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  1. #1
    Charter Member
    us
    Pirate of the Martires

    Feb 2005
    Pinellas Park, Florida
    Aquapulse, J.W. Fisher Proton 3, Pulse Star II
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    Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    No use searching for this anymore. Its already been found: http://www.lostadams.com/.

  2. # ADS
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  3. #2
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,496
    611 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Quote Originally Posted by Salvor6
    No use searching for this anymore. Its already been found: http://www.lostadams.com/.
    Jensen's story is typical of those offered by the many 'finders' of the LAD. He cherry-picked a select number of LAD clues from the extensive catalog of available choices, then located a canyon on topo maps that seemed to match this particular Adams travel route and set of landmarks. This is a logical approach - one taken by many. His original expedition was unable to reach the famous placer camp because, well, "If itís not one thing itís another". Later, however, he and his partner hiked to a convenient vantage point and from a distance, verified his landmarks and claimed to have solved the LAD puzzle. Curiously, at this moment of truth, rather than actually hiking to the canyon bottom to prove existence of the diggings, he says, "Well, we decided to leave everything right where it was. It wouldnít be too long and winter would be upon us and so we pulled the plug for this year". This was in 2001 and we were advised to "stay tuned".

    Jensen cites a military report, October1-November 27, 1864 Expedition from Fort Craig, N. Mex. to Fort Goodwin, Ariz. Ter. Report of Col. Oscar M. Brown, First California Cavalry, as a confirmation of the Adams legend, since the report does mention the discovery of old placer workings on the lower Rio San Francisco, Jensen's LAD target area. Jensen quotes Brown's statement that his troops indeed found color in the old diggings and comes to the conclusion that these must be the Adams Diggings. He conveniently ignore's Brown's very next sentence that "the placer is very limited, however, and do not think it would pay". This report is definitely of interest, but the report as submitted by Brown does not seem to validate that these diggings are more than routine prospects. If Jensen had gone to the trouble of actually locating the site, and the diggings had been proven to be significent, then we might really have something to chew on. However, this sort of evidence has not been provided.

    Jensen's webpage does a thorough job of boasting and self-praise, but in the end seems to be little more than bar talk at this time. Too bad - his search area does have a lot of good possibilities, IMHO. I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water here, but I also wouldn't yet agree that the LAD has been found.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  4. #3
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
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    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Seasons greetings,

    I have to DITTO the conclusions of our amigo Springfield; and add that this is yet another of those claims to have found a famous lost mine, without so much as a fleck of gold to show for it. We don't have a sample of ore to compare any found gold with to prove it is one and the same with Adams Diggings, and being placer about all we could ever hope for would be for very close fire assays, but as with only too many of these claims - NO GOLD at all, just some lame excuse.

    That notation about the placer not being worth mining kind of throws extra doubts on this story.

    Wishing you all a VERY Merry Christmas,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  5. #4
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,228
    855 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Stand by Gentlemen heheheh
    D J d L M
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  6. #5
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,228
    855 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Ladies & Gentlemen: provocative bit of speculation he he he.

    This is an aerial view of Tayopa, looking East.

    (x) is the zigzag trail leading to the hidden entrance (e). A short ways inside, you will encounter the falls (f) on your right exiting from the Para mo canyon. The twin peaks will be found just to the west, out of sight in the picture known as the Cerros Chapos. Continuing up the Tayopa canyon, then turning left is the Skull Cave of the Apaches. So--

    A) We have a canyon complex that is approx. 10 days south of the Border.
    B) It was used by the Apache as a stronghold - skull Cave.
    C) Nana was supposedly in the area in the same time frame.
    D) The entrance is by a zigzag trail in the Arroyo
    E) The entrance is a hidden one, between two huge rocks
    F) To The west are the Cerros Chapos or the twin peaks
    G) the falls are on the right, exiting from the Paramo canyon which was claimed to be a very rich gold Placer.

    There is more, however, as you can see, it can easily be made to fit the lAD and could explain why it has never been found. They were looking in the wrong area. The same as for Tayopa?

    Can It be that Tayopa and the Lost Adams Diggings are the same?

    Something for you to chew on for a bit.

    He he he

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  7. #6
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,496
    611 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    Ladies & Gentlemen: provocative bit of speculation he he he.
    Interesting observations as this proposed location offers many of the LAD clues. Let's look at them:


    A) We have a canyon complex that is approx. 10 days south of the Border.
    This distance lies within the generally accepted range of the search.
    B) It was used by the Apache as a stronghold - skull Cave.
    Interesting anecdotal item but the Apache had numerous strongholds in the search area.
    C) Nana was supposedly in the area in the same time frame.
    This would be impossible to verify.
    D) The entrance is by a zigzag trail in the Arroyo.
    Zigzag trails in canyons are, unfortunately for LAD searchers, common.
    E) The entrance is a hidden one, between two huge rocks.
    'Hidden canyon entrances' are, unfortunately for LAD searchers, common.
    F) To The west are the Cerros Chapos or the twin peaks.
    It's amazing how many distinct landmark-worthy twin peaks exist within the search area. I'm looking at a very prominent pair out my window as I type this.
    G) the falls are on the right, exiting from the Paramo canyon which wasclaimed to be a very rich gold Placer.
    Another interesting anecdote.
    There is more, however, as you can see, it can easily be made to fit the LAD and could explain why it has never been found. They were looking in the wrong area. The same as for Tayopa?.
    Yes it can. Depending on which set of clues you assemble, hundreds of canyons within the search area can be, and have been, and still are being 'definitely matched' to the LAD.
    Can It be that Tayopa and the Lost Adams Diggings are the same?
    When you put it that way, nobody can say yes; nobody can say no.

    Adams and his many confidants offered numerous versions of this tale over the years that followed the actual event. The discrepancies and confusion with the clues and landmarks make it understandable why the diggings have been so difficult to locate. One thing we know for certain is that Adams himself returned to search for the diggings several times - always within the generally accepted NM-AZ region. He may have been confused about some of the details of the canyon of gold, but he apparently remembered whether he was travelling northerly rather than southerly during the original days of discovery. This is a major stumbling block for a Mexican location.

    We wouldn't be discussing a Mexican location for the LAD if it weren't for the Nino Cochise book. While the book is quite a good read, we have a major problem with Nino's credibility. His reputation is, let's say, controversial, among historians and Apaches. I'd be willing to accept the possibility that the Apaches had a gold mine somewhere near Juh's stronghold in Mexico, but claiming that it was the LAD would be too much of a stretch for me at this time. But .... quien sabe?
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  8. #7
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,228
    855 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    HI: good reply Springfield, I threw in Tayopa since it fits the LAD nicely, not that I really believe it -- at this point in time, but?? Hmmm

    Our main problem is that all stories and information are both consciously, and subconsciously modified.

    Perhaps Adams only 'said' that he was returning to New Mexico instead of actually going to Old Mexico. Then again he might have even gone there to throw off any that might be following him.

    Who knows, many a person has become confused and modifies memories because of a strong emotional experience. He certainly had one.

    Another factor is that the supposed locations can easily be covered via satt., yet nothing shows up? Watering troughs and trails yes. BUT !

    Tayopa does, and with the basic broadly specified required configurations.

    Fascinating, it would be a kick if it was actually both. ehehehe

    Incidentally The Skull cave was used by the Apache. They gave specific directions how to follow up the main arroyo, to where it turned to the right and continued up to a hidden entrance. They said to go through the opening and continue past a small waterfall until the arroyo turned left. There, on your left, below a small crest, is the skull cave where they stayed and also left arms & food.

    My Apache informant also stated that there were many hide sacks in back, which had nothing to with them.

    Getting interesting, no?

    Don Jose de La LAD

    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  9. #8
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,496
    611 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    .... Perhaps Adams only 'said' that he was returning to New Mexico instead of actually going to Old Mexico. Then again he might have even gone there to throw off any that might be following him. ....
    A logical option except that nearly all the LAD reports we have stem from people who accompanied Adams on the numerous expeditions he led trying to relocate the diggings. Many, many witnesses/participants have attested to these search areas. Heck, I've even seen a carving, "ADAMS 1880" on those twin peaks I mentioned above.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  10. #9
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,228
    855 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    All true springfield. however, If he suffered from a traumatic memory change, while he may have actually tried, he subconsciously modified it to go in an entirely different area thus not having to revisit his mental shock location hence avoiding a confrontation. Not too uncommon. heheh

    This is why many Mexicans that actually find treasures can never return to the site, no matter how hard they try consciously. A protective device.

    Interesting thought, if he actually was that close to the actual area, I am curious why many haven't located it via Satellite, there certainly hasn't been a lack of them. I will have to check this out myself, since I have no preconceived thoughts in that area.

    Old trails and ruins stick out like a sore thumb. I actually found the secondary entrance into Tayopa from the Yokivo trail with it. Once you dropped off of the rim, it was quickly found, It was well graded and built for animal traffic.

    As for the 'Adams 1880' carving? Where did this reference that 'he' actually carved this come from?

    Don Jose el Pesto

    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  11. #10
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,496
    611 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa
    All true springfield. however, If he suffered from a traumatic memory change, while he may have actually tried, he subconsciously modified it to go in an entirely different area thus not having to revisit his mental shock location hence avoiding a confrontation. Not too uncommon. heheh
    [I guess anything's possible.]

    This is why many Mexicans that actually find treasures can never return to the site, no matter how hard they try consciously. A protective device.
    [I've heard the same story myself. The 'protection' often seems to be against people who question them about something that never happened in the first place. But then, around here there are a few stories about the 'todos o nada' factor too. Who knows - maybe the treasure sprites like to mess with people.]

    Interesting thought, if he actually was that close to the actual area, I am curious why many haven't located it via Satellite, there certainly hasn't been a lack of them. I will have to check this out myself, since I have no preconceived thoughts in that area.

    Old trails and ruins stick out like a sore thumb. I actually found the secondary entrance into Tayopa from the Yokivo trail with it. Once you dropped off of the rim, it was quickly found, It was well graded and built for animal traffic.
    [Good luck - you'll undoubtedly locate a whole passel of targets.]

    As for the 'Adams 1880' carving? Where did this reference that 'he' actually carved this come from?
    [Strictly speculation on my part, based on the fact that Adams several times began his later searches from Pinos Altos, NM.]

    Don Jose el Pesto
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  12. #11
    us
    Mar 2010
    Raleigh, North Carolina
    Radio Shack Discover
    94

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    There's only one way to know. Someone will have to hike into the canyon. I bet we can find at least a few TreasureNet members that will do it.

  13. #12
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,228
    855 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Take Springfield, I am sure that he will volunteer. Sides, I like the way that he thinks.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  14. #13
    us
    Mar 2005
    Laveen, AZ
    Tesoro Lobo
    526
    42 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Real de Tayopa wrote:

    As for the 'Adams 1880' carving? Where did this reference that 'he' actually carved this come from?
    [Strictly speculation on my part, based on the fact that Adams several times began his later searches from Pinos Altos, NM.]

    Based on what fact? I must have misunderstood or missed something about Mr. Adams. Do we know his first name, place of birth, death, was he Union, Johnny Reb, scout or a figment of someones imagination? Please correct me if I am wrong for as far as I know there is no documented truth that the man even existed. Sure, some have written of his existence, but it is all hearsay. Who in the heck has any information concerning the real man, Mr. Adams?

    I do not believe that Mr. Adams (who ever he was) ever had a ledge to loose in the first place.

    Thanks in advance for any info.



    Ellie B.

  15. #14
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
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    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Hola amigos,

    There are at least two Adams legends, which are definitely not the same person nor same time period. The later Adams ran an Indian trading post, and was a "ledge" deposit; the original Adams story tells of a placer deposit. No ledge. As far as I know, Adams was not a member of either Union or Rebel forces. That there was a real person, going by the name of Adams, is fairly well documented, even newspaper reports his arrival in towns and the groups of supporters or 'partners'- grubstakers whom were involved. Many people saw the large gold nugget he claimed came from his lost mine. If you do a bit of research into this, you will soon find more leads than you might expect.

    Whether Brewer was also a surviving member of Adams original group is debatable, and the "other" Adams lost mine story has served to help muddy the waters of this legend to a fair degree. Several of our fellow members here have done a good deal of researching this legend (Springfield, High Mountain for two) and could give you better details.

    Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
    Oroblanco



    *<BEGIN Personal opinion;> In my opinion, this Lost Adams Diggings is in the top 5 lost mine legends of all. Like the Lost Dutchman, it seems incredible to non-treasure hunters that such a rich gold deposit could remain lost for SO long, after SO many experienced prospectors and treasure hunters have searched for it. Also similar to the LDM, there have been a number of folks whom have claimed to have found it, but in virtually every case they have no gold to show. It is a gold mine, and yes it could be "worked out" but even in the most played out mine imaginable, there are still traces of gold remaining, and a placer mine would have large tailings piles if it were worked out. Beth and I have spent some of the best times we ever had, searching the mountains and malpais in the border area, and I still think this could be found by diligent searching and a good dose of plain old luck. <END personal opinion>*
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  16. #15
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,228
    855 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    HI my friends: I certainly do not propose that Tayopa is the LAD, the LDM, or El Naranjal. I was just pointing out the coincidence of the basic points of reference. So many places could fit the LAD
    *******************

    A) There is a Pinos Altos north of Tayopa.

    B) There are two small peaks.

    C) There is a cave that the Apache lived in. It is futher in, to the North from the waterfall.

    D) The entrance to Tayopa is a series of hidden loops in an extremely narow canyon.

    E) There is a small water fall where the Paramo canyon exits into the Tayopa canyon.

    F) The Paramo was renowned for it's gold Placer and it's year around flow of water.

    &************************************************* *********

    So, we have a hidden box canyon some days, S. from a Pinos Altos.

    One of the entrances is by way of a series of zig zag turns in the Arroyo exit. The entrance arroyo is not accessable from the sides, you have to use the arroyo to enter.

    The entrance is hidden effectively.

    Shortly after entering, you encounter the placer fed by the Paramo falls on the right.

    Up to the falls there is a Gold placer in the Tayopa canyon, after none.


    Above the falls on the right is the Very rich Paramo placers.

    If you continue up the Tayopa canyon it takes a turn to the left where the Skull cave is located. It was used by the Apache.

    The also used a small mesa in the Paramo to live on

    Curious no?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  17. #16
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,228
    855 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    OOPs, sorry I had forgotten the remains of an arrastra at the head of the Tayopa Canyon where the father of a school teacher had worked for a while. He had made enough so that he never had to return. Soooo, the gold did continue up the Tayopa canyon. The remains of the large arrastra are now hidden under the overburden in the Arroyo, but were still visible when I first went to Tayopa.

    The school teacher showed up while I was there with a map from his father. He took one look at the country and went back to his school.

    It still fits the basic description of the LAD, he he he. How many others also do?

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  18. #17
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,496
    611 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellie Baba
    .... As for the 'Adams 1880' carving? Where did this reference that 'he' actually carved this come from?
    [Strictly speculation on my part, based on the fact that Adams several times began his later searches from Pinos Altos, NM.]

    Based on what fact? I must have misunderstood or missed something about Mr. Adams. Do we know his first name, place of birth, death, was he Union, Johnny Reb, scout or a figment of someones imagination? Please correct me if I am wrong for as far as I know there is no documented truth that the man even existed. Sure, some have written of his existence, but it is all hearsay. Who in the heck has any information concerning the real man, Mr. Adams?

    I do not believe that Mr. Adams (who ever he was) ever had a ledge to loose in the first place.

    Thanks in advance for any info.
    You raise a valid point about Adams - all we know about him is either hearsay or speculation. We know that someone identifying himself as 'Adams' told detailed, but wildly inconsistent versions of the legendary lost mine to a number of people in the latter part of the 19th century. These tales were heard by hundreds or thousands who took up the search based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

    My opinion is that there was indeed a man calling himself Adams who initiated the stories. My strongest 'evidence' is a private memoir provided to me by the family of Col. JW Fleming, a mining man and city father of Silver City, NM, who met Adams in San Diego in 1886 and received the lost mine story at that time directly from Adams himself. The hand-typed memoir relates certain details of the legend (starting point, number of men, terrain description, rescue fort, etc.) from which Fleming draws his own conclusions as to where the diggings might be located. Other historical people who Adams dealt with earlier and later than 1886 were also mentioned in the memoir. Whether or not the story Adams told Fleming has any merit is open to debate, but I am convinced that a man claiming to be Adams did exist.

    In my opinion, the most intriguing player in this legend was Jacob Snively, a man whose life has been definitely linked to military activities in the Republic of Texas, guerrila raiding on the Santa Fe Trail, the discovery of placer gold and the founding of Pinos Altos, NM, the discovery of placer gold and the founding of Gila City, AZ, and his close association with Arizona's well-known Jack Swilling. Snively was killed by Apaches in 1878 in Arizona. Another of Snively's remarkable placer gold discoveries allegedly occured in the 1860's 'north of Pinos Altos' that has never been identified but may have provided him with up to sixty pounds of placer. Some have speculated that Snively may have been the 'Dutchman' from the Adams legends and this may have been the source of the placer.

    My working model: some event involving gold sparked the Lost Adams Diggings legends. Jacob Snively was involved. The man calling himself Adams may or may not have been involved.
    "The gods were smiling when you were born. Now they're laughing."​ Chinese fortune cookie

  19. #18
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
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    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Hola amigos,

    Don Jose' - ok, I will bite. Here is my first problem with Tayopa as the LAD. Describe the route from the Pima villages on the Gila river, to Tayopa, and explain how this could be so mistaken for traveling NE? <Drawing the route on a map will do as well as a description.> Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  20. #19
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,228
    855 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Morning my tea drinking friend Oro.

    A) As I mentioned, I do not believe that Tayopa in any way, is or hosts either the LAD or El Naranjal. It is just my way of pointing out how easily the basic descriptions of either can be adapted to other locations. This can apply to Tayopa itself naturally. 'You' will have to find El Naranjal and the LAD.

    As for directions in those days, not all were unfailing navigators. Many went entirely by" go up this canyon until you see such and such, go left for three days, then upon reaching this 'X', follow the rising sun until you come to 3 peaks . Align them up then follow the setting Sun and in 4 days it will led you directly to the box canyon".

    You are well versed in the Calif gold rush days, where the directions were 'go up the south fork of the eastern fork to the north fork of the third junction, one day up this will take you to the new strike".

    In other words they were not compass orientated, but by the physical configurations of the land.

    Regarding the LAD it is up to you which version that you wish to follow.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________________

    B) You posted --> explain how this could be so mistaken for traveling NE?
    *********

    May I refer you to the widely accepted document which states . 'From the Sierra de La Campana, on the 7 th March, the sun will be setting directly over Tayopa. 10 days travel will bring you to Tayopa'.

    A line to the setting Sun from the Sierra de La Campana on that date passes just slightly south of Ocampa and directly over Tayopa. It is in a 'South Western' direction, which obviously means that the Campana lies to the North of Tayopa.

    Yet, some very prominent and qualified seekers after Tayopa have managed to show that it passes over the Guaynopa area. This is a classic illustration of how facts can be modified to fit a preconceived idea or belief.

    Is it possible that the LAD data was modified this way also?

    If you wish I will post the map showing the Tayopa / Camapana modificaton.

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    p.s. Tayopa is tayopa, the LAD is the lad, and el Naranjal is El naranjal, and never shall the trio meet.
    The LAD and El Naranjal are still up for grabs.
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  21. #20
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
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    Re: Lost Adams Diggings Found!

    Hola amigo Don Jose de la Mancha,

    Thank you, though I am left wondering. The general NE direction as recalled by Adams, may have been off a bit. I am guessing at this part but how did Adams judge his direction? I found no mention of any compass, so have to conclude he was judging by the Sun, which can be a little misleading if one does not take into consideration that the Sun does not rise directly east nor set directly west, a fellow can be off by more than a few degrees. This is much more marked (error) the farther North one goes, but even at 30 degrees latitude it is noticeable.

    Who can say exactly where El Naranjal and the LAD are? Perhaps they are not so far apart geographically?
    Oroblanco

    PS I still love those pix amigo!
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

 

 
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