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Thread: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

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  1. #31
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    A H H A !!!!!

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  2. #32
    um
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    Jan 2005
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    A H H A !!!!!

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Ah-ha! Now lets see some documentation of that Navajo raid into Mexico! <Don't worry amigos I am a very patient person>
    Oroblanco

    Coffee compadre? I wrung out the sock my self, just to be sure it is good and strong, like you!
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  3. #33
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    .... Ah-ha! Now lets see some documentation of that Navajo raid into Mexico! <Don't worry amigos I am a very patient person>
    Oroblanco
    I would be shocked to see this. I can't imagine why the Navajo would decide to pass all the way through Apacheria for a chance at stealing a few horses in Mexico. Based on the history between the two groups, and the usual outcome when they clashed, wouldn't this be a death wish?
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  4. #34

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Gentlemen,

    A few things to consider about Navajo raiding:

    The Navajo are considered to be the seventh tribe of the Apache. That being said, they often raided the Apache.

    The boundries of Mexico were not always as they are now.

    Look into their history from those perspectives.

    Take care,

    Joe

    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  5. #35
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1300 times

    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper
    Gentlemen,

    A few things to consider about Navajo raiding:

    The Navajo are considered to be the seventh tribe of the Apache. That being said, they often raided the Apache.

    The boundries of Mexico were not always as they are now.

    Look into their history from those perspectives.

    Take care,

    Joe
    Good point. If you consider where the Mexican 'border' was in the pre-1840's era, then Navajo raiding 'into Mexico' makes sense. In the context of the LAD legends, maybe not, since the Adams incident allegedly occured in the mid-1860's when the border was hundreds of miles further south.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  6. #36
    um
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    Jan 2005
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Well if memory serves, Navajos participated in a rather large fight right at Tucson with the Spanish and their Pima allies in the 1770's, which was technically in Mexico. They were helping Apaches in that particular fight. So are we talking Navajo raids down into what is today Chihuahua? Ay chihuahua!

    Oroblanco

    PS - Don Jose, the fresh coffee is almost done dripping out of the sock - ready for a refill?

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  7. #37
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11729 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Oro you have to ask It is 50% of the basis of my "O" neg blood. sigh. why it perks up the recipient of it, why many are now out producimg new kiddies a 150.

    Don jose de La Mancha

    p.s. you can leave the sock in the cup, let it drain the last of the pure goodies.
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  8. #38

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Roy,

    As I recall, you are correct. I believe the Navajo, along with some Apache allies, were doing a little horse shopping.

    In that era, both sides were raiding for "slaves". At times, they fought as a response to the slave raids.

    Take care,

    Joe
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  9. #39
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper
    Roy,

    As I recall, you are correct. I believe the Navajo, along with some Apache allies, were doing a little horse shopping.

    In that era, both sides were raiding for "slaves". At times, they fought as a response to the slave raids.

    Take care,

    Joe
    Hi Joe - what surprised me about that particular battle was the Navajos being allied with the Apaches, considering how hostile their history was. I think at least one source of the battle is online too, if anyone would like to read it I will hunt it up.

    My big problem with locating the Adams diggings so far south (in Chihuahua) is the Navajo link, which seems to suggest that Navajos or some sub-tribe of them had lived in the canyon or close to it at some point in the not so distant past. Another issue could well be the fort and road leading to it, which has been a major point of contention among Adams hunters. If there was a Navajo presence in Chihuahua, later driven out by Apaches, what American fort could have been so near by? Thank you in advance.

    Roy

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  10. #40
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11729 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    I don't have the story here, but was it specifically an American fort?

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  11. #41
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    Jan 2005
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    I don't have the story here, but was it specifically an American fort?

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Yes, Fort Wingate is usually the fort pointed to by most as "the" fort of the story, but I am not so sure that it was. I don't rule out Camp Grant either, though as mentioned in the other thread, it is some 75 miles from Dragoon wash (that other proposed site for the LAD) which would most probably be much more than four days travel with a wagon. I am guessing at a distance for wagon travel but judging from records from the pioneer days, ten to twelve miles was considered a good days travel. So four days travel would equate to less than 50 miles.

    Roy

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  12. #42
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    I don't have the story here, but was it specifically an American fort?

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    Yes, Fort Wingate is usually the fort pointed to by most as "the" fort of the story, but I am not so sure that it was. I don't rule out Camp Grant either, though as mentioned in the other thread, it is some 75 miles from Dragoon wash (that other proposed site for the LAD) which would most probably be much more than four days travel with a wagon. I am guessing at a distance for wagon travel but judging from records from the pioneer days, ten to twelve miles was considered a good days travel. So four days travel would equate to less than 50 miles.

    Roy

    Remember, the 'supply fort road' was a wagon road, but there were no wagons on the Adams expedition - saddle horses only. The only wagons mentioned in any of the versions were Adams' freight wagons, which were burned by the Indians before the prospecting trip, or so the story goes.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  13. #43
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11729 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Hi normally in flat land 30 - 50 miles a day was considered a day's travel. mountains ??

    Hmm 4 X 50 + = yep, north central Sonora. snicker

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  14. #44
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
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    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Springfield wrote
    Remember, the 'supply fort road' was a wagon road, but there were no wagons on the Adams expedition - saddle horses only. The only wagons mentioned in any of the versions were Adams' freight wagons, which were burned by the Indians before the prospecting trip, or so the story goes.
    The Brewer version has a wagon. Leading a string of pack horses or mules is not as speedy as just riding horseback too. In an unrelated subject I am currently working on, it was only with great difficulty that a string of pack mules were able to make 30 miles per day, and with considerable loss of cargo along the way. Also Gotchear's statement was just a verbal estimate, not the maximum distance a man on a horse could make, we don't know what exactly Gotchear meant by his estimate. he could have meant four days hike on foot!

    Don Jose de la Mancha wrote
    Remember, the 'supply fort road' was a wagon road, but there were no wagons on the Adams expedition - saddle horses only. The only wagons mentioned in any of the versions were Adams' freight wagons, which were burned by the Indians before the prospecting trip, or so the story goes.
    What was the name of that American fort down in Sonora again amigo? My memory fails me on this point. Thank you in advance.

    Oroblanco

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  15. #45
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
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    1300 times

    Re: Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco
    Springfield wrote
    Remember, the 'supply fort road' was a wagon road, but there were no wagons on the Adams expedition - saddle horses only. The only wagons mentioned in any of the versions were Adams' freight wagons, which were burned by the Indians before the prospecting trip, or so the story goes.
    The Brewer version has a wagon. ....
    Yes, Brewer came back through Springerville in a wagon years after the expedition, at least according to that version. As you recall, he escaped the Apache massacre on foot and allegedly was taken in by friendly Indians on the Rio Grande somewhere around present Soccorro, NM
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







 

 
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