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  1. #16
    us
    Oct 2005
    Northern, Michigan
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    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegas Bob
    Hi Zeb

    Actually I have thought about doing the web site regarding Kokoweef.

    There is or was a news letter being published,? I'll contact Larry and see if they are still available.?
    Great! Let me (us) know if and when a web site is made.

    Also, how actuate was the 1985 film reenactment of the background story of your site?

    Sometimes filmmakers take great artistic license.? The same group who did the filming of your story also did the Pajarito range, Cerro Ruido legion. I have often wondered where they got their information for that script? It sure was a totally different account than that which Wallace gave back in 45.

    "Everything is an anomaly" Michigan Badger

  2. #17

    Aug 2005
    121

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Hi Zeb

    It's pretty much the same.

    I can't remember all the names of the players without going into some material I have, but if I remember right the wallaces bought the whole thing from the people that ran the Crystal Cave Mining company for $5000.00 back in the 1939 or there abouts. I believe there were a total of 15 mining claims involved in the deal.

    $5000.00 back then was like a million bucks today and I hear there was a court battle over the deal because the people that owned the property never thought the wallaces could come up with that kind of money.

    The Crystal Cave Mining company was formed back in 1936

    BTW I stopped by and spoke to Larry Hahn and right now there are no bulletins available.

    And i'll consider what kind of time I have to devote to starting up a website for posting updates etc.

  3. #18
    us
    Oct 2005
    Northern, Michigan
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    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    The website would be great. It wouldn't need be elaborate. You could even use one of the free sites and just post pictures and maybe include a guestbook.

    Heck, you could probably make some sideline money selling rocks from inside the tunnel. Hey, don't laugh--I have relatives living up in Grayling, Michigan, the hometown of the famous late Fred Bear (the archery expert of the 60's), and when they torn down his old shop they sold the bricks on ebay!

    Run this by Larry :P

    I look forward to seeing your website?
    "Everything is an anomaly" Michigan Badger

  4. #19

    Aug 2005
    121

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Hi Zeb

    Rocks would be a good idea, but the feds frown on selling any thing along the lines of stalactites and stalagmites and basically anything found in a natural cave.

    Heck I could not even remove river rock from a placer mining claim I once had. In fact the good folks in the United States Forest Circus wouldn't even let me collect sugar pine cones (you know the real big ones) on the claim.

    It seems that they are afraid that you might make a dollar on something.

    Just one more freedom down the tubes.


  5. #20
    us
    Oct 2005
    Northern, Michigan
    willow stick
    6,797
    115 times
    eating

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegas Bob
    Hi Zeb

    Rocks would be a? good idea,? but the feds frown on selling any thing along the lines of stalactites and stalagmites and basically anything found in a natural cave.

    Heck I could not even remove river rock from a placer mining claim I once had.? In fact the good folks in the United States Forest Circus wouldn't even let me collect sugar pine cones (you know the real big ones) on the claim.?

    It seems that they are afraid that you might make a dollar on something.

    Just one more freedom down the tubes.
    I know what you mean, LVB, here in Michigan we have hundreds of shipwrecks littered all over the floor of Lakes Michigan and Superior. In fact, they?re not even sure how many are out there. The estimate is that only a tiny fraction have been located.

    Anyway, all Great Lakes shipwrecks are off-limits. The state will prosecute anyone caught removing artifacts from any known or unknown site. They have limitless taxpayer monies to blow on legal expenses and the poor salvors have to pay out of their own pockets. All of this in spite of the Atocha ruling.

    The thinking is, keep those shipwrecks down there at 180 to 200 ft so the ?majority? can enjoy them. Now doesn?t that make sense? The majority turns out to be a hand full of experienced wealthy divers who are capable of doing those depths. Everyone else has to view amateur poorly done videos that are almost worthless.

    Meanwhile the underwater currents are washing these ships apart more and more each day so eventually they?ll be totally lost to everyone forever!

    Well, that?s government for you.



    "Everything is an anomaly" Michigan Badger

  6. #21
    us
    Aug 2005
    Warrenton, VA
    Garrett CX II/Sovereign SX-2a Pro/Quattro
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    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Hey, Zeb,
    question has nothing to do with Kokoweef. I understand that diving on wrecks in the Great Lakes is a no-no, but what if one could buy the wreck from the legal owners or heirs, could a person or group then salvage their own ship?

    grizzly bare

  7. #22
    us
    Oct 2005
    Northern, Michigan
    willow stick
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    115 times
    eating

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly bare
    Hey, Zeb,
    question has nothing to do with Kokoweef. I understand that diving on wrecks in the Great Lakes is a no-no, but what if one could buy the wreck from the legal owners or heirs, could a person or group then salvage their own ship?

    grizzly bare
    That's a very good question.

    One major problem would be identifying the ship in the first place. The good finds are the old schooners and the lakes are hard on these. The cold water preserves them but it's the currents, etc., that rip them apart. Diving in some areas is only for the big and brave. And too, don?t overlook tribal agreements.

    If one did ones research and got a general idea of a certain ships whereabouts, then made contact with the owners to see if salvage rights are viable, well, maybe you'd have something. You?d have to check with the state and I wouldn?t envy you in having to do that. It would be a lot of work and hassle but maybe would pay off in the long run.

    Most people today have absolutely no idea how valuable these Great Lakes shipwrecks are. I personally would pay big $$$ if I knew I could buy rigging or whatever from a historic Great Lakes ship. You?ve heard of the Christmas Ship (The Rouse Simmons)? I?d love to get a piece of her. Heck, even just one of her Christmas trees. The guy who found her never realized her extreme value.

    An intact schooner (with a great story) made in the 1800's would be worth millions when used to attract business in the Great Lakes area (sometimes gold looks like wood).

    Good luck.
    "Everything is an anomaly" Michigan Badger

  8. #23
    us
    Aug 2005
    Warrenton, VA
    Garrett CX II/Sovereign SX-2a Pro/Quattro
    589
    1 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Zeb,
    Actually I was thinking in terms of one of the newer ships like a car carrier or ferry. With the way that cold water preserves stuff, some of those old autos would be worth quite a bit to the collectors who wanted to restore them. Also the container ships with household goods or hardware would be another gold mine. I would like to have some lanterns, or houseware from a 'Great Lakes" ship.

    grizzly bare

  9. #24
    us
    Oct 2005
    Northern, Michigan
    willow stick
    6,797
    115 times
    eating

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly bare
    Zeb,
    Actually I was thinking in terms of one of the newer ships like a car carrier or ferry. With the way that cold water preserves stuff, some of those old autos would be worth quite a bit to the collectors who wanted to restore them. Also the container ships with household goods or hardware would be another gold mine. I would like to have some lanterns, or houseware from a 'Great Lakes" ship.

    grizzly bare
    The 1929 S.S. Milwaukee?

    Personally I'd try for the nine French Warships reported lost on the Great Lakes in combat with the British during the French & Indian War 1755-62. One was thought to be the Le MARQUISE de VANDREUILL and another OUTOUAISE,? the names of the others are not reported.

    "Everything is an anomaly" Michigan Badger

  10. #25
    us
    Aug 2005
    Warrenton, VA
    Garrett CX II/Sovereign SX-2a Pro/Quattro
    589
    1 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Zeb, I would LOVE to be able to salvage/dive/film(Hell, just look at) those ships. Unfortunately because of the fiasco surrounding the Chincoteague/Assateague finds and the concomitant stupid ruling that makes all sovereign ships the property of the country of origin IN PERPETUITY!!!, we can NEVER legally touch those.
    (the very sad) grizzly bare

  11. #26
    us
    Oct 2005
    Northern, Michigan
    willow stick
    6,797
    115 times
    eating

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly bare
    Zeb, I would LOVE to be able to salvage/dive/film(Hell, just look at) those ships. Unfortunately because of the fiasco surrounding the Chincoteague/Assateague finds and the concomitant stupid ruling that makes all sovereign ships the property of the country of origin IN PERPETUITY!!!,? we can NEVER legally touch those.
    (the very sad) grizzly bare
    Ya I know, bummer

    But on the other hand, one can go fishing in those areas and carry ones scuba gear in the boat next to the electronic searching equipment

    It's all a matter of how bad ya want it.
    "Everything is an anomaly" Michigan Badger

  12. #27
    us
    Aug 2005
    Warrenton, VA
    Garrett CX II/Sovereign SX-2a Pro/Quattro
    589
    1 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Zeb, I'm just too tired (and lazy) right now to do proper research, but is anyone doing tourist sub dives on the Great Lakes? One of those 6 to 8 person jobs would be extra cool . Some of them have significat depth and extended under-water time. Was fortunate enough to get on one in Bahamas last year and was impressed as all get out. Operator was something of a dare-devil and we got REAL close to a couple of sunken vessels. Come to think of it, the same company had a 12 person with a grappling arm that could pick up stuff both small or fairly large.
    Now wouldn't that be a great find in a Christmas stocking this year?

    grizzly bare

  13. #28
    us
    Oct 2005
    Northern, Michigan
    willow stick
    6,797
    115 times
    eating

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by grizzly bare
    Zeb, I'm just too tired (and lazy) right now to do proper research, but is anyone doing tourist sub dives on the Great Lakes? One of those 6 to 8 person jobs would be extra cool . Some of them have significat depth and extended under-water time. Was fortunate enough to get on one in Bahamas last year and was impressed as all get out. Operator was something of a dare-devil and we got REAL close to a couple of sunken vessels. Come to think of it, the same company had a 12 person with a grappling arm that could pick up stuff both small or fairly large.
    Now wouldn't that be a great find in a Christmas stocking this year?

    grizzly bare
    I'll take a sub! Sounds like a dream come true.

    There are none that I know of operating in the Great Lakes. I guess looking at sand bottom just gets boring.

    Really, the big lakes would be a piece-o-cake to hunt but most don't bother due to all the hassle.

    Someday they'll probably bring some sort of treasure hunting sub into the lakes and find hundreds of wrecks. Then the state will make them an underwater park.
    "Everything is an anomaly" Michigan Badger

  14. #29

    Apr 2005
    colorado
    850
    1 times
    Honorable Mentions (1)

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    Does anyone know Earl P Dorr's son's name? My buddy talked at length with him 25 years ago, but cant remember his first name.
    He asked me to try and find Earl's son.
    Dano.
    Specialized Tracking, Searches, Research, Huge Treasure library.
    CZ-20  Arc-geo logger  Garret's  Tessoro's  magnetometer  Spectral Analysis
    Bloodhound tracking  Helicopter services Photography etc.

  15. #30

    Aug 2005
    121

    Re: KOKOWEEF PEAK Questions

    I located info on an Earl P Dorr Jr. once, born in the 1920 which would have made him approx. 60 when your friend talked to him.

    Which would make him 85 now, if he was in fact the person your friend talked to.

    To be honest I can't say if Dorr had a son or not.

    But then again I have met several different people who have claimed that their fathers, uncles, you name it, had worked with Earl Dorr at one time or another and each one has had thier own wild ideas and theories that did not even come close to the information left behind by Dorr.

    Hell from all the people that claim to have worked with Dorr, the Kokoweef was one popular spot.

 

 
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