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  1. #16
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,311
    2679 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    OOPs, sorry I had forgotten the remains of an arrastra at the head of the Tayopa Canyon where the father of a school teacher had worked for a while. He had made enough so that he never had to return. Soooo, the gold did continue up the Tayopa canyon. The remains of the large arrastra are now hidden under the overburden in the Arroyo, but were still visible when I first went to Tayopa.

    The school teacher showed up while I was there with a map from his father. He took one look at the country and went back to his school.

    It still fits the basic description of the LAD, he he he. How many others also do?

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  2. #17
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1167 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellie Baba
    .... As for the 'Adams 1880' carving? Where did this reference that 'he' actually carved this come from?
    [Strictly speculation on my part, based on the fact that Adams several times began his later searches from Pinos Altos, NM.]

    Based on what fact? I must have misunderstood or missed something about Mr. Adams. Do we know his first name, place of birth, death, was he Union, Johnny Reb, scout or a figment of someones imagination? Please correct me if I am wrong for as far as I know there is no documented truth that the man even existed. Sure, some have written of his existence, but it is all hearsay. Who in the heck has any information concerning the real man, Mr. Adams?

    I do not believe that Mr. Adams (who ever he was) ever had a ledge to loose in the first place.

    Thanks in advance for any info.
    You raise a valid point about Adams - all we know about him is either hearsay or speculation. We know that someone identifying himself as 'Adams' told detailed, but wildly inconsistent versions of the legendary lost mine to a number of people in the latter part of the 19th century. These tales were heard by hundreds or thousands who took up the search based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

    My opinion is that there was indeed a man calling himself Adams who initiated the stories. My strongest 'evidence' is a private memoir provided to me by the family of Col. JW Fleming, a mining man and city father of Silver City, NM, who met Adams in San Diego in 1886 and received the lost mine story at that time directly from Adams himself. The hand-typed memoir relates certain details of the legend (starting point, number of men, terrain description, rescue fort, etc.) from which Fleming draws his own conclusions as to where the diggings might be located. Other historical people who Adams dealt with earlier and later than 1886 were also mentioned in the memoir. Whether or not the story Adams told Fleming has any merit is open to debate, but I am convinced that a man claiming to be Adams did exist.

    In my opinion, the most intriguing player in this legend was Jacob Snively, a man whose life has been definitely linked to military activities in the Republic of Texas, guerrila raiding on the Santa Fe Trail, the discovery of placer gold and the founding of Pinos Altos, NM, the discovery of placer gold and the founding of Gila City, AZ, and his close association with Arizona's well-known Jack Swilling. Snively was killed by Apaches in 1878 in Arizona. Another of Snively's remarkable placer gold discoveries allegedly occured in the 1860's 'north of Pinos Altos' that has never been identified but may have provided him with up to sixty pounds of placer. Some have speculated that Snively may have been the 'Dutchman' from the Adams legends and this may have been the source of the placer.

    My working model: some event involving gold sparked the Lost Adams Diggings legends. Jacob Snively was involved. The man calling himself Adams may or may not have been involved.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  3. #18
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,763
    1831 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Hola amigos,

    Don Jose' - ok, I will bite. Here is my first problem with Tayopa as the LAD. Describe the route from the Pima villages on the Gila river, to Tayopa, and explain how this could be so mistaken for traveling NE? <Drawing the route on a map will do as well as a description.> Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  4. #19
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,311
    2679 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Morning my tea drinking friend Oro.

    A) As I mentioned, I do not believe that Tayopa in any way, is or hosts either the LAD or El Naranjal. It is just my way of pointing out how easily the basic descriptions of either can be adapted to other locations. This can apply to Tayopa itself naturally. 'You' will have to find El Naranjal and the LAD.

    As for directions in those days, not all were unfailing navigators. Many went entirely by" go up this canyon until you see such and such, go left for three days, then upon reaching this 'X', follow the rising sun until you come to 3 peaks . Align them up then follow the setting Sun and in 4 days it will led you directly to the box canyon".

    You are well versed in the Calif gold rush days, where the directions were 'go up the south fork of the eastern fork to the north fork of the third junction, one day up this will take you to the new strike".

    In other words they were not compass orientated, but by the physical configurations of the land.

    Regarding the LAD it is up to you which version that you wish to follow.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________

    B) You posted --> explain how this could be so mistaken for traveling NE?
    *********

    May I refer you to the widely accepted document which states . 'From the Sierra de La Campana, on the 7 th March, the sun will be setting directly over Tayopa. 10 days travel will bring you to Tayopa'.

    A line to the setting Sun from the Sierra de La Campana on that date passes just slightly south of Ocampa and directly over Tayopa. It is in a 'South Western' direction, which obviously means that the Campana lies to the North of Tayopa.

    Yet, some very prominent and qualified seekers after Tayopa have managed to show that it passes over the Guaynopa area. This is a classic illustration of how facts can be modified to fit a preconceived idea or belief.

    Is it possible that the LAD data was modified this way also?

    If you wish I will post the map showing the Tayopa / Camapana modificaton.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    p.s. Tayopa is tayopa, the LAD is the lad, and el Naranjal is El naranjal, and never shall the trio meet.
    The LAD and El Naranjal are still up for grabs.
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #20
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,763
    1831 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Hola amigo Don Jose de la Mancha,

    Thank you, though I am left wondering. The general NE direction as recalled by Adams, may have been off a bit. I am guessing at this part but how did Adams judge his direction? I found no mention of any compass, so have to conclude he was judging by the Sun, which can be a little misleading if one does not take into consideration that the Sun does not rise directly east nor set directly west, a fellow can be off by more than a few degrees. This is much more marked (error) the farther North one goes, but even at 30 degrees latitude it is noticeable.

    Who can say exactly where El Naranjal and the LAD are? Perhaps they are not so far apart geographically?
    Oroblanco

    PS I still love those pix amigo!
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  6. #21
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,311
    2679 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    I suppose that I will have to clear up the LDM , LAD, Vainopa and Naranjal since you all are doing such a poor job. Which do you prefer that I finish first?

    Don Jose de la Mancha

    p.s. As for Adams, remember most of a psychiatrists work is in recovering improperly stored, or forgotten memories or experiences.

    A) Adams had a very bad experience, did he subconsciously block it out or change it in order to not to have face the location and experience again? what could be easier than just forgetting the proper direction to go?

    Don Jose de le Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  7. #22
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,763
    1831 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Don Jose wrote
    As for Adams, remember most of a psychiatrists work is in recovering improperly stored, or forgotten memories or experiences.

    A) Adams had a very bad experience, did he subconsciously block it out or change it in order to not to have face the location and experience again? what could be easier than just forgetting the proper direction to go?
    Fleeing in terror, straight-line across country, perhaps at night, is not a great way to familiarize one's self with the terrain. <What McManus defined as "Full Bore Linear Panic" as opposed to the safer "Modified Stationary Panic" mode. > The lone survivor of the Lost Cabin (Wyoming) did this, running away at night and traveling by night for the next three days time, and yet he seemed confident that he would be able to return to the mine. You may have it right, perhaps it is psychologically rooted so Adams could not return?
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  8. #23
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,311
    2679 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Morning ORO mi buddy: Yes it could be just that simple and explain many things. Welcome to the Tayopa / Adams area. heheheh

    Seriously, it could be why that area has been combed and recombed since that time period without finding any signs, then again ??

    Tayopa is another story, simpler, just trying to fit Tayopa to too many preconceived ideas.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  9. #24
    us
    May 2007
    Western Colorado
    5,871
    44 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    My friends,
    I am at the very least speculating here, but I have noted that many, if not most of the lost diggins stories from most of the lost mines fit this genera. Even many of the known locations of Spanish diggings.
    All seem to fall into the same type of unaccessable landscape etc.
    "Everybody dies"
    "But not everybody lives."

  10. #25
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1167 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Dog
    My friends,
    I am at the very least speculating here, but I have noted that many, if not most of the lost diggins stories from most of the lost mines fit this genera. Even many of the known locations of Spanish diggings.
    All seem to fall into the same type of unaccessable landscape etc.
    Yeah, funny that. And, even funnier - with all the foot traffic pounding the west for the past 400 years, there's not much inaccessable terrain remaining, especially for the serious seekers over the years. You don't suppose there's something amiss with the 'lost diggings' stories themselves do you? At least those tales that have been fed to us.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  11. #26
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,311
    2679 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Good evening Ladies & Gentlemen: Once you experience some of that country you would no longer have any doubts as to why many of them are never found.

    Most of the lost mines, surprise, are found in broken up, mineralized zones, the very areas that you do not develop cities or even towns in. Temp mining camps, yes.

    Also most hunters probably wouldn't recognize a lost Spanish mine if they sat down in front of it to eat their lunch. The majority of Spanish mines look like cracks or small faults, they do not have nice big portals, nor have pretty tailings. Any tailings the have long ago been washed away or are under multi ft of arroyo overburden

    Some examples as to why a tremendous amount of country hasn't actually been explored adequately. In these examples are several old spanish mines, have fun.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  12. #27
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1167 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Don Jose de La Mancha,
    The North American Southwest, being politically stable and reasonably accessable to any ardent searcher the past 130 years following the demise of the 'free' Apache, should certainly have yielded a solution to the mega-placer deposit known as the 'Lost Adams Diggings'. Thousands of motivated searchers have methodically tested every drainage in eastern Arizona and western New Mexico, and even though a number of claims of discovery of the diggings have been made, none have offered any convincing proof other than a location that 'fit the landmarks'. Of course, such diggings may never have existed as described in the first place, or if they did, were greatly exaggerated, or were completely worked out by later prospectors. Other than the suspected presence of Jacob Snively in the mix of things, it would be easy to dismiss the whole shebang as whiskey talk gone wild.

    That Sonora/Chihuahua barranca country of the Sierra Madre is a completely different story. There's lots of that obscure terrain that could obviously still hold any number of secrets. You've posted long-distance photos of that wilderness area several times all over TNet. They're impressive pictures for sure, but question: why haven't you ever posted photos of the 'Spanish mine' discoveries you've made down there? Pictures of an adit, a dump, an interior shot of the vein material, some of the ore, old tools, etc. would be very interesting.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  13. #28
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,311
    2679 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Good afternoon Springfield my friend:

    First) regarding the Adams thingie, may I refer you to two previous posts in this thread # 20 & @ 21.

    In other words the Adams diggings may well have been south rather than north, and are actually in Mexico. This can easiy explain why it has never been found, especially with today's sat coverage.

    Perhaps it is actually in the Tayopa zone as was once mentioned with a tongue in cheek post.

    Second) Regarding pictures of the Tayopa entrance, they are both still closed and will remain so until I actually receive the permits, I am in no hurry. It is rather an after climax thingie in any event since I have no plans to work it.
    __________________________________________________ _________________________________

    The following is a cut and paste from Shipwrecks posted today.

    Q) Re: Sailors' skeletons from Nelson's navy among thousands at Haslar...
    Reply To This Topic #22 Posted Yesterday at 09:57:59 PM Quote

    Hello Don de la Mancha. There are others at Thunting.com that doubt that you even found Tayopa since you refuse to bring anything out from the mines. They say that they have a permit for mining and treasure within six months and yet you have been waiting for years to recover anything from Tayopa. I don't care either way but I would really like to see what is in that cave before I die. I thought you would feel the same way. Now, these guys are starting to doubt if you actually found Tayopa or not. Bring the artifacts out so we can see and enjoy them OR quit claiming you found Tayopa.



    A) Re: Sailors' skeletons from Nelson's navy among thousands at Haslar...
    Reply To This Topic #24 Posted Today at 02:25:15 PM Quote Modify Remove

    Good morning my friend Salvor: You posted -->There are others at Thunting.com that doubt that you even found Tayopa since you refuse to bring anything out from the mines.
    *************
    Frankly I don't doubt it, in fact I am a bit surprised that they haven't voiced this before. However Tayopa isn't just another mine. As far as Titles go, that I already have.

    But remember that Tayopa comes under various other laws rather than just mining. It requires permits from at least 4 other departments, Antiquities, National treasures, State treasures, Archaeological treasures, etc. etc., most of whom are fighting among themselves for power and recognition. With out them, once it is openly established that actually I do have The Tayopa and show them the entrance, I chance losing all to anyone of them.

    So, unfortunately the doubters will just have to take me for myself for the present, and the fact than I have yet to be shown to have posted a 'fabrication' of any kind. "Always tell the truth, it is easier to remember "

    I have three other mines also titled. One lies in the heart of the present Piedras Verdes Project in Sonora. they don't need it just yet, but some day soon ---- he he he.

    The other two are clean and ready to go, I was intending to start them up, but the stock collapse caught me flat. I had mining stock in 'Noront' in Canada - which I was going to use, BUT - Sigh. So I wait, and wait, and wait.
    Assay reports from the State of Sonora are posted in here.
    _________________________________________________ ________________________________
    You also posted --> OR quit claiming you found Tayopa.
    *************
    Sorry, no can do, I 'have' found and own it. I have posted photos of it, but with the entrance still closed. Also posted very clear photos of the major deposit, also still closed. What they believe, has no bearing on me, or my present or future handling of Tayopa. I have had my fun in finding it, the rest is a bit of anticlimax, no hurry.
    Tell them to label away.
    Don Jose de La Mancha

    __________________________________________________ ____________________________

    P.S. I may suggest / hint that I had the help of a technology that is not available to the general public, of which this is the first and last word that I will say on it. Sufficient to say that I know where the upper entry is and the extent of the workings. One can go from there with lots of latitude both ways.

    p.p.s. The remarks that they had permits for mining and 'treasures' in six months is a bit curious, since permits for treasures are very difficult, if not impossible to arrange under certain conditins.

    To arrange Mining permits comes after denouncing a property, then filing for a title, after submitting the required technical data and survey + $$. One does not mine without the title.
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  14. #29
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1167 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Oh.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  15. #30
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,311
    2679 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    hi my friend, you posted oh.

    j
    hmm is that OH ! OH ? OH, or simply ooooh.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

 

 
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