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  1. #16

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    7 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Springfield
    Quote Originally Posted by Highmountain
    ... With the help of a lot of geneologists I found the 'Mormon connection' was a lot stronger than seemed to be the case at the time of publication. ...
    Jack
    I suspect the truth of the events that spawned the 'Lost Adams Diggings' legend is different than what we've believed for the past 140 years - possibly radically different. I'm still riding the splintery fence between accepting that the LAD is a lost placer deposit or a entertaing the idea that the tale is a complete fabrication designed as a coded record to describe other activities in the area at the time. That's where the Mormon connection enters the picture, IMO, along with other unlikely players. There have been many who've claimed to have found the LAD, none of whom has provided anything close to convincing evidence. There have also been many apologists who have explained why the Canyon of Gold has not been relocated. Perhaps there is no Canyon of Gold, at least in the form we've been chasing.
    Thanks for the reply. I honestly don't know what to think about the 'Mormon connection' except that it exists, and that every rock a person turns over in the LAD stands a greater than even chance of having a Mormon under it.

    I tend to agree the LAD is something quite different than we searchers relying on all that was said of it at the time, have believed. Lot's of things in the stories that seemed straight-forward now seem cryptic [though more accurate than they have any business being] and probably insightful.

    I expect if the Adams is ever located it will be fairly obvious why it wasn't located previously [with the exception of those who found it and either couldn't find it again, or died in the process, or found it again, but didn't admit to it].

    If John Brewer returned there I don't imagine his memories gave him enough peace to cause him to want to stay long.

    But it does have a way of haunting the rest of us, not plagued with the memories he was carrying with him.

    An enigma wrapped inside hmm something else enigmatic ad infinitum and wheels spinning inside other wheels [with apologies to Winston Churchill].
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  2. #17
    us
    Mar 2007
    southwest colorado
    266
    9 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Highmountain,
    I have been a fan of your posts for quite awhile and really enjoyed your book on the LAD. Years ago I read the Nino Chochise book and at the time I did have a lot of skepticism and took it all with a grain of salt. I thought some of the details was just too detailed for a 100 yr old man. Some of the reviewers of the book thought it was mostly fiction. Until i had read your LAD book I didn't connect the names or some of the places that he refered to . Now I have started rereading the Nino Chochise book and am wondering if in fact it has more than a grain of truth. In my first reading I didn't notice that he mentions the ruins Tayopa at lease four times, that was interesting. I tried to a little more research on him but his early years are a little fuzzy. I got the opinion that you in fact do put a lot of stock in the book. If tou don't mind sharing ,what are your thoughts on the book as a whole.
    Thanks,Bill

  3. #18

    Mar 2004
    New Mexico
    616
    7 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill96
    Highmountain,
    I have been a fan of your posts for quite awhile and really enjoyed your book on the LAD. Years ago I read the Nino Chochise book and at the time I did have a lot of skepticism and took it all with a grain of salt. I thought some of the details was just too detailed for a 100 yr old man. Some of the reviewers of the book thought it was mostly fiction. Until i had read your LAD book I didn't connect the names or some of the places that he refered to . Now I have started rereading the Nino Chochise book and am wondering if in fact it has more than a grain of truth. In my first reading I didn't notice that he mentions the ruins Tayopa at lease four times, that was interesting. I tried to a little more research on him but his early years are a little fuzzy. I got the opinion that you in fact do put a lot of stock in the book. If tou don't mind sharing ,what are your thoughts on the book as a whole.
    Thanks,Bill
    Hi Bill: Thanks for the comments and observations. Glad you enjoyed TLAD - M, M &M. In all honesty, I believe the Nino Cochise tome might be the only story involving the legend and the players that's as nearly honest and complete as the teller could make it. It's worth keeping in mind that when Nino Cochise related his tale to E. Kenney Griffith [we don't know when that was, but we know the book was first published before the Dobie yarn and all the flap in the El Paso Herald about the Lost Adams Diggings] John Brewer, James Street, Ammon Tenney, and Gray were all unknowns insofar as being participants in LAD.

    Brewer's presence in Mexico 1880ish to 1912 is established by unrelated documents such as birth records of his children born there. Probably nobody'd have ever known that if it hadn't been for Nino Cochise.

    Similarly, the similarities between Nino's story concerning the Apache Kid conversations related by the Yaqui showed up in Dobie more-or-less intact related by James Gray, who made no mention of Mexico with Street, Tenney and Brewer, but instead claimed he'd been in China and whatnot soldier-of-fortuning.

    I've made some other comments about the matter obliquely on the threads linked below:

    http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,156992.0.html
    http://snipurl.com/2a0ed [forum_treasurenet_com]

    http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.p...,150284.0.html
    http://snipurl.com/2a0eg [forum_treasurenet_com]

    Thanks again for the comments. I always enjoy discussing the Adams with someone who isn't trying to tell me where it is.

    Gracias,
    Jack

  4. #19

    Jan 2007
    Heavener oklahoma
    fisher gold bug2
    247

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    I posted a map in the New Mexico posts but it will not let me post it here said it is to big.
    check it out
    if you like what you are getting, keep doing what you are doing!!
    Life Member Viet Nam Veterans of America.
    N.R.A. Member
    GPAA Member

  5. #20
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,182
    2320 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    HI; Nino's book isn't available here, but what did he have to say about Tayopa?

    Since I have found Tayopa and now own it, I can easily tell if he was telling the truth or was even in the ball park, let alone the area..

    If he was telling the truth about Tayopa, then the book might be valuable in the search for the Adams mine.


    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  6. #21
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,755
    989 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Jose,

    Nino's book is a good....juvenile read. Anyone with the slightest knowledge of Apache life, in the old days, will realize it's a historical novel.
    That does not, however, mean there is no factual truth in the book. The trouble comes when trying to separate truth from fiction.

    Nino mentions Tayopa five times in his book. He gives enough information to locate the general area of the mine, assuming he has some actual idea where it is to begin with. I have serious doubts.

    The following map shows Tayopa as location #38. #36 is Las Chipas and #35 is El Tigre. Just above that, #34 is Pa-Gotzin-Kay Rancheria. Sno-Ta-Hae is a short walk from there.

    Hope this helps.

    Take care,

    Joe


  7. #22
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,755
    989 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Jose,

    Here is the first half of Nino's map:



    Take care,

    Joe

  8. #23
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,182
    2320 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Good Morning Joe: Gracias, if # 38 is supposedly Tayopa, he is probably referring to the Guaynopa / Guaynopita area. This is correct, since that "is" the Tayopa #1 zone. But with that map, forget it, one very, very, rough, huge country hehehe.

    This area is S/W of Madera, Chih. now accessable by a pickup, or lumber truck. From Madera it is only mule or foot travel, although they are opening up mineral properties in that area.

    On the northern tributaries of the Yaqui, one that does come close, is the Rio Bonito, also a country of vertical dimensions.

    The other river drainages are mostly, basically correct, but some are not, notably The Barranca de Cobre . # 39.


    At least he does give a starting point.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  9. #24
    Charter Member

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,755
    989 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Jose,

    I suppose if you have a dog named Toto, and live in Kansas, that could also be considered a starting point.....of sorts.

    You might suspect that Greenville Goodwin would have found such a large, developed Rancheria like Pa-Gotzin-Kay. Anyone know what that means in Apache? Goodwin spent a good deal of time tracking down what was left of the "Bronco Apache" in Mexico. You can read his account of what he found in a book that was written by his son, using his father's field notes.

    A few lesser know facts about Nino Cochise:

    When he first started telling his story about being the grandson of Cochise, he claimed that his father was "Nachite", and unknown son of Cochise who only had two sons. He later changed his story to make the well known Taza his father. It is also well known that Taza was never married and had no children.

    Nino had pale skin, brown hair and grey eyes. Hardly a description for a purebred Apache.

    Nino is a Spanish word for "young boy". There is no such word in the Apache language, that I know of. Ciye is a Lakota Sioux word for "my brother" when spoken by a man. I have seen it referred to as an Apache word meaning, "my son", but have had a hard time finding it in any of my sources.

    The gold mine has some background in Apache history. Such a mine is said to have been worked by Cochise's son and was something that Tom Jeffords was aware of. I believe that mine was in New Mexico. Need to look up that story again.

    Anyone who believes "The First 100 Years Of Nino Cochise" is anything but historical fiction, knows nothing about the Apache culture. The book was written by a man who died in his mid-eighties.....at the latest. Despite knowing where Sno-Tah-Hey or Sno-Tah-Hay is, Nino had nothing when he died. This after writing that he learned the value of gold early on and appreciated the things it could buy.

    Take care,

    Joe

  10. #25
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,182
    2320 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    OHIO JOE: Actually it would be far closer, say perhpas 30 50 miles. a little intellgent research can close that down considerably.

    The locations of both Guaynopa / Guaynopita are closely known. A main tail decends from Madera to the barranca where they are located - From there on you are on your own, lots of ruins and evidence of past mining.

    The cave that I referred to before, lies some 60 - 80 kilometers further south, so it probably is not
    SNO-TA- HAY.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  11. #26
    us
    Sep 2007
    1,797
    47 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Many great stories. I live in Bridgeport Connecticut and I do not like big snakes.

  12. #27
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,182
    2320 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Evening Puff daddy. Pick at el JOE, let's get this rolling again.


    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  13. #28
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,710
    1630 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Tag post please ignore.
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  14. #29
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    11,182
    2320 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Ollie ollie olson free. oro

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  15. #30
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1162 times

    Re: Lost Adams Diggings

    Funny how life goes now and then. There's a book I tried hard to find years back and couldn't, and finally forgot about it. Today, I was killing time waiting for my SO to complete her scanning at a yard sale when I looked down at a cluttered table and there it sat, Eight Golden Orgies, Adams' Bloody Canyon of Gold, by Sarah Stuart (Zola Crosby). 25 cents. A new analysis to think about and compare. I believe the book also contains some AZ stuff, including the Lost Dutchman.
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







 

 
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