Fraud on a vast scale (EP Times story)

[woof!]

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_19178698

There's a very good reason why cops and soldiers in corrupt operations love LRL's-- they don't work. You just point 'em at anyone you want to, and make the "bust", claiming that the gizmo detected something. A whole lot better than something that actually does work, and therefore doesn't share your prejudices.

--Toto

[aarthrj3811]

~Marc~
PLEASE NOTE: As the administrator, creator and owner of this site, I HAVE SEEN PEOPLE GET RIPPED OFF (defrauded) by people selling so-called "long range locators" (devices, that supposedly, can find precious metals at a distance). I HIGHLY recommend consulting a geophysicist ($100 in consulting fees could save you thousands, and you'll learn something!), before spending ONE DIME ON ANY "long range locator" . With that, I open this forum to the discussion of said devices.

Sorry woof..Wrong forum

[EE THr]

This is an interesting Government document, from the National Criminal Justice Reference Service Website, at http://www.ncjrs.gov/, which is mostly about explosives detection equipment, but also mentions LRL Fraud, in the excerpt below, as indicated by the green font color, and specifically treasure hunting LRLs, in red font color---


From time to time, there are new devices that enter the market. Most companies make reasonable claims, and their products are based on solid scientific principles. "Claims for some other devices may seem unreasonable or may not appear to be based on solid scientific principles. An old truism that continues to offer good advise is “If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is not true.” If there are any questions as to the validity of a device, caution should be used and thorough research must be performed before a purchase is made. Money can be wasted and even lives may be risked. Although there may be other types of nonoperational devices around, dowsing devices for explosives detection have emerged during the past couple of years. There is a rather large community of people around the world that believes in dowsing: the ancient practice of using forked sticks, swinging rods, and pendulums to look for underground water and other materials. These people believe that many types of materials can be located using a variety of dowsing methods. Dowsers claim that the dowsing device will respond to any buried anomalies, and years of practice are needed to use the device with discrimination (the ability to cause the device to respond to only those materials being sought). Modern dowsers have been developing various new methods to add discrimination to their devices. These new methods include molecular frequency discrimination (MFD) and harmonic induction discrimination (HID). MFD has taken the form of everything from placing a xerox copy of a Polaroid photograph of the desired material into the handle of the device, to using dowsing rods in conjunction with frequency generation electronics (function generators). None of these attempts to create devices that can detect specific materials such as explosives (or any materials for that matter) have been proven successful in controlled double-blind scientific tests. In fact, all testing of these inventions has shown these devices to perform no better than random chance.

"Mostly these devices are used to locate water and now are used extensively by treasure hunters looking for gold and silver. In recent years some makers of these dowsing devices have attempted to cross over from treasure hunting to the areas of contraband detection, search and rescue, and law enforcement.


ref: http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/178913-2.pdf

====================



No, Art, he posted it in the correct forum.

[aarthrj3811]

http://sniffexquestions.blogspot.com...-scam-but.html
a handheld device widely used by the Mexican military and police to search for drugs and explosives

Gee..What is a treasure hunting device?

[Kentucky Kache]

Here is a post that was made a few days ago:

Exactly my feelings. I feel like finding the makers at White's that make the TM-808 and kick somebody in the butt. Damn thing is about like a toy.

It seems that LRL's are not the only frauds in town.
Now, which one of you are gonna call Carl and tell him his employer is a fraud?

[EE THr]

Gee..What is a treasure hunting device?

So, you really don't know!

Thanks again.

[EE THr]

Here is a post that was made a few days ago:

Exactly my feelings. I feel like finding the makers at White's that make the TM-808 and kick somebody in the butt. Damn thing is about like a toy.

It seems that LRL's are not the only frauds in town.
Now, which one of you are gonna call Carl and tell him his employer is a fraud?

It sounds like you're willing to offer prize money if someone can get it to work within it's advertized specifications?

Just post your protocol, and make the reward worth the time and travel expenses.

[Kentucky Kache]

Here is a post that was made a few days ago:

Exactly my feelings. I feel like finding the makers at White's that make the TM-808 and kick somebody in the butt. Damn thing is about like a toy.

It seems that LRL's are not the only frauds in town.
Now, which one of you are gonna call Carl and tell him his employer is a fraud?

It sounds like you're willing to offer prize money if someone can get it to work within it's advertized specifications?

Just post your protocol, and make the reward worth the time and travel expenses.

Not me. I just posted about someone elses experience. But since you spoke first, I assume you're the one who will contact Carl. While you have his ear, if he assures you that this machine works, EXACTLY AS ADVERTIZED, then you could ask if he is willing to offer his prize money if someone can prove it doesn't. I wonder how sure he would be.

[Ted Groves]

http://www.elpasotimes.com/news/ci_19178698

There's a very good reason why cops and soldiers in corrupt operations love LRL's-- they don't work. You just point 'em at anyone you want to, and make the "bust", claiming that the gizmo detected something. A whole lot better than something that actually does work, and therefore doesn't share your prejudices.

--Toto

Spot on, Toto. That is exactly why the Quadro Tracker was used in school systems when it first came out (before it was discovered to be a scam LRL and removed from sale). They could walk up and down the hallways of a school, and when the operator suspected something amiss in a certain locker, the Tracker would lock in on it; and that gave them an excuse to open the locker and do their search.

Worked every time.... to open the locker, that is.

[aarthrj3811]

Thank you Ted and EE for again bringing up theories that have crashed and burned on this forum before. Repeating them will not make them a fact...What’s next Ted? Are you going to tell us we are murders again?...Art

[EE THr]

Here is a post that was made a few days ago:

Exactly my feelings. I feel like finding the makers at White's that make the TM-808 and kick somebody in the butt. Damn thing is about like a toy.

It seems that LRL's are not the only frauds in town.
Now, which one of you are gonna call Carl and tell him his employer is a fraud?

It sounds like you're willing to offer prize money if someone can get it to work within it's advertized specifications?

Just post your protocol, and make the reward worth the time and travel expenses.

Not me. I just posted about someone elses experience.

Someone else's alleged experience. Wow, not even your own alleged experience. And you want the World to stop, and everyone take notice of that? Not even a good try.

But since you spoke first, I assume you're the one who will contact Carl.

Your assumption is incorrect. Nobody is going to contact anyone, over your statement.

While you have his ear, if he assures you that this machine works, EXACTLY AS ADVERTIZED, then you could ask if he is willing to offer his prize money if someone can prove it doesn't. I wonder how sure he would be.

You will have to keep on wondering. That's not how things work. That they work, is proven every time they build one. It's called "Test & Calibration." Every electronics instrument goes through it, to make sure it was assembled correctly, and there were no defective parts, and so forth.

You made the statement that they don't work right. It's up to you to prove your claim. And as usual for the LRL promoters, you are now trying to reverse the responsibility. I've read enough reviews of various "two-box" detectors to know that your statement is incorrect.

You merely tried to change the subject away from the obvious fraud of LRLs. It didn't work.

But it does prove that you are an LRL promoter. So thanks for that!

[Kentucky Kache]

Here is a post that was made a few days ago:

Exactly my feelings. I feel like finding the makers at White's that make the TM-808 and kick somebody in the butt. Damn thing is about like a toy.

It seems that LRL's are not the only frauds in town.
Now, which one of you are gonna call Carl and tell him his employer is a fraud?

It sounds like you're willing to offer prize money if someone can get it to work within it's advertized specifications?

Just post your protocol, and make the reward worth the time and travel expenses.

Not me. I just posted about someone elses experience.

Someone else's alleged experience. Wow, not even your own alleged experience. And you want the World to stop, and everyone take notice of that? Not even a good try.

But since you spoke first, I assume you're the one who will contact Carl.

Your assumption is incorrect. Nobody is going to contact anyone, over your statement.

While you have his ear, if he assures you that this machine works, EXACTLY AS ADVERTIZED, then you could ask if he is willing to offer his prize money if someone can prove it doesn't. I wonder how sure he would be.

You will have to keep on wondering. That's not how things work. That they work, is proven every time they build one. It's called "Test & Calibration." Every electronics instrument goes through it, to make sure it was assembled correctly, and there were no defective parts, and so forth.

You made the statement that they don't work right. It's up to you to prove your claim. And as usual for the LRL promoters, you are now trying to reverse the responsibility. I've read enough reviews of various "two-box" detectors to know that your statement is incorrect.

You merely tried to change the subject away from the obvious fraud of LRLs. It didn't work.

But it does prove that you are an LRL promoter. So thanks for that!

I love it when you guys stumble, not knowing what to say. Really, you need to give it a little more thought.

You say I'm relying on someone elses experience, and then you say that YOU'VE read enough reviews on two boxes to know they are good. Why are the standards different for you than they are for me?

Don't be so scared, I don't really expect you to call Carl. That's what someone would do if they were concerned over fraud. OBTW, a product that doesn't work AS ADVERTIZED is a form of fraud.

You will have to keep on wondering. That's not how things work. That they work, is proven every time they build one. It's called "Test & Calibration." Every electronics instrument goes through it, to make sure it was assembled correctly, and there were no defective parts, and so forth.

I know that's not how it works. And that is because this is not about fraud and being concerned over poor Innocent people getting duped out of their money. If it were, you would be kicking against the Whit's two box. Yes, they work, but according to at least one user here, they don't work as advertised, and that would be fraud.

You made the statement that they don't work right. It's up to you to prove your claim. And as usual for the LRL promoters, you are now trying to reverse the responsibility. I've read enough reviews of various "two-box" detectors to know that your statement is incorrect.

Wrong. The guy I quoted made the above statement. I was just passing along information, sort of like you guys do about fraudulent LRL's. Wouldn't want anyone getting suckered, would we.

You merely tried to change the subject away from the obvious fraud of LRLs. It didn't work.

On the contrary. I'm joining you guys in an effort to stomp out fraudulent treasure hunting devices across this country. Today the country, tomorrow the world. Don't be so quick to say it didn't work...no telling how much we'll achieve if we stick to our guns.

[EddieR]

KK...you never fail to put a on my face....

[hung]

Hey KK,
Don't expect Carl to show up here soon, besides being badmouthing TNET on his own forum at this very moment, he is also trying to convince Mike to participate his nonsense test (uhhh...again!).

As for the TM808 or whatever that thing might do or not do, what I really don't understand is this... If Minelab is sueing whites for some stolen industrial secret, why the above device is so bad?
I am all ears.

[EE THr]

On the contrary. I'm joining you guys in an effort to stomp out fraudulent treasure hunting devices across this country. Today the country, tomorrow the world. Don't be so quick to say it didn't work...no telling how much we'll achieve if we stick to our guns.

So, what advertised specification did it allegedly fail to accomplish?

[aarthrj3811]

~EE~

So, what advertised specification did it allegedly fail to accomplish?

If you owned one you would know about the flaws...Art

[Kentucky Kache]

KK...you never fail to put a on my face....

I aims to please.

As for the TM808 or whatever that thing might do or not do, what I really don't understand is this... If Minelab is sueing whites for some stolen industrial secret, why the above device is so bad?
I am all ears.

I really don't know. The only thing is, some of White's machines seem to be now on the slab, along with LRL's. I hate that, as I am a White's user. Never tried their two box though.
According to the LRL bashers, any machine can make money on sales, working or not. So I guess that would explain the lawsuite.

[Kentucky Kache]

On the contrary. I'm joining you guys in an effort to stomp out fraudulent treasure hunting devices across this country. Today the country, tomorrow the world. Don't be so quick to say it didn't work...no telling how much we'll achieve if we stick to our guns.

So, what advertised specification did it allegedly fail to accomplish?

Ask the guy I quoted. You know, the ones with experience.

[EE THr]

On the contrary. I'm joining you guys in an effort to stomp out fraudulent treasure hunting devices across this country. Today the country, tomorrow the world. Don't be so quick to say it didn't work...no telling how much we'll achieve if we stick to our guns.

So, what advertised specification did it allegedly fail to accomplish?

Ask the guy I quoted. You know, the ones with experience.

I think you just made the whole thing up.

[Kentucky Kache]

On the contrary. I'm joining you guys in an effort to stomp out fraudulent treasure hunting devices across this country. Today the country, tomorrow the world. Don't be so quick to say it didn't work...no telling how much we'll achieve if we stick to our guns.

So, what advertised specification did it allegedly fail to accomplish?

Ask the guy I quoted. You know, the ones with experience.

I think you just made the whole thing up.

Looks like we have a whole new burdon of proof thing going here. Go.