. Come on. Is the generic FBI response to questioning really what you are going to settle on?

Edit: In reading their old posts, they did say the FBI showed them an empty hole (but filled it before leaving). This is far different then it's portrayed, its portrayed as the FBI left in the middle of the night and all the found was an empty hole. Untrue.

Please post where he said they left a deep, empty hole and a picture of it, I don't recall this (he may have, I just don't ever recall that). As I recall, he posted pics where they were digging and it was all covered back up. And for a moment we'll assume these so called witnesses observed the FBI operating at night doesn't mean anything was found, nor is it even suspicious given that since they had the area closed off, they could have just as well did it during the day. The didn't need cover of night...lol.

You have a narrative that the Gold was found, facts be damned. Peace, i'm just beating my head.
 

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tseek7

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Please post where he said they left a deep, empty hole and a picture of it, I don't recall this (he may have, I just don't ever recall that). As I recall, he posted pics where they were digging and it was all covered back up. And for a moment we'll assume these so called witnesses observed the FBI operating at night doesn't mean anything was found, nor is it even suspicious given that since they had the area closed off, they could have just as well did it during the day. The didn't need cover of night...lol.

It doesn't sound like you watched this video. But maybe you did, anyway here it is...



Maybe I was wrong about the empty hole. It could have just been the hole was filled back in. My mistake.

Well of course the FBI would need to operate after Finders Keepers had left already if they planned to take it all. Since Finders Keepers were going to wait there from sun up to sun down until being ordered to leave the area, that happened to mean operating at night.
 

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GoDeep

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...if they planned to take it all.

Take all of what? We are putting the cart before the horse. We haven't even established the Legend is true, let alone anything there, let alone gold bars...

We are literally now mixing a Legend (of buried gold) with a Conspiracy (the FBI)...you are so far down the rabbit hole now, your confirmation bias so entrenched, there's no pulling you out, I need to save myself, so i'll leave the legend to you. Peace.
 

: Michael-Robert.

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FinderKeeper(Petitioner) won their first petition case:
pdf.gif
1683CD18_10-24-19.pdf

Might have news soon on the Dents Run 6 tonnes of Gold and 2.5 tonnes of silver. Est value: 450 to 600 million dollars.

Or at lease a follow up.
 

GoDeep

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FinderKeeper(Petitioner) won their first petition case:
pdf.gif
1683CD18_10-24-19.pdf

Might have news soon on the Dents Run 6 tonnes of Gold and 2.5 tonnes of silver. Est value: 450 to 600 million dollars.

Or at lease a follow up.

Thank you for sharing this, it confirms facts, not speculative assertions that the cache had been found. Three facts that are pertinent that Finders own lawyer points out in his appeal petition:

1. The Petitioner admits that it is an "alleged civil war cache". Additionally, we know by his testimony here on these forums, that he never dug a single gold bar, nor laid eyes on a single gold bar, so he is not claiming he found it, just that he thinks it may have been buried there.

2. The object is not described as gold bars, or even gold, it is described as a "Large Metal object" Also note, that this was through a scan, it was not yet dug up. It could have been black sand, an iron ore deposit or even a false positive and after it was dug up, the FBI claimed no material was found.

3. The FBI claims that "No material was found".

Those are the facts. Is the FBI lying? It's only speculation. Was it gold, black sand, iron car frame, hot rocks etc? It's only speculation. We will have to wait. Though we may never get the full story, as it sounds like the court is going to allow an "in-camera" review (which means in private, not open to the public and often without documents allowed to be copied or removed).

Also, the case being sealed is not unusual at all. It doesn't mean anything nefarious. The FBI more often then not keeps it's cases sealed and keeps them open and ongoing, just in case more evidence is found or sensitive information is uncovered (i.e. in the case of high profile murders, organized crime etc).
 

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: Michael-Robert.

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The FinderKeeper group won 3 court cases against the FBI and 3 court cases against DCNR and now they're headed to Federal Court.

They can't say more until final adjudication.

Note: They drilled the site and saw Gold and more, with video.

Note: Cache tail/story/legend is about Gold and Silver bullion being carried North during War to a US Mint to be made into coin for Military. However could being any kind of treasure, for they were excluded from retrieval. The entire story is already on this forum. Research Dents Run and/or FinderKeeper on this forum.

And, I would now advise not to PM's them until their case is finalized. Im sure they will make it public and the papers will publish it.
 

GoDeep

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The FinderKeeper group won 3 court cases against the FBI and 3 court cases against DCNR and now they're headed to Federal Court.

They can't say more until final adjudication.

Note: They drilled the site and saw Gold and more, with video.

Note: Cache tail/story/legend is about Gold and Silver bullion being carried North during War to a US Mint to be made into coin for Military. However could being any kind of treasure, for they were excluded from retrieval. The entire story is already on this forum. Research Dents Run and/or FinderKeeper on this forum.

And, I would now advise not to PM's them until their case is finalized. Im sure they will make it public and the papers will publish it.

1. You say they can't say more until final adjudication, but this is antithetical to the petition they won on appeal. They are the ones who petitioned the court for openness and transparency by the DNR and FBI and won, so any silence and lack of transparency on their part is self imposed which is ironic to say the least.

2. Also, you say they can't say any more until final adjudication. Final adjudication of what? What did they petition the court for besides a record of the communications between the DCNR and the FBI, which they lost and then won upon appeal?

3. When you say they "won" 3 cases, what were they petitioning the court for? Saying they "won" a case opens up more speculation then Area 51. I searched and only came up with the instant case and appeal you've posted above. If you have links to other cases, we'd love to see them. I can't even find a docket record for these other 3 cases which would be public record.

4. You say they drilled the site and came up with gold and it's on video. I remember them claiming they drilled and there was gold on the bit, but no video, photo or analysis evidence was provided that confirmed any gold (there may have been video, but it didn't show any gold to the casual observer). Do you have a link to this video so we can confirm with our own eyes?
 

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Honest Samuel

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Pictures of the 50 pounds gold bars would be nice to prove that the story is true. Some of us including myself do not believe the story and the FBI did not find what was never there. But, each to their own. I agree with # 17.
 

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GoDeep

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Might have news soon on the Dents Run 6 tonnes of Gold and 2.5 tonnes of silver. Est value: 450 to 600 million dollars.[/COLOR]

This demonstrates exactly how legends grow and why they have little credibility.

First, we haven't even established gold was found. Second, now it's went from qty 52 bars at 50 lbs each to 12,000 pounds (6 tons) of gold!

To add insult to injury, we've now even added on 5,000 lbs of silver just for a little icing on the top! Might as well throw in 5000 carats of diamond and 5 tons of platinum just to really fatten up the legend!

Why don't we all sit back and wait for the official communications to be released between the FBI and the DNR as ordered by the court. It sounds like it could take a year or two. As a previous poster said, we can't put credibility in what the interested parties are saying as they are controlling the narrative and are now remaining silent, which is just ever so rich giving they were the ones demanding transparency from the DNR and FBI.
 

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tseek7

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This demonstrates exactly how legends grow and why they have little credibility.

First, we haven't even established gold was found. Second, now it's went from qty 52 bars at 50 lbs each to 12,000 pounds (6 tons) of gold!

To add insult to injury, we've now even added on 5,000 lbs of silver just for a little icing on the top! Might as well throw in 5000 carats of diamond and 5 tons of platinum just to really fatten up the legend!

Why don't we all sit back and wait for the official communications to be released between the FBI and the DNR as ordered by the court. It sounds like it could take a year or two. As a previous poster said, we can't put credibility in what the interested parties are saying as they are controlling the narrative and are now remaining silent, which is just ever so rich giving they were the ones demanding transparency from the DNR and FBI.

Both the FBI and DNR are stalling the release of the records. The FBI said it would take 4 years. That's why the group is forced to take it to federal court.

There comes a point when it becomes safe to assume something of great value probably was recovered. The neighbors heard loud machinery coming from the hill all night after the FBI told the group they were going to call it a day. Then two armored vehicles were spotted entering the operation area. The FBI closed all the roads. Now they're using every tool at their disposal to prevent the release of the records. Those things with everything else begin to paint a pretty convincing picture, to my mind. But yes, we'll have to wait and see.

The FBI has clearly been prone to abusing their power these days. Its a mystery to me why anyone would take their word for anything, especially when pertaining to giant loads of gold bullion.
 

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GoDeep

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Both the FBI and DNR are stalling the release of the records. The FBI said it would take 4 years. That's why the group is forced to take it to federal court.

Again, assumes facts not on record.

1st: In other posts, he was quoted about a year for a smaller sample and up to 4 years for the entire file. For a reference, I once did a freedom of information request on the output of nuclear power plant (I wanted to know what was in the steam it was releasing). It took TWO years to get. So there is no factual evidence anyone is stalling.

2nd: Federal court? That's been quoted so many times, people are now taking that as fact. I have seen no evidence it was brought to Federal court, the only evidence of any preceedings we have is the instant appeal which was in the Pennsylvania court off appeals, NOT federal court.
 

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GoDeep

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There comes a point when it becomes safe to assume something of great value probably was recovered.

We are far, far away from being safe to assume something, or anything of value for that matter, was recovered.
 

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tseek7

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We are far, far away from being safe to assume something or anything of value for that matter was recovered.

Why would they need to keep operating throughout the night?

Why would they need two armored vehicles?

Why would they close the roads?
 

GoDeep

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The neighbors heard loud machinery coming from the hill all night after the FBI told the group they were going to call it a day. Then two armored vehicles were spotted entering the operation area.

Re-read the eyewitness, it wasn't all night, they stated until about 2am. Just as reasonable was they were going to call it quits and they too were excited, (we as treasure hunters can relate) so some continued to dig.

Armored trucks was already called into question by previous posters in other threads. We have dozens of pictures of the site and staging area, but absent are any photo's of armored trucks. Furthermore, what does armored trucks mean? Armored cash carrying trucks, or armored assault trucks? Could they also have been mis indentified as maintenance, tool or transport trucks. Of course they could, case after case has shown time and again eye witnessing testimony is unreliable and subject to confirmation bias. One local resident, absent any direct evidence, even stated they KNEW gold was found, well, just because it had to be...

Bottom line, we need to wait for the communications between the FBI and the DNR as ordered by the appeals court. That may not be the end, it may open more avenues that need to be explored, but for now, it's the next bit of evidence we are waiting for...
 

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tseek7

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Re-read the eyewitness, it wasn't all night, they stated until about 2am. Just as reasonable was they were going to call it quits and they too were excited, (we as treasure hunters can relate) so some continued to dig.

Armored trucks was already called into question by previous posters in other threads. We have dozens of pictures of the site and staging area, but absent are any photo's of armored trucks. Furthermore, what does armored trucks mean? Armored cash carrying trucks, or armored assault trucks? Could they also have been mis indentified as maintenance, tool or transport trucks. Of course they could, case after case has shown time and again eye witnessing testimony is unreliable and subject to confirmation bias. One local resident, absent any direct evidence, even stated they KNEW gold was found, well, just because it had to be...

Bottom line, we need to wait for the communications between the FBI and the DNR as ordered by the appeals court. That may not be the end, it may open more avenues that need to be explored, but for now, it's the next bit of evidence we are waiting for...

Honestly I fear the truth may never come out of this. Why oh why didn't FindersKeepers get everything on paper. Potentially very tragic mistake indeed. :(
 

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[h=1]Pennsylvania’s Right to Know Law – Treasure Hunting[/h]
On October 24, 2019, the Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court issued a decision regarding Pennsylvania’s Right to Know Law (RTKL) and treasure hunters seeking information from the government relevant to a potential found treasure.[1] After conducting an in camera review of the requested documents, the court determined that these documents were subject to disclosure under the RTKL and ordered their production.
The petitioner, Cluck, is an attorney representing Finders Keepers, LLC, a company specializing in treasure hunting. The company believed it had found a Civil War-era cache of gold in the Dent’s Run area of Pennsylvania, so it met with the FBI and an Assistant United States Attorney in early 2018 to discuss the potential find. This purported cache, and the legend thereof, date back to the summer of 1863 when Union members were transporting 26 gold bars, each weighing 50 pounds, from West Virginia to the U.S. Mint in Philadelphia. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, this amount of gold in today’s currency would be worth $27,381,120. The legend is that these members were ambushed in transit and the gold was then lost and allegedly buried. Therefore, if the gold did exist, the federal government would continue to lay claim to it; hence why Finders Keepers met with the FBI.
The FBI then initiated an investigation and met with the company at the purported location of the cache with one of its contractors. A few months after the initial meeting, the FBI told the company that its contractor had located a large area of metal, coming in at an estimated seven to nine tons in mass. After obtaining a federal warrant, the FBI entered the state forest property in Dent’s Run with the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR) to excavate the area. The FBI claimed that it did not find anything during the excavation.
After hearing this news, Finders Keepers, through its attorney, filed a request for records with DCNR under the RTKL. Cluck sought all communications between DCNR and the FBI pertaining to the excavation of the Dent’s Run area. On October 15, 2018, DCNR denied the request, claiming an exemption from RTKL disclosure since the records had been sealed by federal court order. Accompanying DCNR’s decision was a letter from an Assistant United States Attorney stating that the FBI’s investigation was ongoing, and that all affiliated documents were under federal court seal. Undeterred, Cluck appealed DCNR’s decision to the Office of Open Records (OOR). In the appeal, DCNR’s Chief Counsel filed an affidavit indicating that she had been personally served with the federal court’s order, and that it had been filed under seal. The Chief Counsel indicated that she had been told that all communications relating to the investigation were confidential. On the basis of this affidavit, and without reviewing the federal order in question, the OOR affirmed the denial of Cluck’s request for records.
Cluck then filed an appeal with the Commonwealth Court, seeking in camera review of the federal order to determine whether the communications between DCNR and the FBI were actually exempt from disclosure under the RTKL. In camera review occurs where requested documents are produced for the court’s review, usually under seal, so the court can examine the documents to determine whether a claim of privilege or exemption is legally appropriate. DNCR complied with this request for production and the Commonwealth Court accordingly reviewed the federal order under seal.
The court recognized that the purpose of the RTKL is to “empower citizens by affording them access to information concerning the activities of their government[,]”[2] and that the RTKL operates in favor of disclosure. Ordinarily, a record is subject to disclosure unless otherwise protected by exemption, privilege, or judicial decree or order. As such, the agency attempting to deny the request bears the burden of proof to show that one of these exceptions to disclosure applies. Upon review of the order in question, the court determined that the order did not shield or otherwise bar disclosure of any communications between the FBI and DCNR regarding the excavation at Dent’s Run aside from the order itself since it had been filed under seal. The court went on to state that the order did “not provide any conceivable basis for the withholding of the requested records under the RTKL[.]”[3] Therefore, the court determined that DCNR had neglected to prove that the requested records at issue were exempt from disclosure. DCNR was then directed to produce the requested communications.
The case demonstrates that, despite the existence of a sealed federal order, the content of the judicial order itself determines whether a record requested under the RTKL is actually subject to disclosure. In other words, state agencies involved with investigations at the federal level cannot necessarily fail to disclose communications regarding such investigations merely by invoking the presence of a federal order sealing the investigation. As this decision illustrates, disclosure of the public’s records remains the “gold” standard of the Commonwealth’s Right to Know Law.
[SUB][1] Cluck v. Dep’t of Conservation & Natural Resources, No. 16 C.D. 2018 (Pa. Commw. Ct. 2019).
[/SUB][SUB][1] Id., at 5.
[/SUB][SUB][1] Id., at 6-7.[/SUB]
With contribution from Sarah Rothermel, J.D. Widener Law Commonwealth.
Posted on January 9, 2020 in Articles: Right to Know & Media Law







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GoDeep

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Thank you Finders, this court summary was also posted earlier in this thread. You won the appeal in the State Court of Pennsylvania for them to release the communications between the FBI and the DNR fall of 2019, congrats.

Have you received their communications yet, and if so, are you willing to the share them? Though we appreciate you coming in here, an update would have been deeply appreciated by all. Let's not forget a large argument for your appeal was a call for openness and transparency by the FBI and the DNR. We trust you will extend the same level of transparency you were demanding of them unto us.
 

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