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Thread: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

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  1. #16
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    OLA amigos,
    <Aren't you proud I spelled it right for once?>

    At the risk of drifting even farther off topic, if El Naranjal is well within Durango as you propose amigo Tropical Tramp, how do we account for the royal road sign found by the German prospector, naming Naranjal and De Arco, in a canyon that is within Sinaloa? Elevation is another problem (for the orange orchard to survive) but as you said they are successfully growing oranges in Durango, that must not be an issue. Thank you in advance.

    To tie this back into the topic, that name Sno-ta-hey being at least allegedly of Navajo origin I think is an important clue. The branch of Navajos which Nana named as the origin of the name lived in territory that is well outside the current boundaries of the Navajo reservation, I do not know of any map that delineates it but their presence has been mentioned well south, southwest and southeast of the reservation. How did Apaches come to be claiming it as their own land? I had a Navajo friend (a real, professional sheepherder) who told me that name is indeed Navajo, and isn't really what people think it means ('there it lies') but is a play on words that does not translate well. I know that others insist the name is Apache and not at all Navajo, but other info <geographic> from the same source has proven to be 100% accurate, even though quite far from the Navajo reservation.
    Oroblanco



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  2. #17
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    Dec 2005
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Roy,

    I looked into "Sno-ta-hey" and believe I posted my conclusions on this forum. I am, somewhat, familiar with a few of the Apache dialects, and don't believe "Sno-ta-hey" fits into any of them.
    There is some justification for your Navajo conclusion.

    Nino Cochise, IMHO, was a complete fake. I have a signed first edition of his book, and found many things that don't fit into the Apache culture, something I am passing familiar with. I have seen what many Apache, as well as the better known and respected white Apache historians have said about Nino. None are flattering for him.

    On the other hand, there are probably many places in Mexico that fit the story......minus the gold mine. My guess is that if Grenville Goodwin didn't find and write about the camp it didn't exist, as described by Nino.

    Believe I am with you on this one.

    Take care,

    Joe

  3. #18
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    Jan 2005
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Joe - I can't prove what I was told on that name Sno-ta-hey at all. I have not read Nino Cochise's version so cannot comment in either direction, but what I have heard on his veracity is not reassuring.

    As a side note, that friend became so, due to a simple favor I did him once. He had had too much to drink at our bar, and asked if I would give him a ride home. I happily agreed, and drove him out to the range where his camp was. From that moment on, he was my friend - he gave Beth a leg of lamb, several eagle feathers to me, and talked freely of some of the treasure legends that have held my interest for so long. As most of that info passed over the mahogany ridge, lubricated with Coors, I don't know how much dependence could be put on it, but of the things he told me I have never found a single falsehood. He was very much, "old school". One doesn't expect to find Navajos in northern Wyoming, but they do work as sheep herders and are very good at it. I have often heard that many lost mines exact locations are well known among a few Indians, and while I strongly doubt that to be true (they can use money just as we can) I do think that the zigzag canyon may well be one site that is known but since it is outside the reservation will not be revealed.

    One point I am fairly certain of - something that Bob Shoose mentioned, Adams couldn't find that mine because he was very definitely searching too far Sorth.
    Roy

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  4. #19
    mx
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Hi Oro, you posted-->I do think that the zigzag canyon may well be one site that is known but since it is outside the reservation will not be revealed.

    ********
    Of course not, it is in Chihauhua. snicker Just where the Apaches found and left it with a mispronounced or explained name..

    Since no one has found it where it is supposed to be, then it must be where it is not supposed to be. Brilliant no snicker.

    As for a stone indicating a road, just how far away from it's destination could that be? Also on which side of the stone is it engraved? Remember I have one in northern Sinaloa that says "Camimo al Fuego de Barras", a reputed lost mine of Pb with Extremely high Ag. found while I was searching for the Gloria Pan mine, also known as "La Mina de peligro" due to it's access trail.

    This lies beyond the western side of the old graveyard of Tubares, the base for the formerly lost, but actually now known location of the 'Gloria Pan' mine..

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    p.s. If Bob Shoose claims this to be true, may I ask how he knows this? (sorth) south / north ??
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #20
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Gentlemen,

    Bob Schoose is a partner of Ron Feldman. Ron and another partner, Mic McPherson wrote a book called "Zig Zag Canyon". In the book, Ron and Mic find the Lost Adams. You would need to talk to Ron to judge if the book is fiction......or not.

    Take care,

    Joe

  6. #21
    pw
    Apr 2003
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper
    Gentlemen,

    Bob Schoose is a partner of Ron Feldman. Ron and another partner, Mic McPherson wrote a book called "Zig Zag Canyon". In the book, Ron and Mic find the Lost Adams. You would need to talk to Ron to judge if the book is fiction......or not.

    Take care,

    Joe
    Another Zigzag Canyon with lots of zigzag but no gold.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  7. #22
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    Hi Oro, you posted-->I do think that the zigzag canyon may well be one site that is known but since it is outside the reservation will not be revealed.

    ********
    Of course not, it is in Chihauhua. snicker Just where the Apaches found and left it with a mispronounced or explained name..

    Since no one has found it where it is supposed to be, then it must be where it is not supposed to be. Brilliant no snicker.

    As for a stone indicating a road, just how far away from it's destination could that be? Also on which side of the stone is it engraved? Remember I have one in northern Sinaloa that says "Camimo al Fuego de Barras", a reputed lost mine of Pb with Extremely high Ag. found while I was searching for the Gloria Pan mine, also known as "La Mina de peligro" due to it's access trail.

    This lies beyond the western side of the old graveyard of Tubares, the base for the formerly lost, but actually now known location of the 'Gloria Pan' mine..

    Don Jose de La Mancha

    p.s. If Bob Shoose claims this to be true, may I ask how he knows this? (sorth) south / north ??
    As to the distances away from a marker sign, it could be any distance but is it likely to have a marker put up, a long distance from a site? Or is it not more common to put up such a sign at the closest crossroads, and only for large cities to put up signs that are a great distance away.

    My mistake on the spelling of Bob Schoose's name, and it was a little joke; I think he meant to say "north" but it came out "sorth" which I have now adopted for my own. It works quite well too - as in I am fairly certain that ye olde Lost Adams cannot be in Chihuahua, that is simply too far sorth!

    Springfield wrote
    Another Zigzag Canyon with lots of zigzag but no gold
    Actually if memory serves, there was a little gold, just not enough to make it worth the cost to mine it. Point is valid however - there are so many zigzag canyons that makes the clue pretty much worthless.

    Oroblanco

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
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  8. #23
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco

    .....
    Quote: Another Zigzag Canyon with lots of zigzag but no gold
    Actually if memory serves, there was a little gold, just not enough to make it worth the cost to mine it. Point is valid however - there are so many zigzag canyons that makes the clue pretty much worthless.

    Oroblanco
    That's right. I can get you a little gold from my driveway, but that doesn't make it either minable or the LAD. Remember, Snively (the 'Dutchman') singlehandedly panned about 500 ounces in a couple weeks before he got Indian fear and left the site.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  9. #24
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    G'morning ORO: You posted -->I am fairly certain that ye olde Lost Adams cannot be in Chihuahua, that is simply too far sorth!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I agree with you 100%, however can you reasonably prove it ? What I am attempting to do is to get the group into thinking independently from any authors, since they apparently didn't find it either.

    Go back to the basic data, or what is believed to be the basic. Make you own path using any newer data to only fill yours out. Remember to be ready with that delete, or secondary file button, on anything that patently does not fit.

    Be ruthless, if it doesn't fit physically or logically, move it to standby..

    FIND IT !!

    Don Jose de La Mancha



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    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  10. #25
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    .... Go back to the basic data, or what is believed to be the basic.....
    Unfortunately, there isn't any 'basic data', only about two or three dozen versions of the story, almost all of them third hand at best, and nearly all conflicting in details large and small. We do know the German, Snively (one of the most accomplished men of his era, whom we know few details about), rode into Pinos Altos at the right time with an eye-popping stash of placer, which he sold later in Yuma. Where do you want to start?
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  11. #26
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Don Jose wrote
    G'morning ORO: You posted -->I am fairly certain that ye olde Lost Adams cannot be in Chihuahua, that is simply too far sorth!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I agree with you 100%, however can you reasonably prove it ?
    Yes, there must have been an historic presence of a particular branch of the Navajos residing in the immediate area of the Adams, which was later usurped by Apaches - and this conquest by Apaches must have taken place prior to Adams arrival there. As far as I am aware, there are no records of any Navajo bands residing well south in Chihuahua. However, point is well taken, and outside the box thinking is certainly called for.

    Springfield - ain't it the truth! I found that there is gold literally in our back yard here, a sand layer about two feet under the gumbo, which has streaks of black sands and yes placer gold. There is no record of any gold being reported found in Edgemont area, ever, and the amount is so small that the gold price would have to be in the $100,000 per ounce to make it worth the cost to mine it, but gold can be found in non-economic amounts over many areas. Were the Adams just a lode gold deposit, then it would be worth tracing back tiny traces of gold - but I am not convinced that it was lode at all.
    Oroblanco

    Got to go, will pop in later. Coffee?

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  12. #27
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Coffee ?? Oro, you have an insidiously depressing, but at the same time an elevating sense of humor 'OF COURSE I WANT COFFE !!

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  13. #28
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    Coffee ?? Oro, you have an insidiously depressing, but at the same time an elevating sense of humor 'OF COURSE I WANT COFFE !!

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Well thanks, I think? I will hand-wring the sock personally as I know you like your coffee STRONG! Besides it will save me having to wash my hands, you know we must always conserve water.

    Side question (for anyone who cares to answer) but what is the furthest south that any branch of the Navajos have been known to have lived, historically speaking? Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco

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  14. #29
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    Coffee ?? Oro, you have an insidiously depressing, but at the same time an elevating sense of humor 'OF COURSE I WANT COFFE !!

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Well thanks, I think? I will hand-wring the sock personally as I know you like your coffee STRONG! Besides it will save me having to wash my hands, you know we must always conserve water.

    Side question (for anyone who cares to answer) but what is the furthest south that any branch of the Navajos have been known to have lived, historically speaking? Thank you in advance,
    Oroblanco

    Roy,

    The Navajo lived, primarily in northern Arizona and New Mexico. There was some presence in southern Utah and Colorado, and they are still there today.

    The did conduct raids into Mexico.

    Take care,

    Joe

  15. #30
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Thanks Joe - I had not heard of any Navajo raids into Mexico before. About the furthest south that I have heard of them was in the Dragoons or Tucson.
    Roy
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
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