The Other Lost Dutchman Gold Mine

Oroblanco

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Most treasure hunters are familiar with the famous Lost Dutchman gold mine of Jacob Waltz, supposed to be in the Superstition Mountains. Not so many are familiar with the OTHER Lost Dutchman gold mine of Arizona, which predates Waltz and was somewhere around Wickenburg.

One variety of the "Lost Dutchman" story concerns the operations of a German who made his headquarters at Wickenburg, in the early seventies. He had a very irritating habit of disappearing from the camp once in a while, going by night, and taking with him several burros, whose feet would be so well wrapped that trailing was impossible. He would return at night, in equally as mysterious a manner, his burros loaded with gold ore of wonderful richness. Efforts at tracking him failed. The country for miles around was searched carefully to find the source of his wealth, which could not have been very far distant. The ore was not the same as that at Vulture. The location of the mine never became known to anyone, save its discoverer. He disappeared as usual one night, and never returned. The assumption that he was murdered by Apaches appears to have been sustained by a prospector's discovery near Vulture in the summer of 1895 of the barrel of an old muzzle-loading shotgun, and by it, a home-made mosquito gun stock. The gun had been there so long that even the hammer and trigger had rusted away. Near by was a human skeleton, bleached from long exposure. The next find was some small heaps of very rich gold rock, probably where sacks had decayed from around the ore, and then at a short distance was discovered a shallow prospect hole, sunk on a gold-bearing ledge. The ore in the heaps was about the same character as that which had been brought into Wickenburg in the early days by the "Lost Dutchman," but it didn't agree at all with the ore in the shallow prospect hole, which was not considered worthy of further development.
<from Arizona, Prehistoric, Aboriginal, Pioneer, Modern: The Nation's Youngest
by James H. McClintock - Arizona - 1916 pp 392, online at Google books>

That this can not be Jacob Waltz is obvious from the fact his body was found several years after Waltz had passed away. The Vulture mine is one of the richest gold ore bodies in Arizona, but this other Dutchman must not have been simply highgrading from the Vulture as the ore was noticeably different. Highgrading was a major problem at the Vulture mine, discovered in 1863 by Henry Wickenburg but sold a few years later. Men caught highgrading (stealing high grade ore) were often hanged, supposedly at least 18 men were hanged at the Vulture over the years.

The region around Wickenburg is well known for being mineralized, and the presence of the Vulture mine shows just how rich it might be (the Vulture is believed to have produced at least $200,000,000 in gold before shutting down in 1942) so there is every reason to believe that this Lost Dutchman mine was not too far from Wickenburg.

I would appreciate any details that anyone can add to the story, whether documented or not. Thank you in advance. :icon_thumright:
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somehiker

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Heh Oro:
Maybe this guy?

The old dutchman walked his tired burro into Wickenburg one day. He'd been out in the desert for about six months without a drop of whiskey. He walked up to the first saloon he came to and tied his burro to the hitch rail.

As he stood there brushing some of the dust from his face and clothes, a couple of young gunslingers walked out of the saloon with a guns in one hand and a bottles of whiskey in the other. One of the young showoffs looked at the old man and laughed, saying, "Hey Dutchie, have you ever danced?"

The old man looked up at the gunslinger and said, "No, I never did dance. I just never wanted to."

A crowd had gathered by then and the gun-slinger said, "Well, you old fool, you're gonna dance now!"

The first young gunslinger started shooting at the old man's feet. The old prospector was hopping around and everybody was laughing. When the first gunslinger fired his last bullet,his sidekick added his own six rounds to the spectacle,whereupon they holstered their guns and turned around to go back into the saloon.

The old dutchman turned,reached over his burro, drew his shotgun and pulled both hammers back making a double clicking sound. The gunslingers heard the sound and everything got real quiet. The crowd watched as the two troublemakers slowly turned around, staring down both barrels of the shotgun.

The dutchman then asked, "Did you fellas ever kiss a burro's ass?"

Well, them young gunslingers swallowed real hard,then replied in unison---- "No---- But We've always wanted to."----

Regards:SH
 

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Oroblanco

Oroblanco

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ROFL :laughing7: :laughing9: ;D heh heh yep that sure sounds like the right guy!

I found a couple other short paragraphs very similar to the version posted, except for the date when the skeletal remains were found, saying it was discovered in the late 1870's rather than 1895.

This story of a Lost Dutchman mine was in circulation at least in the 1870's, while Jacob Waltz was alive. <I found a newspaper article mentioning it which was published in 1879> It is interesting that even the discoverer of the famous Vulture mine, Henry Wickenburg, was also a "Dutchman". There are other interesting similarities too, for one the Vulture mine was found in a mountain range made up mostly of volcanic rhyolite and andesite, which are not known for being good host rock types to find gold deposits. The quartz vein of the Vulture was multicolored, with several different layers (red, blue, black etc) and cropped out at the surface - so it is conceivable that other similar type ore deposits may occur in the same area.

I think it is safe to conclude this was a different Dutchman, firstly for the finding of the human remains, and the fact that he was active and known in Wickenburg in the early 1870's when Waltz was known to be in the Phoenix area. Without better clues to track this mine down, it is still possible to try to locate it through prospecting diligently and methodically. The Hassayampa river carries placer gold and several lode gold deposits are known in the Wickenburg area, most famous being the Vulture but also the Black Rock district (with mines north of Wickenburg, about 4.5 miles away on the E side of the river is the Oro Grande, with the Gold Bar around 15 miles NE of town, the Groom mine about 16 miles NE of town) the White Picacho district in the Wickenburg mountains, the Weaver and Martinez districts north of Wickenburg, and the Big Horn district SW of the Vulture district. The Golden Slipper mine in the White Picacho district in particular has very rich ore and was discovered at an early date, which at least indicates that the potential for a rich gold vein in the region is VERY good.

A good article on the geology of the Vulture mine, which also has a (small) map showing the general geology south of Wickenburg is online (free) at

http://www.azgs.az.gov/Mineral Scans/Geology of Vulture Gold Mine.pdf

Thank you for your reply Somehiker!
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BenThereDoneThat

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Could it possibly be the fella from Wickenburg was Waltz's buddy "Weiser" ?

Dude wouldnt give up the location of the mine.......Waltz killed him, took his gold/ore, stashed it in the super's then claimed he had a mine there to cover up the killing?
 

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Oroblanco

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T.Parker wrote
Could it possibly be the fella from Wickenburg was Waltz's buddy "Weiser" ?

Dude wouldnt give up the location of the mine.......Waltz killed him, took his gold/ore, stashed it in the super's then claimed he had a mine there to cover up the killing?

Interesting theory, but there are some problems. Waltz was in Phoenix by 1868, this Dutchman was active and known in Wickenburg in the early 1870's. Next, this Dutchman was found dead in the desert 1895, several years after Waltz's death, when Weiser was supposed to have died quite early in their partnership at the mine. Then there is the whole problem of Weiser, for according to Doctor Walker's story, Weiser came out of the Superstitions mortally wounded and was brought to his home where he tried to save him but Weiser died there - Doc Walker lived on the Salt river south of the Superstitions, quite some distance from Wickenburg. We would have to discard the whole of Dr Walker's story, which is where we got the name of Weiser in the first place - Waltz did not tell the name to Holmes or Julia & Reiney. :-\

Might make for a great movie script - the evil killer Waltz murders his friend and partner for the gold, hides it in the Supers, etc. :icon_thumleft:
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ORO: You posted-->

Might make for a great movie script - the evil killer Waltz murders his friend and partner for the gold, hides it in the Supers, etc.
Oroblanco
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don't start getting any interesting ideas! sheesh "BETH"!!!!!!!!

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BenThereDoneThat

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Writing a screen play right now.........
Will go with your story, My conclusion, Start a new legend, Will sell it to the mass's then we dont need no stinking gold !!!!
Will also leave out the other parts you mentioned Dates/Times That always gets in the way of a good story :thumbsup:
 

somehiker

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Hi TP:
Was looking at the sat views last night,to see if I could spot Randy sleeping out there somewhere,and I came across this.You,knowing your rock petroglyphs,might recognize this fella.You might have to downsize it a bit,but I think that it looks a lot like the squarehead figure holding a heart aloft with his right hand.Maybe you can work it into your screenplay......

Regards:SH
 

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Oroblanco

Oroblanco

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T.Parker wrote
Writing a screen play right now.........
Will go with your story, My conclusion, Start a new legend, Will sell it to the mass's then we dont need no stinking gold !!!!
Will also leave out the other parts you mentioned Dates/Times That always gets in the way of a good story

My apologies for being a 'wet blanket' and there are others who do think this other Dutchman was either Waltz or Weiser. Of course a movie script may work out very well financially - not sure how it worked out for Barry Storm, but once Hollywood gets involved any problems with factual history are easily ignored/changed/butchered in the name of "dramatic license".

Don Jose' - sheesh a movie script - as if I have not made enough promises and compromises already! Just as the light started showing at the end of the tunnel too! :o :-[ ::) ;D :tongue3: NO gracias compadre!

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Oroblanco

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Hola compadres,

I realize that this particular thread has been practically 'dead' (dormant at least) for some time, but have recently turned up a bit more; for one, the name of this Dutchman, Cal Madden. Here is another account of this Lost Dutchman;

Lost-Dutchman-vulture.jpg

<from The Secrets of the Rocks; or the Stories of the Hills and Gulches, by Samuel Milligan Frazier, Denver, CO, 1907, pp 170-71>

Have another bit, will try to post that later this evening.
Oroblanco

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Loke

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There are certain things about the (at least the first, initial) story that I have difficulties with ...
"He had an irritating habit of disappearing from camp, muffled mule-shoes, came back laden with gold/quartz"

Now - who was he camping out with? I also find it difficult that someone can just 'disappear' from camp (obviously several times) without anybody even trying to follow him. Had it been _me_, heck, I'll gladly sacrifice a night's sleep for some of that yellow stuff!
It's like: "If you fool me once - shame on you. If you fool me twice - shame on me"

I have never seen any other story than the one initiating this subject - and I have always wondered who the sleepy camp-followers/fellow-campers were ...

Per
 

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Oroblanco

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Loke, the mean Norse trickster god famous for his treatment of virgins wrote
There are certain things about the (at least the first, initial) story that I have difficulties with ...
"He had an irritating habit of disappearing from camp, muffled mule-shoes, came back laden with gold/quartz"

Now - who was he camping out with? I also find it difficult that someone can just 'disappear' from camp (obviously several times) without anybody even trying to follow him. Had it been _me_, heck, I'll gladly sacrifice a night's sleep for some of that yellow stuff!
It's like: "If you fool me once - shame on you. If you fool me twice - shame on me"

I have never seen any other story than the one initiating this subject - and I have always wondered who the sleepy camp-followers/fellow-campers were ...

Per

I believe the "camp" they refer to is Wickenburg, which had quite a number of fellows whom had rushed to the area on the discovery of the Vulture. These fellows were quick to try to follow anyone that might have a rich vein, hence Madden's tricks to come and go as he pleased.

That bit on wrapping the burro feet in burlap is a detail that I have seen transferred to the other Lost Dutchman story, which was one of the first points I picked up about the cross-contamination or confabulation of stories that had a little similarity. What struck me in this last version (posted above) was that it announced the mine had been rediscovered, in a rather matter of fact way as if everyone simply knew of it, yet there is no mention of it in any of the newspapers of the day. There are a large number of announcements of the Lost Dutchman having been rediscovered, none of which ended up being the one of Waltz, and this is the only one which is clearly referring to Madden's lost mine in the Vultures.

If you are interested in reading more of this other Lost Dutchman, there are a number of versions in the old newspapers; just do a search and limit your time period to before the secret of Waltz came into public view (1891) - there are two other Lost Dutchman mines in Arizona, at least one in California, one in Colorado (not lost today) and even one in the Black Hills of SD. The third Lost Dutchman gold mine in Arizona, other than Madden and Waltz, was found by a man named George Youngman of Prescott; his ledge was a couple of days hike from Prescott along a stream bed and dates to the 1860s. In his case, he mined enough gold to set up his family financially and pay off the mortgage on his farm in Missouri and went home never to return. As far as I know, no one has ever found that one again.

I have never searched for this lost mine, but think it would be a fun one to look for. The Vulture mountains are not too promising geologically but the existence of the Vulture mine belies the truth, another very rich gold mine very well could remain hidden there somewhere. I know of only one person whom has gone looking for Madden's lost mine in my lifetime and he got sidetracked, never heard if he went back again or not. I wonder if the "Mexican" referred to by Frazier failed to register his claim or failed to find it again or...? The area around Wickenburg is promising for gold, just ask our mutual amigo Randy (Djuicy).
Oroblanco

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Loke

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Ahhh - I never thought of Wickenburg itself being the 'camp' - duh!!
Well, that would put it into a fairly narrow circle - not?
How far can you travel with multiple burros, doing some digging and then be back again before sunup?
At a wild guess - at most 7-8 ?? One never travels as fast at night anyhow ...
Now, Wickenburg itself is a li'l bit stretched out - does anyone know if there used to be what-one-can-call a camp there?
If I remember right - the Vulture mine must around 20 miles from Wickenburg (please, correct me if am wrong) - so this 'lost mine' must be a lot nearer than the Vulture mine ...

Strangely enough - using the infamous GE - (I know, no real TH'er ever use GE - and "no real miner will ever find my mine") - but all the same - whatever struck me as possible sites would be somewhat NW of the Vulture mine ...
If the assumption that Wickenburg is _the_ camp - then we need to look a lot closer to 'home'

Just thinking out loud here ...

Per
 

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Oroblanco

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I can't see much to disagree on amigo. The only thing I can pick out is that clue about no miner being able to find my mine, is for Waltz, not Madden. That is the sort of thing that helps keep the lost mines lost!

Madden's mine can not be all that far from Wickenburg, and yes Wickenburg started out life as a mining camp made up of the usual collection of tents, which were then replaced with buildings. A village of sorts also existed at the Vulture mine itself, but Wickenburg was the main 'camp' for the prospectors who gathered in the area.

The area you suggest (NW of the Vulture) could be the right area for we don't know how far Madden was really traveling. Was he afoot or riding a mule? I sure don't know, and this was a key point with Waltz too for most have assumed that he went on foot to his mine when in reality he was always traveling on a mule, and you can very definitely cover more ground riding than you can walking. For most of us anyway, you may well surpass how far the ordinary person would hike in a day! :tongue3:
Roy

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Loke

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*sigh* I really have to read better and not just 'skim-read'.
I take back all I have said in my last two posts - because:
1) I didn't realize the 'camp' was Wickenburg itself
2) No-where does it actually say he left and came back on the same night - he left at night and came back at night ...

Per
 

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Oroblanco

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Howdy pard - we all have those same issues. This last (posted) version does mention that Madden had said his mine was "not many miles from the Vulture" and in the Vulture mountains which does help a bit, for at least we don't have to draw a huge circle around Wickenburg. Still a huge area to search though. A careful search by Google Earth might help pick out some promising areas too.

Have to be away for a bit, but will stay signed in and back shortly;
Roy
 

Loke

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Oroblanco said:
Howdy pard - we all have those same issues. This last (posted) version does mention that Madden had said his mine was "not many miles from the Vulture" and in the Vulture mountains which does help a bit, for at least we don't have to draw a huge circle around Wickenburg. Still a huge area to search though. A careful search by Google Earth might help pick out some promising areas too.

Have to be away for a bit, but will stay signed in and back shortly;
Roy

Surely, thou art jesting??
Do you seriously think that li'l ole me would stoop down to using Google Earth??

(that being said - he, he - there are many places that look promising ... if it were me, I would concentrate on the eastern slopes of Vulture Mountains - rather than where all the 'prospects' are - on the NE side across the 'canyon' (for lack of a better word))
*sigh* Where is Randy when you need him?
 

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