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Thread: Detailed route to Adams gold

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  1. #16
    us
    Jul 2012
    Albuqerque, NM / Durango, CO
    Garrett Infinium & Gold Bug II, Bazooka Super Prospector Sluice
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Dang, a new LAD thread!

  2. #17
    mt
    Sep 2014
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    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Interested Party in UK View Post
    I contacted Jack Purcell regarding his definitive book on the LAD about some questions I had concerning various aspects which, for me, did not sit quite rightly. He, to date, has made the most thorough attempt to get to the bottom of this intriguing mystery.

    Personally, I am no expert on mining, geography, topography or history. I only came across this story through my interest with all things Chiricahua Apache. I believe the value of the site was played up in later years to attract investors and attain coverage. There is no denying that the basic elements are real and evidenced enough. I cannot accept that the mighty Nana, sub-chief of the Chihenne Apache played the role he has previously been attested to. There are many reasons for this. My belief is that the original site was not as rich as first suggested and might have played out quickly and the group attempted to do a little scouting near where they had originally stopped and the mysterious 'Dutchman' (in all likelihood Snively) had obtained his share and then left, they, the group that is, tried to make a camp to work the richer site which was originally mentioned by their guide. They were probably killed by Apaches and some got away. Perhaps when Adams in later years made a greater emphasis to try and find the container of gold buried under the fireplace/hearth, he knew that they had retrieved much of the placer which was available. Maybe Purcell was quite correct in his assumption that Brewster returned many years later and quietly left for Mexico where he was evidently a rich man, and that he had found what was buried. There was probably plenty of hyperbole involved when describing the site, but obviously it was a decent find that enriched some pretty quickly.

    In the last decade of the heroic, yet ultimately futile Apache resistance in which old Nana, Chihuahua, Juh, Geronimo, Victorio, Naiche, Kayatennah, Mangus and the rest played their part (1876-1886), they understood and valued gold as much as anyone and were absolutely desperate to retrieve it to buy ammunition, horses, supplies etc..
    They would have collected any such available gold had they had the opportunity. Old Nana didn't pass away until 1896, there was plenty of opportunity for folks to talk to him whilst he was in captivity. When Geronimo and Naiche were asked about the most favourable locations for finding gold, Naiche replied he knew of some locations in the Sierra Madre mountains that Cochise had as a winter camping ground. Geronimo replied that he knew of some spots in the Guadalupe mountains on the Texas border side in the US southwest. They really had nothing to lose then. The Pima, Papagoe and Navajoe scouts - even the Apache scouts later on - had no affinity towards the renegade Chiricahua and would easily have given up the site had it been a popular and well known one to the native people.

    Sdcfia is very practical in his observations in that it was more than likely a site that was mined under a different name and the location was discovered in the past. Even Adams played up the gold pot in later years as oppose to the site itself and perhaps this is a small indication that he knew that the location was not as rich as first made out and was more or less played out.

    An intriguing story and saga nonetheless.
    We all have our biases when it comes to the Lost Adams Diggings. Mine tend to downplay the versions emphasizing the "Brewer-Tenney-Springerville-Wingate-Mormon characters" scenarios, which didn't come to the public's attention until 1928, beginning with Byerts. I know Jack endorsed The First Hundred Years of Nino Cochise (I don't know if he still does), which introduces accounts of the "Mormon players" later in their lives, having relocated to Mexico. The reliability of the Nino Cochise stories has been strongly challenged by many. I could be wrong, but I feel much of that book was fabricated, including the part concerning the former LAD characters. The book was published in 1971, well after the Byerts version and others were known.

    It seems Purcell questioned why the Byerts account was so late (sixty years after the events) coming to the table - involving LDS members and territory. He speculated whether there may have been some sort of camouflaging of events resulting from the Mountain Meadows Massacre and the mystery of John D. Lee's secret silver mine. Possibly unknown events were rebranded and spliced into the LAD legends for some sort of damage control. I don't have much of an opinion about it one way or another. The reason I downplay these versions of the LAD story is because of logistics and geology.

    I agree that the Apaches knew the value of gold and traded with it whenever they could manage to. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it was reported by Cozzens that in the 1850s Mangas Coloradas had a gold mine of his own somewhere in the Gila headwaters region. A logical choice for this location would be in the Pinos Altos-Santa Rita vicinity, where much gold was later mined. Regarding what the Apaches told Anglos about rich gold mines here and there - I don't put much faith in any of their tales. Frankly, Apaches tended to be very accomplished liars when dealing with Anglos. They weren't stupid. Why divulge this sort of information? They were screwed by Mexicans for years and also by Anglos for years. They knew the score.

    I also support your idea that the Adams Diggings was likely rediscovered by others and worked out. My contention is that the diggings were in Bear Creek, which were first discovered by Snively in 1860, reworked by the Adams party - led by Snively, IMO - in 1863, and relocated by the original Pinos Altos miners in 1864 when the reduction in Indian trouble allowed them to return. The claims were patented in 1866, and worked empty during the remainder of the 19th century, for the most part. I don't believe that these golden sands are still waiting for a lucky pilgrim - I believe they were totally exploited a hundred years ago.

    Now, the richer diggings above the placer deposit - that's another story altogether. Local legends centering around "dos piloncillos" are much more interesting than the Bear Creek placers - rich as they were in the 1860s. That's a topic for another thread.

  3. #18
    um
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    Quote Originally Posted by motel6.5 View Post
    The name I have for the German is Emil Schaeffer, made it back to Germany. This may or may not be true. Another version I read stated the Germans body was found with his horse years latter without a name. A Horse with No Name I know was a song by a group whose Name I for-got.
    Wow - Emil Schaeffer - sometimes you amigos surprise me (in a pleasant way) as I did not think anyone had turned up that name besides me! I don't know whether to believe Schaeffer was the Dutchman of the story or not, but he is another good candidate.

    This is just OPINION but one has to wonder, if the placer were nearly played out, one might think the Adams party was in the process of packing up/finishing up to leave, yet in contrast Adams spent years hunting for the mine, only later focusing on the pot/cache, which makes sense as physically we get older the hard work of mining might look very much less attractive. <Actions speak louder than words>

    The Bear Creek placer is a good candidate for the idea of the mine being found and worked out under a different name. Jack Purcell is a member here on T-net (HighMountain) and might be coaxed into joining the discussion. Richard French is also a member here (author of Four Days from Fort Wingate and a new book) so with a little luck we can get them to join in. I may have offended Mr French by my skeptical post in another thread, which I regret as I think he is a very good writer (I love his book Four Days-Wingate) but perhaps he can overlook that.

    Have to agree on how much credence we can put in some of the later sources we have. I am of the opinion that the oldest sources (being closest to events) are usually the most reliable, for there is less time and opportunities for errors, misconceptions, deliberate falsehoods and worst of all mixing of different unrelated stories to have occurred. The oldest versions I could find of the Adams story are missing much of the later details, and has the only other survivor as a man named Davison or Davidson, whom unfortunately did not recover and died shortly after the two men were picked up by a cavalry patrol. Most of you have figured out that fort Wingate did not exist in the time span when the Adams events really occurred, but (again referring to the older versions) the fort is not actually named so could have been Ft West or even another fort entirely. To further confuse things there is a second lost Adams mine story that has been mixed together, involving an Indian trader named Henry Adams and a hard rock (lode) inside the Navajo reservation. Henry Adams did go in to Fort Wingate too and showed his gold quartz to several people there, as his story occurred when Ft Wingate did exist. But even the name Sno-ta-hay is Navajo, at least that is what a Navajo friend told me, and he insisted that it is not really a proper name, more like a sentence similar to the popular understanding of 'there it lies' or 'there it is'.

    I am getting carried away here but I am not even 100% convinced that the Indians of the massacre (Adams party) were Apaches at all. The Navajos were at war with the US until the treaty of 1868, and were certainly capable of such attacks; they also were known to range well outside the area we think of as Navajo today, and some of the Apacheria had only been recently 'conquered' by Apaches. Nana's story includes a mention of a particular sub-tribe of Navajos that are almost extinct today, and their homeland was well outside the modern Navajo reservation boundaries which I thought was rather interesting. Usually the Navajo links are overlooked or ignored by most LAD hunters. Trying to sort out the things which have gotten mixed in is quite a task today.

    Sorry for the diversion there, please do continue, some great posts so far!

    Oroblanco

    Last edited by Oroblanco; Jun 02, 2015 at 01:58 PM. Reason: whoops forgot something again
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  4. #19
    us
    Jan 2009
    Alaska
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    This is a fastening thread! But so far, no one has suggested that the Bear Creek location fits any of the "clues" reported on the Adams Route maps.. unless I am having another "senior moment". Has this point been discussed in another thread? I agree that documented historical evidence suggests that Bear Creek is the logical location for the LAD, but do the pumpkin patch, rock house, "little door", zig zag canyon, big square rock, etc. fit into this area as well as the location that Dick French reports in his latest book?

    There is one issue, however, that give me pause about Dick's "Return to the Lost Adams Diggings": I cannot find any "waterfall" upstream from the places that the Adams party worked. Having not been to the location, I can only rely on topo maps and GoogleEarth. Neither source shows terrain that suggests a geological structure that might have supported a waterfall in the 1860s..... unless the "waterfalls" were created by temporary debris created and collected during a local flood and was later washed away by another. If the latter circumstance was the case, perhaps this "discrepancy" can be explained.

    Has anyone been able to match the reported Adams map clues to a possible route into and in the vicinity of Bear Valley?
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  5. #20
    mt
    Sep 2014
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    The facts behind the factoids
    Adams Escape Route:
    The route that Adams, and possibly a companion, followed after the Apache attack is one of the easiest parts of the LAD puzzle to figure. From the speculated location of the Adams placers on Bear Creek, it makes perfect sense that the survivors followed the same canyon downstream approximately twenty miles to the Gila River. They likely knew that once they reached the river, Fort West would be nearby, since the prospecting party crossed the wagon road leading to the fort near Mangas Springs (the “pumpkin patch”) on their trip into the diggings some weeks earlier. Also, some of the miners had been sent to the fort from the diggings for supplies - these men knew the way but were killed by the Apache on their return trip to the diggings. The map below summarizes the landmarks and escape route.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Adams escape route


    Malpais
    Aka "bad country". This is usually assumed to mean a basalt lava flow, such as the Mount Taylor flow that lies generally east of the Zuni Mountains and west of Highway 114 in the Grants NM area - now the El Malpais National Monument. This is one of the anchor clues in the LAD versions that place the diggings somewhere westerly of Magdalena NM and easterly of Springerville AZ, and strongly tied to Fort Wingate, the “fort in the malpais”.


    Many will object, but I'm ignoring the malpais reference. I generally reject the later versions of the LAD legend in lieu of the earlier tellings, and I also reject the malpais reference and its implications. I have spent a fair amount of time in this part of New Mexico trying to reconcile the Byerts et al versions of the legend to the terrain, and it just doesn't work for me. First, there is no gold in the area. That doesn't bode well. Second, it's too damned far from the Pima Villages. Third, it's too far from the Apache's primary venues. I suspect the reference was added solely to bolster a northern location for the diggings - for whatever reason. Obviously, I favor a southern location.


    Dos Piloncillos
    The two peaks appear in nearly all versions of the LAD legend, older and more recent ones. The Adams party’s guide pointed to the peaks from a high position as they began their final approach to the diggings. Many LAD versions place the peaks beyond the placer deposit, and some allude that the peaks were the source of, or were close to, a much richer gold source. The peaks were referred to as “dos piloncillos” - a reference to the cone-shaped lumps of hardened brown sugar common in the day (and today too, in certain places).


    It’s likely that Twin Sisters Peaks, on the Continental Divide northeast of Pinos Altos, were the dos piloncillos. They are twin cone-shaped peaks and well-known landmarks in the region, visible for miles from several directions. The Adams party would have been shown the peaks from the head of Blacksmith Canyon, which they climbed from Mangas Springs to LS Mesa, as shown in a previous post. From this location, the peaks are visible on the horizon to the east, about thirteen miles away. From the suspected location of the diggings in Bear Creek, the peaks would have been accessible by traveling upstream a few miles, then climbing one of several possible routes to the top - about a 2,000 foot elevation gain. Below is a line-of-sight profile from LS Mesa to Twin Sisters.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Analysis using Maptech


    To sweeten the deal, there are several rich mine/lost treasure traditions in close proximity to Twin Sisters. They are not associated directly to the events of the Adams party except by vague reference in the stories and won’t be expounded on here. Interestingly, the horizontal rock structure connecting the peaks was a view point for Adams at the beginning of later efforts by him and others trying to return to the placer diggings.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Approaching Twin Sisters from the west
    Last edited by sdcfia; Jun 02, 2015 at 09:28 PM. Reason: fixed map

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    Adams Escape Route:
    The route that Adams, and possibly a companion, followed after the Apache attack is one of the easiest parts of the LAD puzzle to figure. From the speculated location of the Adams placers on Bear Creek, it makes perfect sense that the survivors followed the same canyon downstream approximately twenty miles to the Gila River. They likely knew that once they reached the river, Fort West would be nearby, since the prospecting party crossed the wagon road leading to the fort near Mangas Springs (the “pumpkin patch”) on their trip into the diggings some weeks earlier. Also, some of the miners had been sent to the fort from the diggings for supplies - these men knew the way but were killed by the Apache on their return trip to the diggings. The map below summarizes the landmarks and escape route.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	escape route.jpg 
Views:	270 
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ID:	1170199
    Adams escape route


    Malpais
    Aka "bad country". This is usually assumed to mean a basalt lava flow, such as the Mount Taylor flow that lies generally east of the Zuni Mountains and west of Highway 114 in the Grants NM area - now the El Malpais National Monument. This is one of the anchor clues in the LAD versions that place the diggings somewhere westerly of Magdalena NM and easterly of Springerville AZ, and strongly tied to Fort Wingate, the “fort in the malpais”.


    Many will object, but I'm ignoring the malpais reference. I generally reject the later versions of the LAD legend in lieu of the earlier tellings, and I also reject the malpais reference and its implications. I have spent a fair amount of time in this part of New Mexico trying to reconcile the Byerts et al versions of the legend to the terrain, and it just doesn't work for me. First, there is no gold in the area. That doesn't bode well. Second, it's too damned far from the Pima Villages. Third, it's too far from the Apache's primary venues. I suspect the reference was added solely to bolster a northern location for the diggings - for whatever reason. Obviously, I favor a southern location.


    Dos Piloncillos
    The two peaks appear in nearly all versions of the LAD legend, older and more recent ones. The Adams party’s guide pointed to the peaks from a high position as they began their final approach to the diggings. Many LAD versions place the peaks beyond the placer deposit, and some allude that the peaks were the source of, or were close to, a much richer gold source. The peaks were referred to as “dos piloncillos” - a reference to the cone-shaped lumps of hardened brown sugar common in the day (and today too, in certain places).


    It’s likely that Twin Sisters Peaks, on the Continental Divide northeast of Pinos Altos, were the dos piloncillos. They are twin cone-shaped peaks and well-known landmarks in the region, visible for miles from several directions. The Adams party would have been shown the peaks from the head of Blacksmith Canyon, which they climbed from Mangas Springs to LS Mesa, as shown in a previous post. From this location, the peaks are visible on the horizon to the east, about thirteen miles away. From the suspected location of the diggings in Bear Creek, the peaks would have been accessible by traveling upstream a few miles, then climbing one of several possible routes to the top - about a 2,000 foot elevation gain. Below is a line-of-sight profile from LS Mesa to Twin Sisters.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Blacksmith to TS.jpg 
Views:	141 
Size:	40.2 KB 
ID:	1170192
    Analysis using Maptech


    To sweeten the deal, there are several rich mine/lost treasure traditions in close proximity to Twin Sisters. They are not associated directly to the events of the Adams party except by vague reference in the stories and won’t be expounded on here. Interestingly, the horizontal rock structure connecting the peaks was a view point for Adams at the beginning of later efforts by him and others trying to return to the placer diggings.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	009.JPG 
Views:	168 
Size:	275.4 KB 
ID:	1170193
    Approaching Twin Sisters from the west
    Another great post amigo!
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  7. #22
    mt
    Sep 2014
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    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabill View Post
    This is a fastening thread! But so far, no one has suggested that the Bear Creek location fits any of the "clues" reported on the Adams Route maps.. unless I am having another "senior moment". Has this point been discussed in another thread? I agree that documented historical evidence suggests that Bear Creek is the logical location for the LAD, but do the pumpkin patch, rock house, "little door", zig zag canyon, big square rock, etc. fit into this area as well as the location that Dick French reports in his latest book?

    There is one issue, however, that give me pause about Dick's "Return to the Lost Adams Diggings": I cannot find any "waterfall" upstream from the places that the Adams party worked. Having not been to the location, I can only rely on topo maps and GoogleEarth. Neither source shows terrain that suggests a geological structure that might have supported a waterfall in the 1860s..... unless the "waterfalls" were created by temporary debris created and collected during a local flood and was later washed away by another. If the latter circumstance was the case, perhaps this "discrepancy" can be explained.

    Has anyone been able to match the reported Adams map clues to a possible route into and in the vicinity of Bear Valley?
    Bill, I believe I am the first to attempt to flesh out the idea that the Bear Creek placers are the Lost Adams Diggings, although I suspect that this may have been realized long ago by many Southwesterners during Adams' time - Snively, obviously IMO. When Adams - a convincing liar by many accounts - told his many conflicting stories of the adventure, eager searchers began scurrying all over Arizona and New Mexico trying to place the clues he gave to so many. It didn't take long for the legend to take on a life of its own, as as time went on, the facts (whatever they were) became terribly corrupted and conflicting. Without facts, we have a legend, often embraced by hard core zealots. Lost mine legends generally aren't solved.

    As Oro suggested in this thread, it's probably a good idea to focus on the earliest material you can locate. The "northern location" material was late to the game, and as I mentioned in a previous post, I feel that it's disinformative. As far as maps are concerned, I would need solid provenance for any "treasure map" before taking it seriously. I don't mean to cast aspersions on the work Hale and French (a great researcher and writer) have done. They have put together an interesting argument. I just don't happen to agree with their conclusions.
    Last edited by sdcfia; Jun 03, 2015 at 08:16 AM.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    Bill, I believe I am the first to attempt to flesh out the idea that the Bear Creek placers are the Lost Adams Diggings, although I suspect that this may have been realized long ago by many Southwesterners during Adams' time - Snively, obviously IMO. When Adams - a convincing liar by many accounts - told his many conflicting stories of the adventure, eager searchers began scurrying all over Arizona and New Mexico trying to place the clues he gave to so many. It didn't take long for the legend to take on a life of its own, as as time went on, the facts (whatever they were) became terribly corrupted and conflicting. Without facts, we have a legend, often embraced by hard core zealots. Lost mine legends generally aren't solved.

    As Oro suggested in this thread, it's probably a good idea to focus on the earliest material you can locate. The "northern location" material was late to the game, and as I mentioned in a previous post, I feel that it's disinformative. As far as maps are concerned, I would need solid provenance for any "treasure map" before taking it seriously. I don't mean to cast aspersions on the work Hale and French (a great researcher and writer) have done. They have put together an interesting argument. I just don't happen to agree with their conclusions.

    Can't disagree with your post. On the waterfall - it is not mentioned at all in the earliest versions of the story, not to say it is untrue, perhaps Adams kept that detail closer to the chest until he had failed to find the location a time or two, but anyway it is really tough to see waterfalls on topos or even satellite images unless they are quite sizable. As an example, nearly 200 previously unknown waterfalls have been discovered in Yellowstone Park (Wyoming) in recent years, even though millions of visitors have been to the park, the whole park has been fully mapped for many years and many are hiking the backcountry every year.
    Yellowstone Waterfalls

    I know of a waterfall in the east, on a little creek named Tea creek, that was not known even to the people living less than a half mile away,<some may not know of it still for that matter, we did not broadcast it> and it was a rather spectacular one with a drop of nearly 100 feet over a cliff into a huge and deep pool. We discovered a pretty, hidden waterfall in AZ a few years ago, which however goes dry in winters - it is possible that the waterfall of the Adams story could be similar in that it has water only at certain times of the year.

    It would help if we knew how far away the waterfall was, from the exact site where Adams party was working. Were they working right at the foot of it, or was it up the canyon some distance, or in a side canyon..? Also a detailed description of the waterfall would be helpful.

    Please do continue:
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  9. #24
    mt
    Sep 2014
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    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Oroblanco View Post
    Can't disagree with your post. On the waterfall - it is not mentioned at all in the earliest versions of the story, not to say it is untrue, perhaps Adams kept that detail closer to the chest until he had failed to find the location a time or two, but anyway it is really tough to see waterfalls on topos or even satellite images unless they are quite sizable. As an example, nearly 200 previously unknown waterfalls have been discovered in Yellowstone Park (Wyoming) in recent years, even though millions of visitors have been to the park, the whole park has been fully mapped for many years and many are hiking the backcountry every year.
    Yellowstone Waterfalls

    I know of a waterfall in the east, on a little creek named Tea creek, that was not known even to the people living less than a half mile away,<some may not know of it still for that matter, we did not broadcast it> and it was a rather spectacular one with a drop of nearly 100 feet over a cliff into a huge and deep pool. We discovered a pretty, hidden waterfall in AZ a few years ago, which however goes dry in winters - it is possible that the waterfall of the Adams story could be similar in that it has water only at certain times of the year.

    It would help if we knew how far away the waterfall was, from the exact site where Adams party was working. Were they working right at the foot of it, or was it up the canyon some distance, or in a side canyon..? Also a detailed description of the waterfall would be helpful.

    Please do continue:
    I can guarantee you that, depending upon which route you choose, you will encounter waterfall(s) if you hike from Bear Creek up to Twin Sisters Peaks. Or up any of the drainages of Pinos Altos Mountain, where many rich lode mines were developed. Interestingly, back in the late 1970s, when there were still prospectors and small time miners active around Pinos Altos, the late Tommy Donahue used to repeat stories about a lost gold vein near a waterfall. Of course, these things could occur in any number of places. Also, it depends on what is meant by a "waterfall". A perennial waterfall, or one formed only with a storm runoff? Is it a five foot high drop? Ten? Fifty?

    OT: Here's a good reference of the AZ-NM territory in the 1860s - it's a section of "Map of the Military Department New Mexico" (Carlton, Anderson, 1864). One can trace a route from the Arizona Pima Villages easterly into New Mexico - there are more than one option. In New Mexico, Mangas Springs is shown (called Agua de Santa Lucia then), Fort West (misspelled) on the Gila River, the wagon road serving the fort, Bear Creek and Pinos Altos. Also shown are the Santa Rita Copper Mines and Ojo de San Vicente, where Silver City would be established in 1870.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by sdcfia; Jun 03, 2015 at 08:40 PM. Reason: better map pic

  10. #25

    Mar 2012
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    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I am going to write here the short version which I hope won"t be to long. After studying my L.A.D. documents for the up-teenth time, I fell a sleep. During my slumber I dreamed of a long sliver cross , and when I woke up their was a certain word in my old brain, which I looked up on the internet. After that it sort of all came together for me. Another words if I were searching for the L.A.D.I would know exactly what to look for,which I won"t reveal. In my thoughts the L.A.D. is a very ancient site and extremely scared to the Indians.There are probably Indian scouts there on a regular basis today to keep it that way. After all these exhausting visions to myself, I have decided to destroy all information I have on the L.A.D. The short version. How about that Gotch-Ear and Chief Nana.
    Last edited by motel6.5; Jun 04, 2015 at 12:12 AM.

  11. #26
    mt
    Sep 2014
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    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by motel6.5 View Post
    I am going to write here the short version which I hope won"t be to long. After studying my L.A.D. documents for the up-teenth time, I fell a sleep. During my slumber I dreamed of a long sliver cross , and when I woke up their was a certain word in my old brain, which I looked up on the internet. After that it sort of all came together for me. Another words if I were searching for the L.A.D.I would know exactly what to look for,which I won"t reveal. In my thoughts the L.A.D. is a very ancient site and extremely scared to the Indians.There are probably Indian scouts there on a regular basis today to keep it that way. After all these exhausting visions to myself, I have decided to destroy all information I have on the L.A.D. The short version. How about that Gotch-Ear and Chief Nana.
    Six-five, if you identified what your vision revealed, perhaps we could comment. Concerning the Adams placer site, yes, it was rich. Snively made off with thirty pounds (sixty, according to some) in twelve days' panning. The Bear Creek placers were then worked to their economic end during the next thirty years. Recreational placer miners still play around there today.

    But the reason the Adams party was wiped out is alleged by many to be because they were ignoring the Apaches' warning about prospecting above the placer deposit. I don't believe this upper site was a "sacred" area to the Apaches. I believe it was a "dangerous" location for the tribe - one with a history they were aware of for many years. I say dangerous because they knew what would result if the Anglos discovered it - their Pinos Altos homeland would be overrun and they would be permanently pushed out. Of course, this is exactly what happened as many lode deposits were soon discovered in the area and Pinos Altos became a gold mining zone for decades - gold from lode mines as the placer deposits eventually diminished, then played out.

    Ironically, it's my opinion that the specific site that the Apaches warned the Adams group to avoid was not discovered and still exists somewhere in the general vicinity of Twin Sisters Peak.

  12. #27
    us
    El Dorado: Gold is where you find it.

    Apr 2015
    Valley Center, CA/Yuma, AZ
    472
    1869 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Excellent analysis, sdcfia. My complements, and I suspect you are correct, in most or all of your conclusions.

    JB

  13. #28
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,694
    4201 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Shortfinger View Post
    Excellent analysis, sdcfia. My complements, and I suspect you are correct, in most or all of your conclusions.

    JB
    Thanks, JB. This puzzle is mind-boggling when you consider all the conflicting stories that Adams turned loose on the world. IMO, he either did this because of a weak mind or character - or both - or because he was hiding something. Either way, after years of frustration, I decided that if there was any truth to the legend, then the only way I would be able make any sense out of it would be not to pick my favorite version and nurture it, but to reject them all and start over on my own.

    I tend to rely on facts and hard logic when trying to understand historic events. With the LAD, I started with a selection of key landmarks, players, and events that seemed to be reasonably common to most versions of the legend. Then I looked at the political, cultural and economic state of affairs in Arizona and New Mexico during the 1860s. I read many unrelated first hand historic accounts by others who were in the area during the same period. I considered the geology of the region, figuring that the best odds of finding a rich gold deposit would be where there was a history of rich gold discoveries. Since I've always been fascinated with Jacob Snively - and was aware of allegations that he may well have been the LAD Dutchman - I tried to work him into the mix. I ignored all the LAD hoopla from the past 150 years and imagined myself in the area during the 1860s. The result is the speculation I've laid out in this thread. I know most will likely reject my theory out of hand in lieu of their own ideas, but it is what it is - a simple solution, really. If new factual evidence surfaces that causes me to adjust my ideas, then I will move on where the facts lead - all I care about is the truth of the matter, whatever it is.

  14. #29
    no
    Mar 2010
    Republic of Texas
    486
    857 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    I am impressed by the data you have shared - a simple 'like' is insufficient! You have made an excellent case for where it ought to be - also, simple is often the best. The more we entrench ourselves in theories, the more complicated it all becomes, occasionally we end up with conspiracies and such like in order to make our theory fit.
    For one - you have screwed up all my previous ideas about its whereabouts, however, I am never too proud to admit being wrong ;-)
    And no *chuckles* I'm not gonna run out to see if it can be found (got my own fish to fry)! Maybe some other time ... but again, thank you for what you have shared - much appreciated!
    Oroblanco and sdcfia like this.

  15. #30
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,694
    4201 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    I am impressed by the data you have shared - a simple 'like' is insufficient! You have made an excellent case for where it ought to be - also, simple is often the best. The more we entrench ourselves in theories, the more complicated it all becomes, occasionally we end up with conspiracies and such like in order to make our theory fit.
    For one - you have screwed up all my previous ideas about its whereabouts, however, I am never too proud to admit being wrong ;-)
    And no *chuckles* I'm not gonna run out to see if it can be found (got my own fish to fry)! Maybe some other time ... but again, thank you for what you have shared - much appreciated!
    Thanks, Loke - I'm glad that you've enjoyed the thread. Good luck with your own fish fry!
    Loke likes this.

 

 
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