Missing Hikers

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI side thingie, Mexico city news reports that about 84 illegals have lost their lives crossing from the Mexican border to Tucson recently due to lack of water and heat. not good for our boys in the superstitions.

Don Jose de La Mancha el *Tropical Trampo

 

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[gollum]

off topic a little bit, but are there any precautions a hiker can take in regards to bees? Any way to protect oneself?

Carry either a military poncho liner or an emergency blanket. You get close to the ground and cover yourself. You will get some stings, but the majority will be soaked up by the material.

If you get a swarm after you, you won't have time to put on a bee suit or any special equipment. I haven't looked, but there may be a commercially available bee protection suit that you can throw on quickly. I just carry what I always have.

Best-Mike

 

[Windlander]

My personal opinion is that, most likely, these 3 poor gentlemen found themselves, simply, outmatched by the "Supes". She always brings her "A" game and it doesn't look like they were prepared for that. Very sad and our family is praying for their families. I have a feeling that if they are found, they will find 2 men near each other (if that is possible at the time they are discovered) and the third one somewhere else. I was born and raised in AZ and the Supes are where I cut my teeth, so to speak. It is hard to explain to some of my out of state friends just how merciless they can be... Please BEWARE.

A questions for ya'll:

1) What is the validity of the Apache Indians who are presumed to be guarding thier sacred sites from desicration? They ever really exist? Still there? I once read an article about an Apache indian that the author named "Little foot" due to the small size of footprint he left. He supposedly traveled from the San Carlos Reservation to "watch"? I'm sorry that I can't site the actual article at this time but does that ring a bell to anyone? Just curious. I have heard that they have been blamed for harrassing LDM hunters? Could this be a possibility with these men?
Just trying to get some ideas. Thanks in advance.

 

[gollum]

My personal opinion is that, most likely, these 3 poor gentlemen found themselves, simply, outmatched by the "Supes". She always brings her "A" game and it doesn't look like they were prepared for that. Very sad and our family is praying for their families. I have a feeling that if they are found, they will find 2 men near each other (if that is possible at the time they are discovered) and the third one somewhere else. I was born and raised in AZ and the Supes are where I cut my teeth, so to speak. It is hard to explain to some of my out of state friends just how merciless they can be... Please BEWARE.

A questions for ya'll:

1) What is the validity of the Apache Indians who are presumed to be guarding thier sacred sites from desicration? They ever really exist? Still there? I once read an article about an Apache indian that the author named "Little foot" due to the small size of footprint he left. He supposedly traveled from the San Carlos Reservation to "watch"? I'm sorry that I can't site the actual article at this time but does that ring a bell to anyone? Just curious. I have heard that they have been blamed for harrassing LDM hunters? Could this be a possibility with these men?
Just trying to get some ideas. Thanks in advance.

I see someone has been lurking the Desert USA Site!

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Windlander my friend: Today's Indians are no different than the rest of the conglomeration that makes up America, they are well aware of what Gold represents and if they had any knowledge of the LDM they would have been bringing out Gold themselves long ago, not sporadically eliminating a hiker here or there... Remember, there are thousands of visitors in there yearly.

If there is any hanky panky, it may be due to some nut case hiding out in there, - hmm where is Djuicy? haven't' seen him for some time? - but this is unlikely, since continued residence would show up in many ways.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Springfield]

off topic a little bit, but are there any precautions a hiker can take in regards to bees? Any way to protect oneself?

Carry either a military poncho liner or an emergency blanket. You get close to the ground and cover yourself. You will get some stings, but the majority will be soaked up by the material.

If you get a swarm after you, you won't have time to put on a bee suit or any special equipment. I haven't looked, but there may be a commercially available bee protection suit that you can throw on quickly. I just carry what I always have.

Best-Mike

As always, be alert to your surroundings. If you approach a swarm, you will nearly always be warned by one or more of the hive's scouts - you will be gently bumped or tapped. If this happens, immediately backtrack the way you came at a slow or moderate pace - don't run. If you're overcome, I guess Mike's advice is as good as any, but it's going to be nearly impossible to cover all parts of your body and once on the hunt, the Africanized bees are relentless.

A space blanket is essential gear anywhere you go for a variety of reasons.

 

[Springfield]

....A questions for ya'll:
1) What is the validity of the Apache Indians who are presumed to be guarding thier sacred sites from desicration? They ever really exist? Still there? I once read an article about an Apache indian that the author named "Little foot" due to the small size of footprint he left. He supposedly traveled from the San Carlos Reservation to "watch"? I'm sorry that I can't site the actual article at this time but does that ring a bell to anyone? Just curious. I have heard that they have been blamed for harrassing LDM hunters? Could this be a possibility with these men?
Just trying to get some ideas. Thanks in advance.

I've heard of such things with the Utes in Utah and also the Apaches at San Carlos/Whiteriver. Anyone who has spent much time around natives will have a hard time swallowing these sorts of stories as most natives have been bombarded with whitey's ways for many generations now. Free money, housing and mindless entertainment is hard to resist for the inmates.

That said, I still hold out hope that some of the tribes (the pueblos in particular) have kept their secrets among themselves. After all, despite the big catlick and mormon churches onsite, some of the elders still hold members-only meetings in the kivas and we really have no idea what they do down there. It's much, much harder for me to believe that the Apaches would maintain a 'watcher' group, but anything's possible I guess - makes for good treasure magazine fodder anyway. Now the Utes ... they're an interesting bunch.

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

"Believe that the Apaches would maintain a 'watcher' group" In every group of people you are going to have some Haters im not saying all Apache are haters, however, I know for a fact there are Haters. Many Native Americans Still Hold Traditional Beliefs About White Man.>>>> WASHINGTON, DC—Despite more than four centuries of the erosion of their native society, a large majority of First Nations peoples still maintain their culture's traditional beliefs about Caucasians, which were handed down by previous generations, according to a study released by the """"((((U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs.))))"""" . "Our research revealed that most Native Americans view 'the white man' as a deceitful, avaricious, exploitive mass murderer, just as their ancestors did," BIA Interim Assistant Secretary James Cason said. "It remains unclear why, in an age when so much of their culture has been lost to time, this tradition remains as strong as ever."

 

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

Also What about the incognito? “White Indians,” that is, Indians who don't “look like” Indians. For example, in a group of sixty-seven Indians who
met in recent intertribal convention, only thirty-three had a
conspicuously Indian appearance.
Dr. Ales Hrdlicka, physical
anthropologist of the Smithsonian Institution. The matter of the racial
purity of the North American Indian tribes. One of his comments was of
special interest: "There is probably not a full-blood Indian in this
continent today." Generally speaking, however, it seems tenable that
persons who have less than a half degree of Indian blood are fairly
indistinguishable in the general American population.

 

[Windlander]

Anyone see any similarities between the Capen story and these men? (Beside the fact that they are missing looking for the same thing?).

Did these three men ever check into a hotel and do their day searches from there, only to return at night, as planned. I would be interested to know if their plan to use a Motel as a base camp was ever actually used or did they just disappear on their first day?

The Capen story intrigues me a bit more. These three gentlemen went out with very little to no equipment (that is known to the searchers) and so logically, at least to me, there would be less items to be left in the desert to find. But with Capen, apparently he left virtually everything at his camp site. In fact, I feel uncomfortable with how much was left. Almost too much. Did the Deputies have any explanation for why so many of his personal items would be left there when he was obviously not anywhere to be found?(Cell phone, wallet, food, water, etc...) Any possible scenarios, fowl play or otherwise? Did they find any of his maps at his site?

Again, just thinking outloud.

Thanks, James

 

[dustcap]

One other possibility is a large bee swarm,especially if they were well off trail.That is about the only thing that really makes me nervous out there and,depending on the time of year...The sound was near deafening as they paused around a clump of mesquite above me...That was the second such swarm that I have witnessed out there so far.
Regards:SH.

I'm glad you mentioned the bees SH. First post I have read here in many years that even mentions them.
I too had an encounter with a very large swarm. I was looking at the 'ancient' markings on the TOP of Black Top Mesa (southern end overlooking Bluff Springs Mountain to the southeast) when the swarm passed overhead about 20 to 30 feet above me. I don't remember hearing the noise, just the blackening of the sky. That swarm was about 25 feet wide and over 100 feet long. They passed directly over me and headed toward the rest of the party I was with; Ron Feldman, his ranchhand whose name I cannot remember, Tom Kolenborn and 4 or 5 others taking the 'LDM tour' from the OK Corral in AJ. I sat very still and yelled to the others of the approaching danger. (I knew that loud noises could provoke them but the warning was more important to all concerned, ...or so I thought. Besides, there was no place to hide as I was sitting on a rock at the very edge of the cliff to see the markings as they passed by heading northwest.
I was most surprised by the altitude they were flying at. Apparently they were headed somewhere and didn't bother with us or the grass/blooms that were prevalent at that time of year. It was in the spring, March or April I believe and the grass was high enough for the horses to eat as they walked along on top of the mesa without hardly bending down to reach it. (about waist high on a man)
I would venture a guess that there were many thousands of bees in that swarm. I was too stunned to take a picture. Sorry. Maybe one of the others, there that day, did

 

[Deepdiger60]

You would think at least one guy would have a Personal Locator Beacon if your sure your hopelessly lost just push the button it sends out a SOS beacon plus the GPS location not a big investment between 200 and 300 dollars for a good one ,but its spilled milk now Dd60

 

[warsawdaddy]

I heard several years ago,20-30-40 while I was working for the Gov't,that the military had discovered what they believed was the LDM on Air Force? land,excavated it and sealed it up.I don't believe I would be looking for it today.At least not before researching all the military records I could get released thru 'Freedom of Info act.

 

[gollum]

I heard several years ago,20-30-40 while I was working for the Gov't,that the military had discovered what they believed was the LDM on Air Force? land,excavated it and sealed it up.I don't believe I would be looking for it today.At least not before researching all the military records I could get released thru 'Freedom of Info act.

WD,

I believe you are thinking about Victorio Peak, New Mexico. It is part of White Sands Missile Range. The DLM is in the Superstition Mountain Wilderness Area (somewhere), and there is no Military Land there. Only Tonto National Forest and the SMWA.

Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...-junction-superstition-hikers-search0720.html

SGnAZ,

While officially they have stopped operations, they have not stopped operations. Here is a quote from Tom Kollenborn on another Forum to two of the relatives yesterday (21st):

Veronica & Delilia

Robert Cooper, Commander of SSAR, had ten S&R volunteers in the mountain tonight, Wednesday, July 21, 2010. They started there search at First Water. They are very dedicated and hard working volunteers who care about other people. They were out until 9:00 PM tonight looking for your loved ones. They have planned another search for each day. They will also be out at day break on Saturday with another search pattern. Let's hope they find something that will help bring a good closure to this situation in the mountains.

Tom K.

Things are not always as they seem.

Best-Mike

 

[warsawdaddy]

I heard several years ago,20-30-40 while I was working for the Gov't,that the military had discovered what they believed was the LDM on Air Force? land,excavated it and sealed it up.I don't believe I would be looking for it today.At least not before researching all the military records I could get released thru 'Freedom of Info act.

WD,

I believe you are thinking about Victorio Peak, New Mexico. It is part of White Sands Missile Range. The DLM is in the Superstition Mountain Wilderness Area (somewhere), and there is no Military Land there. Only Tonto National Forest and the SMWA.

Best-Mike

You are probably right.Thanks for the enlightment and understanding an old man here.

 

[gollum]

No worries.

If you're not in the middle of all the crap, nobody can keep track of all the different stories out there. HAHAHA

Best-Mike