Lost Adams Diggings Found!

[Oroblanco]

Investigator wrote

Mounted knights-- all on well-conditioned destriers or palfreys -- would move fairly fast and cover upwards of 50 or 60 miles per day. Four Days From Old Fort Wingate 200 to 240 miles

Mounted knights? How about a bunch of American prospectors on a mix of horses and mules, traveling at the walk? Would they still make 50 or 60 miles per day, over Arizona wilderness? I have doubts.

That is an interesting spin, to cast the Lost Adams into the Superstitions and tie the Peraltas in with it, however there are a number of flies in the buttermilk with this idea. You say four days from Old Ft Wingate; did you take into account the other verbal description? Ten days from Gila Bend, in a general NE direction. Ten days travel at 50 or 60 miles per day puts them 500 to 600 miles NE of Gila Bend, or into quite another state. Then there is the point where Adams was picked up by the Cavalry after running for his life from the mine; I have heard several different locations proposed but all are in very eastern AZ or very western NM; so for the mine canyon to be in the Superstitions, he would have had quite a run.

I would think that four days travel leading a string of pack horses or mules from Ft Wingate would equate to more like ~ 40 to 80 miles tops, which would not even come close to the Superstition mts. What about those "Piloncillos" mentioned by Gotchear? <piloncillos ="sugar-cones" because sugar was sold in hard cone-shaped pieces in the early days> No mention of a "picacho" as a Spanish speaker would likely describe Weavers Needle or Miners Needle. Also how do Peraltas tie in with Adams? I thought the whole Peralta legend is linked with the Lost Dutchman lode mine, not the Lost Adams placer mine.

I don't mean to be the wet blanket, just there seems to be problems with this theory as you propose it. If you can clarify these points (especially the ten days from Gila Bend problem) I would appreciate it. As it stands I can't see how it would work. Thank you in advance;
Oroblanco

 

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[Old Dog]

I would sure hate to see the horse after a ride like that.

If it lived.

 

[Oroblanco]

I agree amigo; heck even the Pony Express riders only averaged 75 miles per day, with a change of horses every ten to fifteen miles. That estimate of 50 to 60 miles per day just seems way too much to me, especially leading pack horses or mules.
Roy

 

[filemaker01]

Hi,

I know my post was rather bold in stating i found the LAD, however the maps I have are an absolute perfect match point for point to the map left behind by Adams Sno Ta Hay Canyon besides being the perfect location to the route as best as Adams or other surviving party members discribed and I promise, anyone looking at the evidence I have will agree a hundred percent. Every single point is there, and if you look at the aerial view everything still fits to a tee. The problem is, I'm willing to post it on a couple of conditions which is first, Jensen who wrote the web site lostadams.com as far as I can tell hasn't been seen nor heard of nor can I or anyone else find him since he wrote the web site and was obviously going back to work the area, however I can't find one trace. I also found some really interesting history on this, besides people vanishing or being murdered since the first Adams party, Jensen vanishing since 2008, the fact that if the coffee pot full of gold nuggets is still where the cabin was as one can tell there definately was and is the perfect spot as described by Adams, then I have no way to get there first myself, because I am disabled. If I had a way to get there without worry of vanishing or being murdered or whatever then I would have been there and back a long time ago. If there really is an ancient Apache Burial ground there as well, then this is sacred ground and there may be someone or people there maybe keeping people from revealing the location. I can also say the area above the little water falls as discribed has a gouge in the earth forty feet deep, and the size of about four or more football fields where the main huge viens were supposed to be.

I will show the area if I can do a couple of things first ofcourse:

1. Make an agreement with someone willing to share the nuggets burried at the cabin as discribed or in the area
2. Know that someone who sees the discription won't go there without backup considering I don't want to send anyone to their deaths if they decide to go alone and are abducted or hurt or killed or vanishes like so many others since it was first found by the Adams Party and who know how many others who have wondered into the area.
3. I also believe there is a very good chance there may be some sort of serious scandle of sorts like maybe or possibly someone found it, recovered the gold illegally and took it to another country, considering there was a instillation nearby and employees or someone working for the company may have found it and the company may have covered it up. There were also a huge number of gold claims that were allowed to expire at the same time the same intitity pulled out and if there is only twenty acres per person allowed to claim, legally then there may be a real problem in that there may have been some sort of crime involving a huge amount of gold that could have been taken from the area considering the size of the gouge left in the earth, it is huge and was dug by man. You can see it clearly.

Please if anyone is willing to help me solve these three problems I will be more than happy to show the location and I promise you will be absolutely as histatic and in awe as I was when I found it. It's really truely amazing but considering the location, it's also very scary to even think about going there alone. I just don't want anyone hurt on account of me showing the location. I'm not a liar and I have excellent credibility with the government on other major cases in the past where my word was considered golden so to speak and the trust they put in me they did so with lives at stake and nobody was hurt and every mission successful.

Please feel free to contact me if you can help me solve these few problems and I will show the location to the first who can.

Thanks, Sincerely,

Phillip Anderson

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

On August 2, 1892, Ed Tewksbury rode more than 100 miles from Pleasant Valley to Phoenix and killed Tom Graham. He then escaped riding through Tempe, on the same horse. He made a straight course for the Superstition Mountains with a posse of thirty or so men close behind. When the posse realized he was pulling away from them, and Charley McFarland's horse fell to the ground, it was decided that the chase was hopeless, and they returned home.

It was said that Tewksbury was "splendidly mounted". I have to agree with you on the "leading pack horses or mules" thingie but, IMHO, the men and animals of that era were made of different stuff than today.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Mr. Anderson,

".....map left behind by Adams Sno Ta Hay Canyon besides...."

Can you tell me what "Sno Ta Hay" means, and from what Native American language it comes from?

Thank you,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you Philip for your frank explanation. I did not mean to imply that I am calling you a "liar" at all, just that I have problems with the theory. Gila Bend is just not that far from the Superstition mountains; I don't have a map handy to post, but think it is less than 100 miles. That would mean Adams, Gotchear and company would have traveled LESS than ten miles a day, which doesn't seem likely. Then too, the distance from Fort Wingate to the Superstitions seems much too far to make that trip in four days on horseback. I have done a bit of horseback travel and making fifty miles a day would be punishing for both man and horse.

My doubts do not mean that you haven't found the Lost Adams either, just means I am not yet convinced. I do hope you will be cautious in choosing a partner to do your field work, for there are too many shysters and dishonest people whom would not hesitate to cheat you if they could.

Sorry to hear about your disability too. Not to tell you what to do, but there are programs in which disabled people are matched up with horses that have proven to be beneficial and therapeutic; the horse becoming in effect the 'legs' for the disabled person. It takes a lot of courage and not just any horse for such partnerships, but may be an option that could open the wilderness areas to you that appears to be closed to you now. Here is one site I found with Google that is involved in equine therapy for disabled persons;
http://www.equest.org/

There is an old quote that is quite true; there is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. Perhaps you have a way to reach your Lost Adams, if you had the right partner - one with four legs maybe?

Roy,

On August 2, 1892, Ed Tewksbury rode more than 100 miles from Pleasant Valley to Phoenix and killed Tom Graham. He then escaped riding through Tempe, on the same horse. He made a straight course for the Superstition Mountains with a posse of thirty or so men close behind. When the posse realized he was pulling away from them, and Charley McFarland's horse fell to the ground, it was decided that the chase was hopeless, and they returned home.

It was said that Tewksbury was "splendidly mounted". I have to agree with you on the "leading pack horses or mules" thingie but, IMHO, the men and animals of that era were made of different stuff than today.

Take care,

Joe

A fugitive fleeing pursuers is not traveling at the same pace as a group of prospectors leading pack animals, clearly, and to try to keep up such a pace for ten days would be death for the horse even were he mounted on Seabiscuit. Emigrant trains often made eight to ten miles a day and thought that a good pace, cavalry covered eighteen miles a day as a general rule when on the march which would be approximately what the Adams group would be similar to. That means a distance of something over 150 miles and closer to 200 miles from Gila Bend. A horse can cover a lot of ground in a day, but time is required for breaking camp, putting on tack, stopping for water and food as well as to rest the animals, and for making camp, building fire, cooking etc each day. I still don't see how the Superstitions would be ten days travel from Gila bend, for men mounted on horses.
Roy A. Decker ~ Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good evening last leg: You posted--> Is it a logical assumption to conclude the precise location of the most treasure laden of the Tayopas was aquired "from afar"? And I do not
include map dowsing as a possible means of discovery.
Whatever your response I expect readers to be entertained, amused
and bewildered.

Delightfully curious,
lastleg
********************

No, it was not from afar, especially if you consider standing on top of the spot as close or adequate.
===============================================================
Gentlemen, a pack animal goes much slower than an experienced human walker will. 15 - 20 miles for a walking horse / mule. A good walker perhaps 20, and a human in top condition can hit 30 miles in flat country. MT considerably less, obviously. I have covered 30 miles in a day with my mule, but I always dismounted when going up or down hill, letting the mule pull me up hill.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[filemaker01]

Thanks Everyone, I know you didn't call me a liar Oroblanco and I absolutely understand your concerns. I promise you there is a part of me that wants to tell everyone so bad it almost hurts, seriously. sometimes I feel like busting wide open and only wish I could just get there myself. If it weren't for the fact that this area has to be considered to be dangerous due to where it's located, I would have posted it by now.

I don't think too many people would want to go alone and anyone who does is only asking for trouble. Has anyone heard or seen Mr. Jensen who wrote the web site since 2008? I can't find him anywhere and although there is a Jensen with the same first name on Facebook, I am positive it isn't the same. I also wrote and he didn't reply. I'm only inquiring just to know he is safe! Please contact me to let me know. Some very suspicious happenings went on at the same time Mr. Jensen would have returned to the Canyon Del Oro as it's also called.

Also there are various markings in the area that make it unmistakable as to being the proper location.

I will bend a little and can post a photo of the map left by Adams himself that Jensen posted on his web site and a photo of the area that shows it is absolutely the same place and no mistaking it either. If I can figure out how to upload a photo using this editor. I may post a link to my own website I use for my web design business.

Thanks for the kind words everyone, I sincerely appreciate it.

Phil A

 

[filemaker01]

Hi Everyone,

I just had a great idea, at least it seems to be to me considering my situation here.

First of all, The area I'm writing about, is claimable. If we can get three or four people together who are willing to file claims of twenty acres each and if there is any gold left, we can all put in and split whatever gold is left that we recover. The thing is, although it looks as though someone took out the main big gold veins by the little waterfalls, I believe the earth shifted and the rest of the veins are located underground and we can tunnel to it. Remember there was in fact a huge earthquake there which changed the area slightly. The really tall monument that pointed to the secret door fell over as you will see in the photos I'll post if we can come to some sort of agreement. For each person who throws in, thats twenty acres each we can legally mine. The other catch is that we all promise and sign paperwork stating that we will preserve the ancient Apache Chief's burial ground and that we do all we can to make the area a national treasure or monument. There is a good chance the coffee pot full of nuggets are still there but like Gotch Ear stated, the real gold is near or at the little waterfall as he pointed out and there is most likely a continuation of the ancient riverbed that holds the veins still continued underground but we will need to do some serious professional prospecting to find them. Also remember the area was hit with a huge earthquake I believe more than once since MacKenna went by there the last time he did, he decided not to go back into the canyon because it looked too dangerous and for good reasons. If we can get together and put in claims together and work the area I will post where it is located. I have all the proper offices lined up where we will have to pay the fees for the claims with the county and state where it's located and with BLM and the one person there is waiting to help me with this because they know I want to preserve the Apache Chief burial ground with great respect and turn the area into a monument or historical area, or national treasure. The area has been worked before by those who knew where it is and pulled gold out for years. We need at least three to four or more people and they will pay my share of the fees for my twenty acres because I am showing where it is located. Can we agree to this?
Thanks,

Phil A

 

[homefires]

LOL! Sno Ta Hay Translated from Apache= " WHat to Fu#%!"

A common Greeting of people here in Southern New Mexico and Arizona is "Yat ta Hay"! Meaning What's Up! (Based on Yaki Apache Tongue) From Mexico. This is were Geronimo Came from!


That is what they said when the miners moved over the Water Fall they told them not to go above.!

That's when they decided to kill the miners.

"Ta Hay" in most modern and pre 1900's Indian tongue states ,"What to Hell?"
"
Don't ask me how I know!

I still state this was in New Mexico:

Around Bear Canyon Lake or up in the Cat Walk areas.

I'm watching.

 

[Springfield]

You can file as many 600'x1500' lode mining claims as you wish in your name - you don't need partners. In fact, you should grid-stake the entire area if you're convinced there is a rich lode deposit there. By the way, there are several different 'gospel' versions of the Lost Adams Diggings legend - which are you relying on and why?

 

[filemaker01]

I was told by BLM that regulates the area that because of where it's located, they will only allow 20 acres at $180.00 per claim, that's any type of claim. I called again this morning to make sure. The county where it's located charges $35.00 per person.

Even if I weren't disabled, I know better than to attempt working the area by myself. I've worked all over northern California for many years prospecting in many areas and know how much work is involved. A mlllclaim will also be needed unless the gold is pure enough to take directly to the US Mint.

All I need to three to four others who are willing to go in on this, ofcourse if it is possible to file more than one claim of twenty acres per person then that's fine but I'm sure you'll recieve the same answers I did.

Again, the area may be extremely unsafe for anyone to go into by themselves. I'll show those who are intested why and I'm sure they will more than understand why considering the recent history involved. If the pot of gold is still under the hearth of where the fireplace was, then we can split that and whatever else equally however I want to record this and we must be completely honest as far as taxes etc. All I think we need is a writen agreement we can all sign stating we won't divulge the area to others and that we are working as as team. I'm going to post a photo of the area later tonight.

From what I understand, the Apache had no curse words in their vocabulary. Anyway, I'm hoping to deal with people who are serious and not hecklers who are basically useless anyway.

Thanks

Phil A

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO Homefires. In Mexico the similar slang greeting is "que hay"? pronounced "k ay" in anglo . What is going on how are you . what's up?


Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

homefires,

Ya ta hay is not Apache. It's Navajo for "hello". I suppose that could be loosely translated as "what's up?"

I am familiar with Western Apache and Jicarilla Apache dialects, and it's not from either language.

Any stories that originate with Nino Cochise are probably fiction. If you ask Apache elders, they may get a bit angry, as they all said he was an impostor and not related to Cochise at all. That included Cochise's relatives. I can provide the source for that information.....if requested.

One of the reasons I never paid much attention to "A Treasure Hunter's Guide to Tayopa" was because he used Nino's book as a source. That ended it for me.
On the other hand, the author did spend his time on the ground down there, and had other, more reliable, sources.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Springfield]

Placer Claim: 20 acres maximum, any shape, one claim per filer. Required to remove surface mineral deposits. Lode Claim: 600'x1500'=20.66 acres, or any smaller fraction thereof. Filer can claim as many lode claims as necessary. Required to remove subsurface mineral deposits.

Both types of mining claims have their own requirements and restrictions. Check with a professional to determine filing procedures, fees, legal liabilities, mining plan permits, remediation bond requirements, etc. A mining operation can be complicated and expensive.

Since you claim that the highgrade vein deposits continue underground, you will want lode claims as this is where the money will be. It will also be expensive to recover. If you know where the coffeepot is, why not just hike in and retrieve it? It will be easy money for you if you can find it. Incidentally, it's not a sure thing that the cabin, hearthstone or coffeepot exist since they were mentioned in only a few of the many versions of the LAD legend, most of which are contradictory to eachother on major points.

By the way, you refer to the McKenna version of the legend where the author accompanies Jason Baxter to a canyon that Baxter believed was the location of the Lost Adams Diggings and also the Lost Snively Diggings, the two being the same in Baxter's opinion. This location seems to lie one side or the other of US Highway 60, somewhere between Datil and Quemado, more or less. This is a popular choice for sure, and maybe the correct one if the diggings exist. However, you also allude to Jensen's alleged discovery of the diggings which are clearly on the Rio San Francisco, not too far north of its confluence with the Gila River. These two sites are not close to eachother. Since you also mention Apaches, it seems logical you are referring to the Jensen site. Maybe you could clarify - it's confusing.

 

[Oroblanco]

Just to clarify here, you can stake and file MORE than one placer claim too; that 20 acre restriction is per name on the title, so you could have up to eight names (maximum) for a 160 acre claim. You are not limited to having only ONE placer claim, so if there were say 200 acres you wished to claim you could do it in ten x 20 acre placer claims with only one name as owner, or five x 40 acre claims with two names as owners and so on. As the Lost Adams diggings (by most of the sources) is a placer gold deposit, a placer claim or a group of them seems the logical way to go. Lode claims have to run along the vein (generally) not done the same way as placer. There are a number of websites that explain this in detail, and each state may have somewhat different requirements both in the actual staking and in the filing.

One thing to consider is the Small Miners exemption; if you own ten or less mining claims you can qualify for this, which is quite a difference in the annual fees you must pay.

I don't want to discourage you amigo, but please be cautious when you are selecting who will be your partner or partners. Partnerships have high possibilities for major problems, anything from simple disagreements to fraud or even violent confrontations. Not saying this is what will happen at all, just please use due caution. It is easier to avoid problems than to correct them.

Good luck with your discovery Philip, I hope you will keep us posted with your finds and especially a few photos of the gold!
Roy ~ Oroblanco

PS - be sure to put your partnership agreement IN WRITING. It saves headaches later.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ORO, mi buddy ,. you posted --> put your partnership agreement IN WRITING
*************
Sigh, what ever happened to the handshake deal? Or even an implied one? Life has changed.

However Springfield, do as Oros said.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Springfield]

ORO, mi buddy ,. you posted --> put your partnership agreement IN WRITING
*************
Sigh, what ever happened to the handshake deal? Or even an implied one? Life has changed.

However Springfield, do as Oros said.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Me? I'm not in on it. I've got other fish to fry.

 

[cactusjumper]

Phil,

"Besides I’m only asking that my shares for the claim be paid by others in the group or I share what is filed as a group."

That statement is a little unclear. Are you going to pay an equal share of the expenses, or will you be exempt from those costs?

Thank you,

Joe Ribaudo