Letter from Robert T. Emmet, and the Lost Adams Diggings

[Oroblanco]

I don't have the story here, but was it specifically an American fort?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Yes, Fort Wingate is usually the fort pointed to by most as "the" fort of the story, but I am not so sure that it was. I don't rule out Camp Grant either, though as mentioned in the other thread, it is some 75 miles from Dragoon wash (that other proposed site for the LAD) which would most probably be much more than four days travel with a wagon. I am guessing at a distance for wagon travel but judging from records from the pioneer days, ten to twelve miles was considered a good days travel. So four days travel would equate to less than 50 miles.

Roy

 

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[Springfield]

I don't have the story here, but was it specifically an American fort?

Don Jose de La Mancha

Yes, Fort Wingate is usually the fort pointed to by most as "the" fort of the story, but I am not so sure that it was. I don't rule out Camp Grant either, though as mentioned in the other thread, it is some 75 miles from Dragoon wash (that other proposed site for the LAD) which would most probably be much more than four days travel with a wagon. I am guessing at a distance for wagon travel but judging from records from the pioneer days, ten to twelve miles was considered a good days travel. So four days travel would equate to less than 50 miles.

Roy

Remember, the 'supply fort road' was a wagon road, but there were no wagons on the Adams expedition - saddle horses only. The only wagons mentioned in any of the versions were Adams' freight wagons, which were burned by the Indians before the prospecting trip, or so the story goes.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hi normally in flat land 30 - 50 miles a day was considered a day's travel. mountains ??

Hmm 4 X 50 + = yep, north central Sonora. snicker

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Springfield wrote

Remember, the 'supply fort road' was a wagon road, but there were no wagons on the Adams expedition - saddle horses only. The only wagons mentioned in any of the versions were Adams' freight wagons, which were burned by the Indians before the prospecting trip, or so the story goes.

The Brewer version has a wagon. Leading a string of pack horses or mules is not as speedy as just riding horseback too. In an unrelated subject I am currently working on, it was only with great difficulty that a string of pack mules were able to make 30 miles per day, and with considerable loss of cargo along the way. Also Gotchear's statement was just a verbal estimate, not the maximum distance a man on a horse could make, we don't know what exactly Gotchear meant by his estimate. he could have meant four days hike on foot!

Don Jose de la Mancha wrote

Remember, the 'supply fort road' was a wagon road, but there were no wagons on the Adams expedition - saddle horses only. The only wagons mentioned in any of the versions were Adams' freight wagons, which were burned by the Indians before the prospecting trip, or so the story goes.

What was the name of that American fort down in Sonora again amigo? My memory fails me on this point. Thank you in advance.

Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Springfield wrote

Remember, the 'supply fort road' was a wagon road, but there were no wagons on the Adams expedition - saddle horses only. The only wagons mentioned in any of the versions were Adams' freight wagons, which were burned by the Indians before the prospecting trip, or so the story goes.

The Brewer version has a wagon. ....

Yes, Brewer came back through Springerville in a wagon years after the expedition, at least according to that version. As you recall, he escaped the Apache massacre on foot and allegedly was taken in by friendly Indians on the Rio Grande somewhere around present Soccorro, NM

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Update:

I obtained from the Arizona History and Archives Division a transcript of the original ms. that is in their collection.

Mitchell, for the most part, copied the letter correctly. I don't have permission to reproduce the entire letter here, so I will not.

However, I will provide one paragraph (the next to last one) Mitchell did not include in his book as part of the letter. Rather, he included it in his own narrative, slightly changing it to state "a scouting party" found the two men.

From the Emmet letter:

"The first settlement they struck was Fort West, now abandoned, which is on the Gila River, about 25 miles from Silver City."

Mitchell opined "The mine is located north of the Fort and probably near the headwaters of the Prieto (Black) River."

One final point. Emmet's letter states Adams and another man left for supplies, and that Adams and his companions waited for those two to return to the Diggings.

Most accounts, of course, have Adams returning and finding the other miners massacred, which is why he survived.

The final paragraph of the Emmet letter:

"The man who escaped with Adams was killed in Texas by a herd of cattle, I think. Adams, I think, is still living. I have given all I remember of the facts."

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
(Back in the saddle again)

 

[cactusjumper]

Update:

I obtained from the Arizona History and Archives Division a transcript of the original ms. that is in their collection.

Mitchell, for the most part, copied the letter correctly. I don't have permission to reproduce the entire letter here, so I will not.

However, I will provide one paragraph (the next to last one) Mitchell did not include in his book as part of the letter. Rather, he included it in his own narrative, slightly changing it to state "a scouting party" found the two men.

From the Emmet letter:

"The first settlement they struck was Fort West, now abandoned, which is on the Gila River, about 25 miles from Silver City."

Mitchell opined "The mine is located north of the Fort and probably near the headwaters of the Prieto (Black) River."

One final point. Emmet's letter states Adams and another man left for supplies, and that Adams and his companions waited for those two to return to the Diggings.

Most accounts, of course, have Adams returning and finding the other miners massacred, which is why he survived.

The final paragraph of the Emmet letter:

"The man who escaped with Adams was killed in Texas by a herd of cattle, I think. Adams, I think, is still living. I have given all I remember of the facts."

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo
(Back in the saddle again)

OB,

Is the above location even possible?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Joe:

Is Camp "West" a mistake in the typescript? The 1864 Map of the Military Department of New Mexico shows a Camp "Wist" that appears to be in the proper location (just east of the border between the New Mexico and Arizona Territories; at the bottom of this portion of the Map). Silver City isn't shown.

This shows the "headwaters" of the Prieto River - above the "C" and the "H" in "A P A C H E S" to the west in the Arizona Territory and below the "E" and the "R" in "C O Y O T E R O." The location also appears to the in the Mogollon Mountains.

 

[cactusjumper]

OB,

Those old maps were often inaccurate. I believe Fort West was a temporary site, in 1863-1864. It may have been replaced by Ft. Bayard and was north of Silver City. I believe it was out in the flats, rather than in the mountains.

Interesting puzzle.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Joe:

I think that map is more accurate than most. The Fort Wist on the map appears to be on the Gila. I haven't been able to locate any additional (reliable) information on either a Fort Wist or Fort West.

Capt. Allen Anderson was on the ground and spent a long time on this map, so until shown something new I'm going with what it says.

2.0: I just another look at the "Explanation of Signs" and Fort Wist was abandoned at the time this map was issued. The map is dated "1864" but the most recent "Authority" cited is January 1866.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

3.0: I downloaded this map and the detail remained. You can probably expand it on your computer and read it easily. The colors washed out - hard to see the blue rivers, and the American Flag on the "occupied" posts is not distinct. Overall, I found the map remarkably readable.

 

[Springfield]

Joe:

I think that map is more accurate than most. The Fort Wist on the map appears to be on the Gila. I haven't been able to locate any additional (reliable) information on either a Fort Wist or Fort West.

Capt. Allen Anderson was on the ground and spent a long time on this map, so until shown something new I'm going with what it says....

I've always liked this particular map, although, as Joe mentioned, it does contain some innacuracies, as all the maps of the period did. Some of the rivers and mountain ranges are misnamed and/or misplaced, at least according to today's tags. We also have to remember that place names change as time goes by - a phenomenon that often plagues researchers. Overall, I've seen much worse.

Fort West is located accurately - it was near today's Gila, NM, where Bear Creek joins the Gila River. It's river bottom terrain with steeper country to the east and north. Silver City is located at the map's 'Ojo de San Vicente'. These two sites are mapped acceptably for the times, IMO.

I've tended to favor Fort West as the 'LAD Fort' (assuming the LAD is a true story of course) because of its proximity to gold - the Pinos Altos gold camp east at the head of Bear Creek, and several gold sites in the Mogollons northerly. The other LAD-touted fort, Wingate, has no appreciable mineralization nearby.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Springfield:

Thank you. I respect your opinion(s) and I appreciate your post.

Is Fort "Wist" correct - or is it "West?" I've inquired with the Arizona State Archives - emailed the nice lady who provided the typescript of the Emmet letter.

I've come to believe Harry Sinclair Drago in Lost Bonanzas did a better job with the LAD story than many modern researchers credit. Overall, Jack Purcell's book remains the best I've ever read.

I've ordered a new book from Amazon supposedly written by a long-time searcher - should be here soon. I've post a review once I've read it and pondered the contents.

I've also started going through some of the Frontier Times articles. They have the advantage of being closer to the time - less "contamination," if you will.

I will be interested on your thoughts regarding Fort "Wist" vs. "West."

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Springfield]

Springfield:

Thank you. I respect your opinion(s) and I appreciate your post.

Is Fort "Wist" correct - or is it "West?" I've inquired with the Arizona State Archives - emailed the nice lady who provided the typescript of the Emmet letter.

I've come to believe Harry Sinclair Drago in Lost Bonanzas did a better job with the LAD story than many modern researchers credit. Overall, Jack Purcell's book remains the best I've ever read.

I've ordered a new book from Amazon supposedly written by a long-time searcher - should be here soon. I've post a review once I've read it and pondered the contents.

I've also started going through some of the Frontier Times articles. They have the advantage of being closer to the time - less "contamination," if you will.

I will be interested on your thoughts regarding Fort "Wist" vs. "West."

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

It's West - named for General Joseph West. I'm not sure how that incorrect map label occured. The fort was only in service a year and was moved to Cookes Canyon northeast of today's Deming, NM, where it was renamed Fort Cummings. What a history that place had! By the way, on second thought, I believe Fort West was located a few miles further south of the location I previously mentioned.

A new book? Care to share its title?

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Howdy, Springfield!

Thank you. I figured you'd have the right answer.

In the late 1960's Ed Bartholomew reprinted Parker's Annals of Old Fort Cummings. With modern reprinting being so inexpensive, there are other editions out there at prices considerably lower than one of his "collector's items."

The LAD book I'm waiting for is Die Rich Here: The Lost Adams Diggings by Ralph Reynolds (2012). I'll let you know what I think of it after reading it (unlike some of the "reviewers" on Amazon I prefer to actually read the book first).

Thanks again!

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Springfield]

Thanks Bookaroo. I remember reading the first ten or fifteen pages of that book on Google Books a while back and decided then not to buy it. I'll be interested in your opinion.

I've been trying to track down printed information on Jacob Snively, an interesting person from the early southwest, ranging from the Santa Fe Trail to Pinos Altos to Arizona. I've found several mentions of him by various writers, but not a lot of detail. I wonder if you can suggest any sources? Snively is sometimes linked to the Adams legends.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Howdy!

Jack Purcell posted some good information on him a while ago here on TN.

I've been working for quite some time on a piece about his hunt for a lost gold placer in Texas - covered in Dobie's Legends of Texas and "Rascoe's" Golden Crescent. Actually, this was the second of his two expeditions. It's a heck of a story (although this episode in his life doesn't have much to do with the LAD).

I sold two copies of my reprint of the Byerts' LAD pamphlet on Amazon not long ago - so I have a little loose change to spend on more LAD literature. I've got a couple more copies around here someplace and when those are gone that will probably be that.

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[cactusjumper]

OB,

"I sold two copies of my reprint of the Byerts' LAD pamphlet on Amazon not long ago - so I have a little loose change to spend on more LAD literature. I've got a couple more copies around here someplace and when those are gone that will probably be that."

Believe I may have bought one of those.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Joe:

I believe you did - and I will again say "Thank you very much!" There were two orders on the same day - go figure!

I raised the price for the last few I have - they will only become harder and harder to find.

I'm working on a collection of LAD articles from the pioneer newspapers of the 19th and early 20th century. Along the lines of Ed Bartholomew's books (and Wayne Winters' interesting Forgotten Mines and Treasures of the Great Southwest (1972)).

One of the very interesting threads is the Patterson Expedition that went out to search for the LAD on the Navajo Indian Reservation. It did not report success - and led to an effort to force open the reservation land for mineral exploration.

Prof. Dobie doesn't discuss this expedition, which I think is just one example of many that went out there.

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

PS: Speaking of Prof. Dobie, I just noticed that his classic Apache Gold and Yaqui Silver LAD bibliography includes the Emmet letter!

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Dear Mr Bookaroo

I am new to this website and am finding it throughly enjoyable looking through the various threads about different topics.

My orginal interest started with learning about the Apaches in the Southwest of the USA, and it gradually snowballed from there.

I have been fortunate enough to visit Arizona on holiday and must say what a throughly amazing place with surreal scenery it actually is. Being based in England means it is very difficult to do any "field research", but I am considering making regular visits in the future.

The question(s) I wish to pose to you, I wrote - well e-mailed anyway - to Mr J Purcell after reading his throughly interesting and thought-provoking book on the LAD mystery.

I would be grateful if perhaps you may be able to shed any light in what I think are pertinent points, and as you take an academic and evidence based approach, I would welcome any feedback.

1) Regarding Nana the Apache chief, he only rose to prominence in the 1880s and was always considered a subordinate to Victorio, Loco, Mangus - son of Mangas Coloradas and others of the Chihenne/Warm Springs/Mogollon/Mimbres Apaches of New Mexico. They have been variously described in the various names given - amongst others - and are generally accepted as the eastern branch of the Chiricahua. He only assumed part leadership of the remaining eastern tribe after the death of Victorio at Tres Castillas in Chihuahua State - Mexico. In a book written about the Chiricahua, the son of Juh - leader of the Nednhi southern branch of Chiricahua who were from old Mexico, states that the Chihenne were short of ammunition and Nana had taken some warriors to a place where they tried to recover some silver bars they had buried after a raid on a mule train in order to buy supplies from some ranchers the Apache were on friendly terms with. That is how he avoided being killed with Victorio at the time. No doubt he was a leading warrior and even a sub-chief but never as important as some would consider. He also lived until the 1890s - longer than Adams - and very well knew the value of minerals and the status they held/hold. It is very hard to believe he would have been recognised by Adams or anyone else in his party and would have had exclusivity with knowing the site when he had real enemies within his own band and others within the Apache nation. I believe that this is a misleading strand to the whole story and simply deflects attention. Nana had close links with the Mescalero Apaches and often found refuge on their reservation.




2) As Mr Purcell's book states, Snively was highly likely to be the 'German' referred to by Adams, and if he managed to get out and took his gold to Pinos Altos, what was stopping him going back when he wanted to?? Surely as a prospector and miner who had extensive knowledge of such things, he would not have found it as difficult to seek out the site again?? Why would he have looked for other sites afterwards if he was privy to such a fabulous location?? Could the gold he brought in have been from the cabin after the so-called massacre??




3) Could it really be possible that 2 sites - the Diggings and the site the guide wished to came them to the one between "Two Peaks" - both not be found until now?? Surely if they were as rich and extensive as has been said, then some sort of discovery would have been made?? Geronimo was actually asked in captivity whilst in Fort Sill - Okhahoma, as was Naiche the son of Cochise, whether they knew of any such secret locations, Geronimo stated that he knew of such a place in the Gaudalupe Mountains of New Mexico and and Naiche said that he knew of such places deep within Sonora-Mexico. Maybe the site was not as big and perhaps someone did discover it, maybe even Brewer returned to it, and more or less 'cleaned' it out. Pure guess work on my part.




4) During the 1920s, an old Apache who had been on the warpath with the last free Chiricahua including Nana, Geronimo, Naiche and Chihuahua, tried to get back into old Mexico's Sierra Madre mountains as he knew of a cache of gold in those mountains. My point is this, if there was such a place as the LAD and the Apache knew of it, would they have not tried to make the most of it once they had embraced western ways and values??




It would be very interesting to know what your views are on the above points and I sincerely hope that you can reply.

I appreciate some of the questions may have been previously covered by other threads or commenters, but I have not yet come across them and would like the opinion of an experienced head who has solid knowledge on such matters.

Many thanks for any information and/or details you may be able to furnish.

Kind regards

Interested Party in UK

 

[alfonzo]

Lost Adam's Diggings

Dear IP in UK, i would be interested in where i could find this info you mentioned:
4) During the 1920s, an old Apache who had been on the warpath with the last free Chiricahua including Nana, Geronimo, Naiche and Chihuahua, tried to get back into old Mexico's Sierra Madre mountains as he knew of a cache of gold in those mountains.

i would like to visit one of the rancherias the apaches used in the Sierra Madres but likely will never make it at this stage in my life. Much Thanks, alan