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Thread: Detailed route to Adams gold

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  1. #91
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,689
    4189 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    I hope they put it out fast, too. How far away are you?
    Less than three miles. Hopefully, it'll only take out the buck brush and ground clutter, and not the big trees.
    mdog and Oroblanco like this.
    "Trust me, Wilbur. People are very gullible. They'll believe anything they see in print."
    E.B. White

  2. #92

    Oct 2012
    NM/AZ
    V3(i), ATX, uMax, Gold Bug, TM808, Custom
    166
    331 times

    Timing is everything

    DEEP research and well-organized material sdcfia!

    You might put it into a pamphlet or some other comprehensive form someday.

    French/Hale/Schade location is compelling, wish I could have been there when Ron was prospecting to lend another eye, but no easy access now. Gold is critical to "prove" a location for the tale. BTW, someone mentioned there's no waterfall in the FHS documentation, but I recall Ron talking about one with logs hung way up the canyon rim that would run like crazy.

    In one of my favorite Black Range areas, the fire and flood first wiped out the 2-3 lower waterfalls, and in the past few years has now exposed about 5 *more* higher up. Makes it even more challenging now, but intensely beautiful, especially where the ore is scattered around in the boulder fields among the clear stream. So waterfalls can come and go.

    Is the Black Range Tales considered a valid source? It's sort of a biography of McKenna, but told late in his life as dictated to his caretakers, if I recall. Those old Spit and Whittle Club guys sure focused on the northern region a lot, and they hung out in PA area in person (all over 'round there, really). Interesting that they say Adams would get lost once he got to "Cactus Flats". I found a nearby place labeled that way an old map, not sure if that's also the contemporary name or not.

    Wish I would have run across this post earlier. Head is spinning now. Coincidentally, I beeped up some good high grade on your hill a while back on the way through. Been there twice, and great luck every time, despite the hot rocks. Hot enough to fool my PI machine, even. Can sweat copper and silver right out of that rock (to get show) without even bothering with flux. Not sure about the gold content. Different sort of ore. Reminds me very much of the better Janos trail / Camino del Cobre material, so I'm pretty sold on the Spanish connection to PA and not just Santa Rita ("El Cobre".)

    The ore's not where you'd expect to find it - sheesh, my mission was to find the mine it came from this time, but it's hard not to dig while the digging is still good. Wet soil for a change is nice - that must have been a big storm! Now I guess this post solves where the mines are likely to have been... or not all of them are found yet? (checks tire pressure, cleans windshield, sets out boots)

    Saw a couple of faint non-native camp areas on the flats up there. Felt old. Only one scraper and a few flakes the whole day, for that type of sign. Was heading toward the twins when Mr. Blacktail decided to show me just how healthy he was. He got clear up "on his hind legs". I swear it was 10 minutes before he relaxed that last stage and slithered off. Never stared one down like that before. Wanted to see how long I'd have to wait if I did not spot him first and have distance. He was real ornery for a blacktail - more like I'd expect from a western.

    Regarding Codebreaker, ever talk to them or happen to know anything about "Lilo" or "lilo" markings? They had a glyph of that sort on their site (is it still up?) that is different from the ones I've found. And I've found them well away from PA and Cooke's.

    Again, stupendously meaty work! Thanks for sharing.

    (I cut the quote to save space, so if that's bad form then the hard-working and patient moderators can maybe put the whole thing back if that's better)

    [QUOTE=sdcfia;4581330]Unreconciled Pinos Altos gold legends

    4. Spanish mines on Twin Sisters Peaks


    There are a number of legends indicating Spanish gold mines in the Pinos Altos/Santa Rita del Cobre mineralized zone...
    Oroblanco likes this.

  3. #93
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,689
    4189 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by nmth View Post
    DEEP research and well-organized material sdcfia!

    You might put it into a pamphlet or some other comprehensive form someday.

    French/Hale/Schade location is compelling, wish I could have been there when Ron was prospecting to lend another eye, but no easy access now. Gold is critical to "prove" a location for the tale. BTW, someone mentioned there's no waterfall in the FHS documentation, but I recall Ron talking about one with logs hung way up the canyon rim that would run like crazy.

    In one of my favorite Black Range areas, the fire and flood first wiped out the 2-3 lower waterfalls, and in the past few years has now exposed about 5 *more* higher up. Makes it even more challenging now, but intensely beautiful, especially where the ore is scattered around in the boulder fields among the clear stream. So waterfalls can come and go.

    Is the Black Range Tales considered a valid source? It's sort of a biography of McKenna, but told late in his life as dictated to his caretakers, if I recall. Those old Spit and Whittle Club guys sure focused on the northern region a lot, and they hung out in PA area in person (all over 'round there, really). Interesting that they say Adams would get lost once he got to "Cactus Flats". I found a nearby place labeled that way an old map, not sure if that's also the contemporary name or not.

    Wish I would have run across this post earlier. Head is spinning now. Coincidentally, I beeped up some good high grade on your hill a while back on the way through. Been there twice, and great luck every time, despite the hot rocks. Hot enough to fool my PI machine, even. Can sweat copper and silver right out of that rock (to get show) without even bothering with flux. Not sure about the gold content. Different sort of ore. Reminds me very much of the better Janos trail / Camino del Cobre material, so I'm pretty sold on the Spanish connection to PA and not just Santa Rita ("El Cobre".)

    The ore's not where you'd expect to find it - sheesh, my mission was to find the mine it came from this time, but it's hard not to dig while the digging is still good. Wet soil for a change is nice - that must have been a big storm! Now I guess this post solves where the mines are likely to have been... or not all of them are found yet? (checks tire pressure, cleans windshield, sets out boots)

    Saw a couple of faint non-native camp areas on the flats up there. Felt old. Only one scraper and a few flakes the whole day, for that type of sign. Was heading toward the twins when Mr. Blacktail decided to show me just how healthy he was. He got clear up "on his hind legs". I swear it was 10 minutes before he relaxed that last stage and slithered off. Never stared one down like that before. Wanted to see how long I'd have to wait if I did not spot him first and have distance. He was real ornery for a blacktail - more like I'd expect from a western.

    Regarding Codebreaker, ever talk to them or happen to know anything about "Lilo" or "lilo" markings? They had a glyph of that sort on their site (is it still up?) that is different from the ones I've found. And I've found them well away from PA and Cooke's.

    Again, stupendously meaty work! Thanks for sharing.

    (I cut the quote to save space, so if that's bad form then the hard-working and patient moderators can maybe put the whole thing back if that's better)

    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    Unreconciled Pinos Altos gold legends

    4. Spanish mines on Twin Sisters Peaks


    There are a number of legends indicating Spanish gold mines in the Pinos Altos/Santa Rita del Cobre mineralized zone...
    I'm glad you liked the thread.

    Waterfalls can mean different things to different people. Large, small, short, tall. It's not a very definitive clue, IMO. There are also many waterfalls formed when it rains that don't exist when it's dry. There are undoubtedly waterfalls that existed on historic perennial streams that no longer exist now that those streams have dried up. Waterfalls come and go in the Southwest.

    My Mexican surveyor friend, a well-informed guy, tells me 'lilo' is an archaic Spanish term meaning, "on line", or, "in a straight line."
    Last edited by sdcfia; Sep 07, 2016 at 01:00 PM.
    nmth, Oroblanco and mdog like this.
    "Trust me, Wilbur. People are very gullible. They'll believe anything they see in print."
    E.B. White

  4. #94
    Curious

    Jul 2013
    MN
    26
    21 times
    Excellent thread. Forgot all about it, until I went looking for info on the book "Hidden Treasures of the Black Range."

    I wonder-- has anyone read this new (11/15) expensive book ($59) by Marshall Bulle, which locates the LAD close to the same area you are looking at, sdcfia?

    Am very interested in how their experience compares with your ideas. Not having read the book, I do not know if they claimed to find gold, but they do state that the true gold is NOT a placer gold, but a mine.

    BTW, I forgot to share the supporting evidence for my assertion (about a year ago... oooppss) that ~ $400,000,000 in gold was moved out of the Supes. Mtns. in the early 2000's. Check out this thread and read between the lines: simply do a search on this site for "Lost Pit Mine" Some pretty compelling social & physical evidence that it happened. In the thread, what's NOT said is just about as important as what is said-- apparently to protect those personally involved.
    Oroblanco and sdcfia like this.

  5. #95
    Curious

    Jul 2013
    MN
    26
    21 times
    Ooops again (hey, I am an old fart!) searching here for "Lost Pit Mine" does n't bring it up. Instead go to:

    Is the Pit Mine really the Lost Dutchman mine?

    Looks like Oroblanco started the thread.
    Oroblanco likes this.

  6. #96
    us
    Nov 2010
    5
    5 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_George View Post
    Excellent thread. Forgot all about it, until I went looking for info on the book "Hidden Treasures of the Black Range."

    I wonder-- has anyone read this new (11/15) expensive book ($59) by Marshall Bulle, which locates the LAD close to the same area you are looking at, sdcfia?

    Am very interested in how their experience compares with your ideas. Not having read the book, I do not know if they claimed to find gold, but they do state that the true gold is NOT a placer gold, but a mine.
    I am about halfway through the book right now. I checked it out from our local library. The author is a neighbor of mine in this little town. Once I'm finished I'm hoping to meet Mr. Bulle and chat about his book. So far the author's story is a compelling read and, despite not having much knowledge about this particular lost treasure, I feel like there might be something to his solution to this old puzzle. I'll post an update once I finish reading the book.

  7. #97
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,689
    4189 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by johnzalez View Post
    I am about halfway through the book right now. I checked it out from our local library. The author is a neighbor of mine in this little town. Once I'm finished I'm hoping to meet Mr. Bulle and chat about his book. So far the author's story is a compelling read and, despite not having much knowledge about this particular lost treasure, I feel like there might be something to his solution to this old puzzle. I'll post an update once I finish reading the book.
    I've been curious about this book too, jz, and am looking forward to your comments. Of course, we'd like to know where the discovery spot is.

    The first five years or so that I lived in NM was on the Mimbres side of Grant County, and I spent a lot of time hiking the Black Range. It's just plain awesome country with a fabulous history. The devastating Silver Fire a couple years ago denuded a large chunk of it, but in some ways made it easier to explore. This will change when the brush grows back, replacing the timber. The McKenna book, Black Range Tales, is the classic account and very highly recommended. In addition to BRT, there are other legends of gold in those mountains - the most recent that I'm aware of concerning the location of an old adobe smelter close to Emory's crossing route in the southern part of the range north of Cookes Peak. That is supposedly an ongoing project.

    Before that, we heard from Jack Purcell about some guys who allegedly made a discovery of some sort in the higher mountains - supposedly a cannon and a related gold mine search. Sounds a lot like the claims made in this new book. At the time, I wondered if maybe the cannon was possibly one abandoned by the cavalry during the Apache wars. There's a fantastic Apache skirmish site in lower Animas Canyon - with lots of artifacts still on the ground - that I've always wanted to visit. It sits within Ted Turner's Ladder Ranch that is off-limits to the public (but reachable from another direction). I suspected then that the cannon and mine search was in upper Animas Canyon. Maybe the new book will flesh that out.

    The Lost Adams clues can be made to fit many locations in the Southwest because, unfortunately, there are so many different versions of the story with so many different sets of clues to work with. The landmarks - twin peaks, zigzag canyons, waterfalls, old roads, et al, are not hard to identify in a number of mountain ranges, depending upon how one decides to interpret the clues. The acid test for considering a possible location is the confirmation of 1) gold being found at the site, or 2) a history of gold being recovered there, or 3) a reasonable possibility that gold existed there and was known about by a casually-found guide.
    Last edited by sdcfia; Nov 14, 2016 at 12:40 PM.
    Oroblanco and mdog like this.
    "Trust me, Wilbur. People are very gullible. They'll believe anything they see in print."
    E.B. White

  8. #98
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,689
    4189 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by Curious_George View Post
    Excellent thread. Forgot all about it, until I went looking for info on the book "Hidden Treasures of the Black Range."

    I wonder-- has anyone read this new (11/15) expensive book ($59) by Marshall Bulle, which locates the LAD close to the same area you are looking at, sdcfia?

    Am very interested in how their experience compares with your ideas. Not having read the book, I do not know if they claimed to find gold, but they do state that the true gold is NOT a placer gold, but a mine.

    BTW, I forgot to share the supporting evidence for my assertion (about a year ago... oooppss) that ~ $400,000,000 in gold was moved out of the Supes. Mtns. in the early 2000's. Check out this thread and read between the lines: simply do a search on this site for "Lost Pit Mine" Some pretty compelling social & physical evidence that it happened. In the thread, what's NOT said is just about as important as what is said-- apparently to protect those personally involved.
    George, these guys are looking (as far as I can tell without reading the pricey book) somewhere in the Black Range, I believe north of Emory Pass. I may be wrong about that - maybe someone can correct me. The area that most interests me, as far as the Lost Adams is concerned, is the Pinos Altos area, about 30 miles to the west.
    Oroblanco likes this.
    "Trust me, Wilbur. People are very gullible. They'll believe anything they see in print."
    E.B. White

  9. #99
    us
    Mar 2011
    1,248
    2159 times
    Quote Originally Posted by sdcfia View Post
    I'm glad you liked the thread.

    Waterfalls can mean different things to different people. Large, small, short, tall. It's not a very definitive clue, IMO. There are also many waterfalls formed when it rains that don't exist when it's dry. There are undoubtedly waterfalls that existed on historic perennial streams that no longer exist now that those streams have dried up. Waterfalls come and go in the Southwest.

    My Mexican surveyor friend, a well-informed guy, tells me 'lilo' is an archaic Spanish term meaning, "on line", or, "in a straight line."
    I don't know how I missed this post. Have you found any straight line clues related to the lilo carvings? Thanks, sdcfia.
    Oroblanco likes this.

  10. #100
    mt
    Sep 2014
    1,689
    4189 times
    The facts behind the factoids
    Quote Originally Posted by mdog View Post
    I don't know how I missed this post. Have you found any straight line clues related to the lilo carvings? Thanks, sdcfia.
    Yes. The picture below shows a "lilo" in the bottom-center. When you line up with the head of "happy man" (top right-center), you are looking at a zigzag ridge a few miles in the distance. This ridge has the same profile as the zigzag that happy man is holding in his right hand. At the far end of the ridge is a huge squarish boulder all by itself. This is the prominent dot at the end of happy man's zigzag. Presumably, the boulder is important in some way, unless the whole thing is a coincidence. However, I don't believe in coincidences.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Happy lilo.JPG 
Views:	104 
Size:	286.4 KB 
ID:	1381541

    The distant boulder showed no additional carvings or other manmade signs on it, although it appeared as if there might possibly be a void under it. The work needed to determine this was beyond our capabilities at the time, so we put the project in the "maybe" file, where it still resides.

    We followed another "lilo" that, used along with an obvious nearby sighting rock, pointed to a mega-petroglyph site - not far from the boulder discussed above. That site is packed with good stuff, including an obviously back-filled mine shaft surrounded by weird "aztec"-looking carvings. Unfortunately, that site is a BLM Cultural Study Area and is monitored with electronic sensors and now I think with cameras too.

    As I said earlier, a lot of the "lilo" carvings in the Cookes Range were of a different style and were recently made (last 40 years) by a deer hunter from Deming NM and have nothing to do with alignments with other clues.
    Oroblanco and mdog like this.
    "Trust me, Wilbur. People are very gullible. They'll believe anything they see in print."
    E.B. White

 

 
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