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Thread: Detailed route to Adams gold

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  1. #31
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,765
    4425 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by motel6.5 View Post
    Hi Sdcfia, I will post from my notes what I can. I have not read all these threads and the others on the L.A.D.
    I really cannot say what I post is 100% accurate. I do agree with you the L.A.D.has not been been located yet.
    I am posting in no paticular order, my spelling is not the best right now ,as I am tired.

    1) Emil Schaeffer the German,sold 65pounds3ounces,to a storekeeper named Hinton in Yuma.
    2) The L.A.D. group picked up their re- supplys at Fort Wingate, about a 8 day ride from the L.A.D.
    3) When the group returned they were masacured at the top of the Zig/Zag.
    4) The pumkin patch was a old Indian camp with a drainage ditch running down 1 side
    5) U.S. Caverly found Adams and Davidson in the desert, took them to Ft.Apache.
    6) The Indians told Adams not to let his men go above the Falls, as their people were camped there.
    7) The Sugar Cones are past the L.A.D., to be used as a marker/map point.
    8) Byerts, might have located the L.A.D
    9) The Malpis should not be disregareded as a possible.
    10) Adams was at a Indian camp where he met the other L.A.D. men and Gotch-Ear. He agreed to join the group and added his 12 horses ? he was going to trade to the Indians. From the camp it was about a 10 day ride.
    End.
    I agree - IMO, the so-called ultra-rich gold deposit above the Bear Creek placers remains undiscovered.

    I'll take a stab at the ten points you listed:
    1) I've seen the Dutchman referred to as "Emil Shaeffer" before in some of the LAD versions. Also, he is apparently identified as the Shaeffer of "Lost Shaeffer Diggings" fame. Baxter and others were convinced that the Lost Shaeffer Diggings, Lost Snively Diggings and Lost Adams Diggings were all one and the same. It's my feeling that Snively, for whatever reason, used the alias Emil Shaeffer during the LAD expedition. I still have many questions concerning the identities of the twenty or so (more or less) members of the expedition. Also, why would Snively give a false name when he joined them?

    2) I believe the expedition took place in the southern part of New Mexico in 1863, and Fort West was the supply point, not more than a long day's ride for men on horseback.

    3) Makes sense.

    4) I agree - it was at Mangas Springs NM.

    5) The survivors could not have been taken to Fort Apache because this fort didn't come into service until 1870, several years after the Adams expedition. IMO, the survivors were taken to Fort West.

    6) I agree that the Apaches warned the Adams party not to go above the placer diggings.

    7) I agree.

    8) I haven't seen anything to make me believe this.

    9) There are various forms of malpais. Many of the mesas and canyons in the southwest are old basaltic flows that have weathered and been grown over with vegetation. Many other southwestern canyons are rimmed by vertical columns of volcanic tuff. These can be referred to as "malpais", or "bad country". The malpais that you are referring to is the McCartys Flow, one of the youngest on the continent - a thin layer of fresh looking black lava. It came from Mount Taylor and sits on top of barren flat ground with no mineral history. One man's malpais is another's bad country. I reject the McCartys Flow as a LAD site because there is minimal chance of gold there.

    10) I agree.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    McCartys Flow (free-use photo)
    Oroblanco likes this.

  2. #32
    Curious

    Jul 2013
    MN
    26
    21 times
    Fascinating thread! Here I was wondering why no one was responding to my questions and analysis re: Dick French's new book.. and now I know.

    Sorta reminds me of the ongoing debate re: LDM, as to whether it's been found.

    I'm not sure it matters, except for those who still search for gold in the Supes, as anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that ~ $400,000,000 in gold was worked out of a mine in the Iron Mtn/ Pinto Creek area from 1997-1999, and possibly moved out of the area ~ 5 years later.

    When you find gold in that quantity, who cares if it was the LDM?

    If a similar crazy amount of gold can be found in the Bear Creek/ Pintos Alto area or the Old Canyon area of Dick's book, who cares if it's the LAD or not?

    ... or, are we "doomed to just keep searching?", sailing the 7 seas like the legendary ship?

    George
    Oroblanco and Hobo like this.

  3. #33
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,765
    4425 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_George View Post
    Fascinating thread! Here I was wondering why no one was responding to my questions and analysis re: Dick French's new book.. and now I know.

    Sorta reminds me of the ongoing debate re: LDM, as to whether it's been found.

    I'm not sure it matters, except for those who still search for gold in the Supes, as anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that ~ $400,000,000 in gold was worked out of a mine in the Iron Mtn/ Pinto Creek area from 1997-1999, and possibly moved out of the area ~ 5 years later.

    When you find gold in that quantity, who cares if it was the LDM?

    If a similar crazy amount of gold can be found in the Bear Creek/ Pintos Alto area or the Old Canyon area of Dick's book, who cares if it's the LAD or not?

    ... or, are we "doomed to just keep searching?", sailing the 7 seas like the legendary ship?

    George
    French is a darned good writer and Hale did a lot of work on the LAD - they should be commended for their efforts. However, I don't believe the LAD events took place in that part of New Mexico for reasons I've laid out in this thread. I realize that many would disagree with my conclusions and would support French/Hale. We all have to decide for ourselves.

    $400,000,000? Is this a misprint? That is more than 300,000 ounces of gold - how do you keep something this big under the radar? Sounds like either a tall tale or something very greatly exaggerated.

    We care about the LAD because it's an unsolved mystery - a big one. We're curious, Curious George.
    lastleg and Oroblanco like this.

  4. #34
    us
    Apr 2009
    11
    12 times
    Sdcfia,

    I have only a very casual interest in the Lost Adams Diggings legend, so my opinion on your theory regarding its location isn't worth much. But your logic certainly sounds plausible to me, and I'll be very interested in reading and pondering the discussion that's sure to follow.

    My main reason for posting this is to say that it's a real pleasure to read such a well-thought-out, well-written theory on a treasure legend. And the maps and illustrations are perfect too. I wish more threads at this site were like yours. Good job!
    Oroblanco likes this.

  5. #35
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,765
    4425 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirsty44 View Post
    Sdcfia,

    I have only a very casual interest in the Lost Adams Diggings legend, so my opinion on your theory regarding its location isn't worth much. But your logic certainly sounds plausible to me, and I'll be very interested in reading and pondering the discussion that's sure to follow.

    My main reason for posting this is to say that it's a real pleasure to read such a well-thought-out, well-written theory on a treasure legend. And the maps and illustrations are perfect too. I wish more threads at this site were like yours. Good job!
    Thanks for the kind words, Thirsty!
    Oroblanco likes this.

  6. #36
    Curious

    Jul 2013
    MN
    26
    21 times
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    French is a darned good writer and Hale did a lot of work on the LAD - they should be commended for their efforts. However, I don't believe the LAD events took place in that part of New Mexico for reasons I've laid out in this thread. I realize that many would disagree with my conclusions and would support French/Hale. We all have to decide for ourselves.

    $400,000,000? Is this a misprint? That is more than 300,000 ounces of gold - how do you keep something this big under the radar? Sounds like either a tall tale or something very greatly exaggerated.

    We care about the LAD because it's an unsolved mystery - a big one. We're curious, Curious George.
    No, $400,000,000 is NOT a misprint, and I totally understand and agree that a major part of the allure of the LAD IS the mystery (oh, yes... and the gold)-- which was actually the point of my post-- once the mystery is solved, the "juice' around/ about a mystery dissolves, like the mystique around the Titanic.

    I was a Titanic fan "before it was cool"--- and found that after it was found, the reality wasn't the same as the mystique.

    As to the $400,000,000 taken out of the Supes, that will take another email... maybe this weekend.

    CG

  7. #37

    Mar 2012
    Nevada,Calif.,Utah,Arizona
    Whites Egle 11,Eurotech,various other tools.
    278
    259 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Sdcfia, There were 2 Ft Wingates, as I am sure you know. {1st}Was built 1849 at Seboyeta, then moved to San Rafael. {2nd}, Priorer to 1868 Fort Wingate was Fort Lyon{1861} and Fort Fauntleroy{1860}.
    Adams plus his group of 21 others went on their treasure hunt in the year 1864. Its a good bet they stopped at Ft Lyon for provisions and latter again for there return trip to the L.A.D.
    Fort Apache a military post was established in 1863./ where Adams and Davidson were taken.
    I could find no imformation on your Fort West.

  8. #38
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,765
    4425 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_George View Post
    No, $400,000,000 is NOT a misprint, and I totally understand and agree that a major part of the allure of the LAD IS the mystery (oh, yes... and the gold)-- which was actually the point of my post-- once the mystery is solved, the "juice' around/ about a mystery dissolves --
    That's a very good point! Life would be pretty damned dull if we all knew all the answers to everything. Maybe that's the reason we're here - to try to understand all the things we don't.
    Oroblanco likes this.

  9. #39
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,765
    4425 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by motel6.5 View Post
    Sdcfia, There were 2 Ft Wingates, as I am sure you know. {1st}Was built 1849 at Seboyeta, then moved to San Rafael. {2nd}, Priorer to 1868 Fort Wingate was Fort Lyon{1861} and Fort Fauntleroy{1860}.
    Adams plus his group of 21 others went on their treasure hunt in the year 1864. Its a good bet they stopped at Ft Lyon for provisions and latter again for there return trip to the L.A.D.
    Fort Apache a military post was established in 1863./ where Adams and Davidson were taken.
    I could find no imformation on your Fort West.
    That's the problem with Adams - he told so many different stories to so many different people, he had a hard time keeping the lies sorted out. Same goes for Shaw.

    Versions of the story attributed to Adams gave dates for the gold mining expedition that ranged from 1858 to 1869. Many feel it was 1864, but at this point, I believe it was 1863.

    Fort Wingate is off the radar for me because I don't accept the northern section of New Mexico as the diggings site, for the many reasons I've covered in this thread.

    Fort Apache
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    Frontier Military Posts of Arizona, Ray Brandes, page 10


    Fort West
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    Forts of New Mexico, Dr. Dale F. Giese, page 19
    Oroblanco and lastleg like this.

  10. #40
    us
    Dec 2014
    New Mexico
    OKM
    230
    145 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Adam's Gold is in the Gila national Forest

  11. #41

    Mar 2012
    Nevada,Calif.,Utah,Arizona
    Whites Egle 11,Eurotech,various other tools.
    278
    259 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Sdifca, Re: Ft West, As you did I"m sure I read the thread on Ft West. Ft West history, 1-24-1863 to 1-8-1864 few days shy of 1 year,then closed. I say no store,no tradeing post at FT. West. 22 members of the Adams group , who left on their treasure hunt late in the year 1864 could not have picked up provisions and re-supplied their latter on.
    Still the smart option would be as reported in many versions as Ft Wingate, and is probably correct ,is Fort Lyon,which became Fort Wingate at a latter date. My correct travel and timeline for the Adams group.

  12. #42

    Mar 2012
    Nevada,Calif.,Utah,Arizona
    Whites Egle 11,Eurotech,various other tools.
    278
    259 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Next time I go to pay my land tax bill in Grants N.M., where my property sits between two Indian reservations I will make some inquires with some Indians I am acquainted with. If anyone knows or can point me to another Indian that does about the Adams saga,they do,might, will or won"t.

  13. #43
    us
    Dec 2014
    New Mexico
    OKM
    230
    145 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    My mentor has solved the Adams

  14. #44
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,765
    4425 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by motel6.5 View Post
    Sdifca, Re: Ft West, As you did I"m sure I read the thread on Ft West. Ft West history, 1-24-1863 to 1-8-1864 few days shy of 1 year,then closed. I say no store,no tradeing post at FT. West. 22 members of the Adams group , who left on their treasure hunt late in the year 1864 could not have picked up provisions and re-supplied their latter on.
    Still the smart option would be as reported in many versions as Ft Wingate, and is probably correct ,is Fort Lyon,which became Fort Wingate at a latter date. My correct travel and timeline for the Adams group.
    If you wish to accept 1864 as the year of the Adams gold expedition, that's your choice. It's the year claimed in the W.H. Byerts pamphlet (1919), and also the Charles Allen 1935 account. The John Brewer narrative (El Paso Herald, 1928 by A.M. Tenny) says 1862. The R.C. Patterson account (Socorro Chieftain, 1897) says it happened the winter of 1865-1866. The W.W. Williams version (Socorro Chieftain, 1898) says 1858. Washie Jones said it was 1865 (Cow Dust and Saddle Leather, 1968). There are several other tellings of the tale, but the question is: which account do you choose, and why? Not only are the dates at odds with each other in the many versions, but so are the landmarks, travel times, terrain descriptions, number in the party and other important details.

    I used to accept the 1864 date and the Fort Wingate/lava flow story too - for years - but many details just did not work for me. Based on several logical, factual and circumstantial reasons posted earlier, I think it's highly likely the Adams events took place in 1863 in the Pinos Altos Range, near the location of Fort West in southwestern New Mexico. I know you support the Hale/French claims, but I don't.

  15. #45
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,765
    4425 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by KXMember View Post
    My mentor has solved the Adams
    Interesting. Can you tell us more?

 

 
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