Im calling out TreasureForce for their LAD claims

[Crow]

Hello Don Jose

What Have you Done? I think sir its not what you have done?

Hmm what page are we up to pray tell? That book everyone has been hassling you over Some of us will not live to 160 so quick stalling.

Crow

 

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[Interested Party in UK]

Hello Crow

Been 'off-site' for a while. Hope your trip on the high seas went well. May you never lose that sense of adventure or the can-do attitude.

Interesting story about the Cocos Islands. Many are sceptical about that particular place, but there is no denying that in times past, it was most definitely used by passing sailors, pirates, adventurers and settlers. In amongst all the hyperbole, fantasy and lies, there are nuggets (excuse the pun please) of true and factual successful hunts such as that old seadawg shared with you. Most will never get to see, experience or touch such items, places or people who have been there and done it. Like most folk, unless you are directly involved and active in the field, nearly all of your knowledge and understanding will come from third or fourth-hand sources. You have done it so do not feel the need to "show-off", most only do this to prove some nonsense to themselves or others such as these groups who claim fantastical findings.

There are such places in Europe (and most likely across the rest of the world) where humongous deals are done regarding gold, diamonds, emeralds, ancient precious artefacts on a regular basis. A more concerted effort by authorities to 'crackdown' has just driven these people further underground. But. They exist and at the top-end, are extremely wealthy and secretive. I do not think it is worthwhile to moralise on such issues - who can really say what un/fortunate circumstances brought about such situations and hardship?

I would always take a punt on chaps like the one you encountered existing and keeping extremely quiet unless they brought into their circle and then divulged. I would also say that I would bet that such a group is becoming smaller and smaller due to society's need for stability and safety, and the public's wish to take less and less risks. The places to find, locate and uncover treasures has not diminished; what has, is the appetite for such unpredictable careers. Even when 'adventurers' go to places like you and others have been and then write books to tell their 'stories', more often than not they have 'assistants' in tow, with guides, security and even an agreement letter from publishers about their book deal!

I would say that the same situation exists for the LAD, Llanganatis/Inca treasure and others, in that they all started off real enough with people, times and places in real situations, but through twists of fate and sheer distances and timescales, they got muddled and jumbled along the way. Again, some folk did make considerable fortunes from these instances, but now you would only look into such stories to evidence it all from a historical and mystery point of view. Do not even a single person let themselves be deluded that they will be the one to find that particular treasure. That is not to say that there are still many mysteries and caches to uncover, after all, until very recently, the world was often looking for ways to secrete their fortunes and ill-gotten gains.

 

[Crow]

Hello Interested Party in UK.

Still on my voyage on my laptop on the deck as it hot in Tahiti and late. I am on night watch. had a bad neck as late, too much living it up. Some of girl crew has been given me massages of late but still gives me muscle spasm on one side of neck. Once it settles down we will leave for America Samoa. I must admit every day I wake up I have pinch myself. No real job. No boss chewing my ass, no deadlines, no mortgage. Money in bank regardless of whether I get up in the morning, drowning in Eye candy as If I had died and gone to heaven. Hell I am the luckiest man alive.

Many people think they are Real treasure hunters and even some famous ones in the media. But most of them aren't.

The smart ones are mostly from very humble origins that graduated through the university of Hardknocks that shun the media like poison as their currency is invisibility. They can fly so low under the proverbial radar that you would pass them in the street and you never know. They are not glamorous as the ones portrayed on TV. Hell the ones I know will never win any beauty contests and they will definitely never grace their presence on treasure hunting reality shows. They walk a fine line between the legal and illegal. They never ever Call themselves treasure hunters. They never ever leave themselves open for incrimination as they are professionals of what they do with a passion unequaled.

They are the masters of smoke and mirrors and play the cards closest to their chest even to their closes friends or family they never reveal all. Its is not in their nature. They are experts in several languages modern and ancient. History and Archeology and several other useful vocations. They can fish for information better than most intelligence agency's. It because of this some governments will turn a blind eye to some of their activities. That and the amount of dirt they have on various governments for insurance. They have a hidden network of go to people for certain skills that they will under no circumstances ever betray. They work behind the scenes and work globally, usually here today gone tomorrow. They have connections and deal all over the world with impunity as There can channel wealth through various offshore banks and companies. They never commit themselves without masses of quality research. They will have deals you never hear of and manipulate events to thier advantage from behind the scenes. They have no loyalties to no country but themselves.

Their organizations skills are second to none. They can assemble teams of skilled people from all over the world and vanish as quickly into obscurity as needed. Yet you will never hear about them like they never existed.

They my friend are the top shelf, the unseen and unheard of, the nameless.

And how do I know all this me I am just an old bum that came across one by chance who gave me a rare insight into a world seldom seen. How many you ask are on this level and active world wide today? About perhaps no more than 8-10

Crow

 

[UncleMatt]

Does anyone have access to any records from the Pino Altos entity that purchased the gold from Jacob Snively? The 60 to 70 pounds he supposedly sold there from the LAD? In other words, is there any documentation available that proves that actually occurred? Please post or PM me with it if you have it, or point me in the right direction please!

 

[Springfield]

Does anyone have access to any records from the Pino Altos entity that purchased the gold from Jacob Snively? The 60 to 70 pounds he supposedly sold there from the LAD? In other words, is there any documentation available that proves that actually occurred? Please post or PM me with it if you have it, or point me in the right direction please!

I live in Pinos Altos and have been trying to validate that story for years, with no luck so far. The first mention I came across was in Black Range Tales (page 399, my copy) in a story told by Jason Baxter. Others later probably used the same reference. For what it's worth, Snively allegedly sold the gold in Yuma after leaving Pinos Altos. Good luck - please let us know if you find anything. Snively is a very intriguing actor of the times.

 

[UncleMatt]

I live in Pinos Altos and have been trying to validate that story for years, with no luck so far. The first mention I came across was in Black Range Tales (page 399, my copy) in a story told by Jason Baxter. Others later probably used the same reference. For what it's worth, Snively allegedly sold the gold in Yuma after leaving Pinos Altos. Good luck - please let us know if you find anything. Snively is a very intriguing actor of the times.

Thanks! I have observed people in threads about the LAD here acting as if that had all been proven long ago. I remember someone talking about the actual weight and scale used to make the sale as well. I guess I need to go read back through the previous postings. Shout out if you know what I am referring to!

And by the by, I was operating from the conclusion of Jack Purcell that the "Dutchman" who sold the gold in Pinos Altos was Jacob Snively. That might not be correct...

 

[UncleMatt]

Springfield, I need to come down and visit you some day! Or if you are ever up in Albuquerque, let me know! Drinks are on me!

 

[Jason in Enid]

treasureforce - YouTube

Here he is. I asked him to send me a private message, but didn't hear a whisper from him. Imagine that.

He is also paying for fake video views and subscriptions. look at this:

Treasureforce Monthly YouTube Statistics - Socialblade YouTube Stats

see those giant spike in views and subs? That only happens when you pay a company to boost your stats with bots.

 

[Springfield]

Thanks! I have observed people in threads about the LAD here acting as if that had all been proven long ago. I remember someone talking about the actual weight and scale used to make the sale as well. I guess I need to go read back through the previous postings. Shout out if you know what I am referring to!

And by the by, I was operating from the conclusion of Jack Purcell that the "Dutchman" who sold the gold in Pinos Altos was Jacob Snively. That might not be correct...

First, a correction - the BRT page number should be 39, not 399.

People tend to embellish their stories and are apt to overlook facts that might get in the way. In the first place, gold was money then - better than paper - why sell it? If he didn't want to haul that much weight around, and decided to get paper money instead, I doubt if anyone in Pinos Altos had enough paper money to pay Snively for that much gold in 1864 (the alleged LAD year). Sure, Pinos Altos was booming for the first couple years of its existence (1860-61), but bad Apache trouble and the Civil War pretty much emptied the place for years after that. It seems more likely that if he did sell the gold, it would be somewhere else (if he had it to begin with, of course). Yuma? Makes sense, since he was active in mining there in the late 1850's and also had connections in CA since the '40's.

I agree with Purcell - Snively is a good candidate as the LAD Dutchman. If there was a LAD. It's tough to piece together events that far back - most of what you read about it is baloney, IMO. I do like Snively though.

 

[TrunkMonkey]

"UncleMatt;3794736]I feel a little odd doing this, but yet another soul is out there claiming to have found the LAD. He may already be posting here, I dont' know, but he goes by "Hutton Pulitzer" on Facebook, and I believe he is the owner of Treasureforce. Today he posted an article about the Ark of the Covenant, and I called him on some of his conclusions. I also called him on his LAD claims. His response is below:"

FYI:

In case you guys don't know, this guy is actually Jovan Philyaw and pretty much disliked by many in Silicon Valley for his "CueCat" farce. Investors lost over 100 million, some big companies got hit hard. One reporter calls him out for his shady marketing and even accusing him of out right lies...you be the judge, but I am with UncleMatt...always listen to your Uncle...lol.

 

[UncleMatt]

Are there any records in Pinos Altos that might show if anyone was listed as a gold merchant at that time Springfield? At the county or any local museums? Or is there a list of merchants at all from that time period?

I am also curious if New Mexico Tech might have some records in their Adam's Archive. I will try to get down there before spring to run that down. Let me know if you come across anything, and I will do the same.

 

[UncleMatt]

Thanks for that heads up TrunkMonkey! MUCH APPRECIATED!

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Interested Party in UK:

Thank you for your kind words!

The book Mammy Pleasant's Partner by Helen O'Donnell Holdredge (1954) contains a brief account of a Cocos Island treasure recovery. The proceeds were used to purchase the famous New Almaden quicksilver mine in California. Apparently the plunder had only been hidden a short time - this appears to have been in the gray area between treasure hunting and theft.

Our Search for the Missing Millions (of Cocos Island) by One of the Searchers (1904) is a very interesting account of a failed treasure hunt. Privately printed in San Francisco, I believe most copies were destroyed in the Fire and Earthquake of 1906. You can read about the venture in the excellent Voyage of the Herman. Had the author of that excellent work known about Our Search... some gaps in the story might have been filled.

Many readers have found E.F. Knight's The Cruise of the "Alerte" in Search of Treasure (1891) to be interesting. I know I have. Knight was a newspaper correspondent along with Stephen Crane and Richard Harding Davis during the Spanish American War. He lost an arm in World War I and continued to enjoy yachting - giving more truth to the term "single-handed sailing" than he probably cared for.

For summaries of many famous treasures and treasure hunts - and certainly more accurate accounts than most (including a chapter on Oak Island) it's difficult to match Robert Nesmith's Dig for Pirate Treasure (1958). When I first started collecting treasure literature I purchased many items from Bob's old Foul Anchor Archives mailorder operation. From time to time you can still find books and pamphlets with his sticker on the inside back or front cover.

You might enjoy William La Verre's Gold, Diamonds and Orchids (1935) and Southward Ho! A Treasure Hunter in South America (1940). I highly recommend Bingham's Lost City of the Incas (not a very original suggestion, I'm afraid) and the first-rate Valverde's Gold - which will probably lead you to several other books.

Percy Fawcett's Lost Trails, Lost Cities (1953) is one you are probably familiar with. David Grann's recent The Lost City of Z; A Tale of Deadly Obsession in the Amazon (2010) I found quite good.

Hope these titles provide you with some clues to further reading!

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

UncleMatt:

I believe they a very brief YouTube video purporting to show a huge recovery of Civil War treasure. Someone had the nerve to comment the video didn't really show anything at all.

The TreasureForce response was on the order of "we can't really show you anything..." Well, they certainly didn't!

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Interested Party in UK:

Here are a few more suggestions:

Ralph D. Paine's Book of Buried Treasure; Being a True History of the Gold, Jewels, and Plate of Pirates, Galleons, etc., Which Are Sought for to This Day (1911) is an absolute classic - a cornerstone book for any treasure library. It was Paine who found buried in the British archives Capt. Kidd's missing "French Passes." It's doubtful they would have saved Kidd from the hangman's noose, because his King and government were determined to get rid of him. The fact the government went to such lengths to hide them, however, makes it clear how important they were. Perhaps they could have rescued "Our Trusty and Beloved Captain William Kidd" (King William).

Two more classics are Lost Treasure; True Tales of Hidden Hoards (1930) and They Found Gold! The Story of Successful Treasure Hunts (1936) by A. Hyatt Verrill. Verrill is one of the most accurate treasure writers I've read. And - unlike many other authors - he was an explorer and adventurer who actually visited many of the locales he wrote about.

Rolf Blomberg's Buried Gold and Anacondas (1959) is an entertaining South America book about lost cities and lost Inca gold. It's a good title to go with Valverde's Gold.

You didn't ask about fiction. However, there is much to be learned from David Dodge's Plunder of the Sun. Hardcase Crime reprinted it, so there are plenty of inexpensive used paperback copies out there. It is one of the most realistic novels about treasure hunting I've read.

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[Crow]

Trouble with these shows..

film directors expect to find stuff on cue....

In the real treasure hunting world it is years of trawling through archive and patient research through records. With long period of no results on the ground. Not quite as exciting as the movies how they always find the crucial information in a matter of seconds. Expedition can be long complex expensive enterprise with endless round of head aches. In the movies the hero of the story just waltz's into a countries usually with a pretty girl in tow with non customs border security in sight. Of the course the mandatory screen short of our hero rippling six pack as he beats off the baddies and always to miss the 50 million bullets fired at him. And of course what who a movies be with out mandatory explosion without at least baddie flying through the air. In slow motion of course.

Reality or unreality shows I call them are cheap blend of fact and fiction. in reality to many people real treasure hunting would be very boring to them as the the general population today has a 2 second attention span. Reality shows only achieve one thing? They create a false impression of what a treasure hunting is. In fact the more these shows are aired the more the fuel will be added to the fire of PROPAGANDA that bureaucrats and archeologists will use to burn real treasure hunters. Before long even beaches will be off limits and various places even more legislated to be off limits to the humble old guy swing a metal detector.

That's why real I hold them with disdain and great contempt.

Enough said

Crow

 

[Old Bookaroo]

TrunkMonkey:

Not long ago UncleMatt ordered from me a copy of my reprint of the famous Byerts' Lost Adams pamphlet. I had a couple of different orders going and somehow I managed to send him two copies instead of one. He immediately let me know and promptly returned one of them to me!

So - I certainly trust Uncle Matt!

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo

 

[UncleMatt]

Bookaroo, do you know of any documentation of the 60 to 70 pounds of gold the Dutchman supposedly sold in Pinos Altos in the early 1860's? I honestly thought that was documented somewhere.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bookaroo, Have you ever read "Enchanted Vagabonds" by Dan & Ginger Lamb? They spent some time on Cocos, just the two of them , searching for treasure. NO! they didn't find any since they had to cut their trip short due to Dana falling on his machete and requiring med help. They were instrumental in founding the "Adventurers club" in L.A.

They were famous for constructing a modified canoe and sailing down the west coast of Mexico etc., and through the Canal. while living off of the country.

We were personal friends, in fact they turned me towards Mexico and Latin America instead of Asia and Polynesia. Sorry Crow.

Don Jose de La Mancha

More Information About The Adventurers' Club of Los Angeles <-- Lots of interesting storis there.

 

[Old Bookaroo]

RdTTT:

Those names are familiar - although I have not read Enchanted Vagabonds. I will look for it, to add to my Cocos collection.

There is a book about a lost city (it is titled Lost City?) in Mexico that I believe was written by the Lambs. I have the paperback - and I'll confess that, like so many volumes I own, I've never gotten around to actually reading it. A personal failing, perhaps, but a common habit that keeps booksellers such as myself in rice and beans.

Good luck to all,

~ The Old Bookaroo