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Thread: NON-ELECTRONIC LRL

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  1. #16
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2006
    Orlando, Fl
    Minelab_Equinox_ 800 Minelab_CTX-3030 Minelab_Excal_1000 Minelab_Sovereign_GT Minelab_Safari Minelab_ETrac Whites_Beach_Hunter_ID Fisher_1235_X
    36,591
    27813 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    PLEASE READ OUR RULES. CLICK HERE TO READ ------> TreasureNet.com Rules

    2nd Amendment
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war!

    USAF 1967-1971

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

    No Expiration Date!

  2. #17

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    12,348
    8600 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Treasure_Hunter View Post
    Ooops, is this forum also only for proponents ? If so, I will not chime in here.

  3. #18
    us
    Jan 2012
    Haines City, FL
    400
    215 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Tom, I try to stick to the facts. I can't rationalize, because I don't know how it works, just what it does, and does not do in tests, and under the conditions in which I have tested. I will leave it to Carl, and the pretender experts to do the rationalizing. Thank you for understanding.

    The X-Scan, has no electronics whatsoever. It is a 100% Physics application.The Laser, is merely an experiment which visually points to within a few inches of the target, and "appears" to better define the outline and size of the target "field". I have no idea why the latter "appears" to be happening so I cannot rationalize this effect However, I will continue with experiments and tests along this line to hopefully learn more

    I assume the Critics will agree with me that the definition of Dowsing, is better defined as "meta-physics (unknown physics). A mental, sub-conscious act where the movement of the L-Rods, or pendulum, is created by a mentally trained Ideomotor muscle response, not to be confused with known laws of physics?

    Scientist who have studied this subject have concluded that all humans are Psychic, on a sub-conscious level, which would explain the ability to learn to Dowse.

    I can understand the reason for skepticism, and criticism when so many Dowsers, unwittingly cause confusion by intertwining physics, with meta-physics, and defining it all as mental Dowsing, without making any distinction.

    The X-Scan, would be extremely difficult to control with a mental Ideomotor Dowsing response. Dell
    Last edited by Dell Winders; Apr 21, 2017 at 05:31 PM.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.

  4. #19
    us
    Jan 2012
    Haines City, FL
    400
    215 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Open minded Skeptics, without an agenda are welcomed. In the past, when I was building LRL's for the market, Skeptics, made for my very best and loyal customers. Dell

  5. #20
    Charter Member
    us
    Jul 2006
    Orlando, Fl
    Minelab_Equinox_ 800 Minelab_CTX-3030 Minelab_Excal_1000 Minelab_Sovereign_GT Minelab_Safari Minelab_ETrac Whites_Beach_Hunter_ID Fisher_1235_X
    36,591
    27813 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Ooops, is this forum also only for proponents ? If so, I will not chime in here.
    As long as it is done by the rules no objection, when mocking, attacking, insulting enter the threads then it becomes a problem. This is the LRL forum and they have a right to post with out being mocked.
    Dell Winders and Tom_in_CA like this.
    PLEASE READ OUR RULES. CLICK HERE TO READ ------> TreasureNet.com Rules

    2nd Amendment
    "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed"

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war!

    USAF 1967-1971

    I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..."

    No Expiration Date!

  6. #21

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    12,348
    8600 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    because I don't know how it works, ...

    So is it safe to call this "Un-discovered" science then ? In-so-far as I'm assuming there is an explanation for the results, that are not supernatural in basis. Ie.: there is some "attraction" or "signal" that causes it ultimately to work , right ? Albeit "unknown science" of how it actually works.

    Just seeing if I understand you correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Treasure_Hunter View Post
    ... with out being mocked.
    And I am assuming this question to Dell is not "mocking". I was very careful to word it.
    Last edited by Tom_in_CA; Apr 21, 2017 at 07:48 PM.

  7. #22
    us
    Jan 2012
    Haines City, FL
    400
    215 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    The science behind it appears to be well known. My application may be slightly different than other uses. For one thing, it is too simple. No patent could be acquired unless it is enhanced and complicated with electronics. There is no scientific interest that I know of probably because there are no investors no grants, and no money to be made in it's present state. You are among the first to even hear about it. Without knowing me, it's unlikely you, or anyone would take a serious interest in it.

    I will restate my belief that, with the addition of electronics, and imaging software this simple premise will be the basis of all Remote sensing, long range, Geophysical instruments of the future. Dell
    Last edited by Dell Winders; Apr 21, 2017 at 08:19 PM.

  8. #23

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    12,348
    8600 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    The science behind it appears to be well known. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    ....For one thing, it is too simple....

    I'm a little confused. In the quote from your previous post, you clearly said : "I don't know how it works" (refer to your post #18). Now you're saying the way it works is "well known" and "simple" ? Which is it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    ..... My application may be slightly different than other uses. ....
    Ahhh, so let's clarify then: The other applications are "simple" and the science is "known", right ? But not for *your* application. Right ? Can we therefore say that your application is "un-discovered science" then ? After all:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    .... with the addition of electronics, and imaging software this simple premise will be the basis of all Remote sensing, long range, Geophysical instruments of the future. Dell
    All the terms in bold above, distinctly imply there is something physical and scientific going on. Thus can we call it "un-discovered" science ? Or if its science that others understand, but perhaps not you (in the same way I probably couldn't explain how my metal detector works), can you link to where the science of your instrument is explained ? Thanx.

  9. #24
    us
    Jun 2006
    Out in the hills near wherendaheckarwe
    WHITES, MINELAB, Garrett
    3,884
    2233 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom_in_CA View Post
    Ooops, is this forum also only for proponents ? If so, I will not chime in here.
    Didn't take long for Sheldon (the Big Bang Theory) er ah Tom to show up did it?

    Please keep going Dell the rest of us are interested!
    I know it's here, just need a bigger coil!

    I think I know what my last words will be....
    "Hold my beer and watch this!"

  10. #25
    us
    Jan 2012
    Haines City, FL
    400
    215 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Tom, by the way you redefine my words, I will agree with you about your confusion problem. I don't wish to be a cause of any more of your confusion, so I will end my discussion with you now, and wish you success in resolving your confusion problems. Dell
    boogeyman likes this.

  11. #26

    Mar 2007
    Salinas, CA
    Explorer II, Compass 77b, Tesoro shadow X2
    12,348
    8600 times
    Banner Finds (4)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    Tom, by the way you redefine my words, ....
    This is the typical come-back line when someone is caught in a contradiction, eh ? They will say something like: "What I said was such & such. But what I MEANT was such & such". Even though the 2 things can be totally contradictory. It absolves them of having to explain or defend any illogical point to their assertions.

    But that's fine. I expected as such. We will end this conversation, and then you won't need to be accountable . PS: Have you ever googled your own name ? It was very interesting.
    Last edited by Tom_in_CA; Apr 22, 2017 at 12:26 PM.
    TerryC likes this.

  12. #27
    Charter Member
    us
    Come out from under your bed today...... DO SOMETHING!

    Jun 2008
    Yarnell, AZ
    Ace 250 (2), Gold Bug 2, Tesoro Cortes, Garrett Sea Hunter, Whites TDI SL SE, Fisher Impulse 8, Falcon MD20, Garrett pinpointer.
    6,213
    5697 times
    Metal Detecting
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    Tom, I try to stick to the facts. I can't rationalize, because I don't know how it works, just what it does, and does not do in tests, and under the conditions in which I have tested. I will leave it to Carl, and the pretender experts to do the rationalizing. Thank you for understanding.

    The X-Scan, has no electronics whatsoever. It is a 100% Physics application.The Laser, is merely an experiment which visually points to within a few inches of the target, and "appears" to better define the outline and size of the target "field". I have no idea why the latter "appears" to be happening so I cannot rationalize this effect However, I will continue with experiments and tests along this line to hopefully learn more

    I assume the Critics will agree with me that the definition of Dowsing, is better defined as "meta-physics (unknown physics). A mental, sub-conscious act where the movement of the L-Rods, or pendulum, is created by a mentally trained Ideomotor muscle response, not to be confused with known laws of physics?

    Scientist who have studied this subject have concluded that all humans are Psychic, on a sub-conscious level, which would explain the ability to learn to Dowse.

    I can understand the reason for skepticism, and criticism when so many Dowsers, unwittingly cause confusion by intertwining physics, with meta-physics, and defining it all as mental Dowsing, without making any distinction.

    The X-Scan, would be extremely difficult to control with a mental Ideomotor Dowsing response. Dell
    I have a neighbor who firmly believes in dowsing yet he is constantly asking me to check his property/rocks with my metal detector for gold. Hmm. He also has shown me an area his dowsing says has BILLIONS in gold. The area is BLM so he would have no private permission problems. He says he hasn't dug for the gold because it would cost millions. WOW! Spending millions to get billions should be a no brainer. Why is he having problems getting investors to fund such a profitable venture if dowsing is so "proven"? ╦╦Ç
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you’re not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. ‘Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That’s just the way it is. – Josey Wales

  13. #28
    Charter Member
    us
    Come out from under your bed today...... DO SOMETHING!

    Jun 2008
    Yarnell, AZ
    Ace 250 (2), Gold Bug 2, Tesoro Cortes, Garrett Sea Hunter, Whites TDI SL SE, Fisher Impulse 8, Falcon MD20, Garrett pinpointer.
    6,213
    5697 times
    Metal Detecting
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    Open minded Skeptics, without an agenda are welcomed. In the past, when I was building LRL's for the market, Skeptics, made for my very best and loyal customers. Dell
    Ok, Dell, I'm a skeptic. You don't have to show me HOW one of your market LRLs works, just show me results. Show me the machine's abilities (capabilities) as touted in your advertising. Allow me to video capture the results. SELL me on your product and I will buy one. If you automatically label me a close-minded skeptic, I will understand. Yes, I will understand. ╦╦Ç
    Last edited by TerryC; Jun 05, 2017 at 08:02 PM.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you’re not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. ‘Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That’s just the way it is. – Josey Wales

  14. #29
    us
    Jan 2012
    Haines City, FL
    400
    215 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    TERRY C, the X-Scan article is an FYI, I submitted and is an accurate statement to the best of what I have learned so far about this application of Physics. It is NOT an advertisement. On the photo, and at the beginning of the article I clearly stated, "Experimental" , The X-SCAN, IS NOT FOR SALE, that is a fact.. I shared my information truthfully and in good faith. It matters not to me as to whether you wish to accept, or reject, the information I have shared with this forum. Dell

  15. #30
    Charter Member
    us
    Come out from under your bed today...... DO SOMETHING!

    Jun 2008
    Yarnell, AZ
    Ace 250 (2), Gold Bug 2, Tesoro Cortes, Garrett Sea Hunter, Whites TDI SL SE, Fisher Impulse 8, Falcon MD20, Garrett pinpointer.
    6,213
    5697 times
    Metal Detecting
    Honorable Mentions (1)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dell Winders View Post
    TERRY C, the X-Scan article is an FYI, I submitted and is an accurate statement to the best of what I have learned so far about this application of Physics. It is NOT an advertisement. On the photo, and at the beginning of the article I clearly stated, "Experimental" , The X-SCAN, IS NOT FOR SALE, that is a fact.. I shared my information truthfully and in good faith. It matters not to me as to whether you wish to accept, or reject, the information I have shared with this forum. Dell
    Dell, Forgive me for singling you out. That was not my intention. I am not accepting claims or rejecting claims of these sellers of LRLs. I have been with this forum from back to the original owners. I again "re-upped" with the present owners in '08. I don't remember when I started perusing this particular forum. Geology.... is theory. Astronomy is also pretty much conjecture. Fact... scientists have debunked LRLs in you guys' present form. Scientists, both private and government, have debunked dowsing, yet your groups have (in summary) said, "Screw science, you "gotta believe" to get it to work. I have read this forum for years yet, other than subjective testimonials, I have never heard of one of you following a double blind test to a positive fruition. If I missed anything, enlighten me. ╦╦Ç
    Last edited by TerryC; Jun 06, 2017 at 02:41 AM.
    Tom_in_CA likes this.
    Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you’re not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. ‘Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win. That’s just the way it is. – Josey Wales

 

 
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