All Lost Dutchman Mine Maps

[cactusjumper]

.... the Apache, the Superstitions are a sacred place. It’s the home of their “Thunder God.”
And, that Thunder God did not welcome any trespassers. Only the Apache themselves were welcome in the Superstitions.

This Thunder God was so powerful and dangerous, the other local tribes stayed far away from his home. Those foolhardy enough to enter the Superstitions seldom came back out.
"The Apache has always believed only they can pass through the superstitions safely"

Nice campfire story.

Springfield,

Once again, you are correct. Everything on the earth was sacred to the Apache, and all mountains were especially revered.

Barry Storm, no doubt, probably heard this, and decided to weave it into his book. Campfire tales sell books.

The Apache were not the first Native Americans in the Superstition Mountains.....by a long shot. Many modern-day Apache don't really know their true history. Sounds like this one learned his from "Thunder God's Gold".

Take care,

Joe

 

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[Blindbowman]

.... the Apache, the Superstitions are a sacred place. It’s the home of their “Thunder God.”
And, that Thunder God did not welcome any trespassers. Only the Apache themselves were welcome in the Superstitions.

This Thunder God was so powerful and dangerous, the other local tribes stayed far away from his home. Those foolhardy enough to enter the Superstitions seldom came back out.
"The Apache has always believed only they can pass through the superstitions safely"

Nice campfire story.

Springfield,

Once again, you are correct. Everything on the earth was sacred to the Apache, and all mountains were especially revered.

Barry Storm, no doubt, probably heard this, and decided to weave it into his book. Campfire tales sell books.

The Apache were not the first Native Americans in the Superstition Mountains.....by a long shot. Many modern-day Apache don't really know their true history. Sounds like this one learned his from "Thunder God's Gold".

Take care,

Joe

i second that .. well said joe

 

[NativeOne]

[mod]TERMS OF USE VIOLATION[/mod]

[mod]OFF TOPIC[/mod]

 

[NativeOne]

[mod] TERMS OF USE VIOLATION[/mod]

[mod] OFF TOPIC[/mod]

 

[NativeOne]

[mod]TERMS OF USE VIOLATION/OFF TOPIC--------------FINAL WARNING!!![/mod]

 

[Blindbowman]

who was looking for the LDM anyway ...?

 

[dustcap]

TERMS OF USE VIOLATION/OFF TOPIC--------------FINAL WARNING!!!

FINALLY! Thanks mod.

I did not see one post (after the first two) by NativeOne that said anything about the TOPIC of this post. Seems he needed a place to put his rants and didn't know how to start one of his own. Word association starts most tangent arguments as it did here.

I feel sorry for the treatment his long dead ancestors got from our Gov't troops but from what I have read it wasn't to get their land, etc. It was retribution for their attacks on other tribes as well as the white settlers. The 25 Massacre Grounds victims were Mexican. Hence the bounty on INDIAN scalps culminating in the fall food feast where almost all the Indians attending were murdered. One that escaped... Geronimo, started the Indian Wars resulting in the massacre of all whites they found. It also saw the massacre of a group of Indians camped between Weavers Needle and Fremont Saddle. The Gov't troops were hiding in the rocks to the east of the encampment and began the bloodshed as the sun rose behind them. At another battle the Indians were hiding behind rocks in a cave with a sloping ceiling, the soldiers ricocheted bullets off the ceiling and killed them all.

Bad guys started it and a bad Indian tried to get even... now they are all dead.

As Rodney King (who's nationality were slaves) said... "Can't we all just get along?"

The only thing I agree with our Pres about is that we all need to sit down with a peace pipe and...

NOW about the topic... not all the maps that are supposed to be LDM maps have enough information to locate anything let alone treasure. IMHO some are nothing more than doddle pads during a conversation to explain or indicate a particular point the speaker was talking about.

-dustcap

 

[Oroblanco]

Well one map of that group originally referred to in this topic, definitely has nothing to do with the Dutchman or even the Superstition mountains at all; the Sleeping Lady Squaw map. http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=13

I would hope that no one is using this one to search the Superstitions for the LDM!

As for the whole 'rant' there, too much hype from Hollywood. Learn the truth, as distasteful as it may be, before making conclusions about anyone owing apologies.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Three of the maps given to Erwin Ruth are likely authentic.

The Fish Map

......... and possible the map found in the Petrasch Family Stamp Album.

Best-Mike

 

[Blindbowman]

Three of the maps given to Erwin Ruth are likely authentic.

The Fish Map

......... and possible the map found in the Petrasch Family Stamp Album.

Best-Mike

sorry mike i have to disagree with part of your statement .. IMHO Erwin Ruth was never given those maps and manuscripes the way he told his father he had ..to much bs in the story to be true ,, and to much link to the time and death of Freddy Crystal....so we are only getting the a story from Erwin Ruth ,,.. one that dose not fit the facts

 

[somehiker]

Well one map of that group originally referred to in this topic, definitely has nothing to do with the Dutchman or even the Superstition mountains at all; the Sleeping Lady Squaw map. http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=13

I would hope that no one is using this one to search the Superstitions for the LDM!

As for the whole 'rant' there, too much hype from Hollywood. Learn the truth, as distasteful as it may be, before making conclusions about anyone owing apologies.
Oroblanco

Yes,that "map" looks like someone had once sketched a partial heart sticking out of the ground at the top of a page.Then later doodled a few other scribbled lines,a corn stalk,a couple of asterisks,and some modern english words,and wound up with something that looked like a "treasure map",probably while talking to their mother in law on the phone.
There's no sketch of a "Sleeping Lady Squaw" anywhere on it and it looks like the title was printed ,in capital letters, on the edge of the page by someone else anyway.I don't think that anyone has ever considered this one seriously as being anywhere in particular.Everywhere there is rock,from boulders to entire mountains,there are a few that look like a heart to someone looking for "hearts".

Regards:SH.

 

[Blindbowman]

nieve one

seeing how you voiced your opioions about the Apache in this post and even if it was off topic and plained that way .. lets hear your point of veiw on why the Apache lie and try to misled people from finding these sites .. we do not have to prove the Apache were not the founders of chicomoztoc .. its a fact .. so .. if your saying the Apache are protecting this site when it is now NFS land then your saying the Apache are brakeing the law ....and maybe the cause of some of the disappeaences in the mts near these sites ...

lets hear your replies to those issuse not the i am hollyer then thou Apache .. i am part mohawk my past we would have cut your heart out and eat it and stold your soul .. so Apache have a lot of thinking to do about what these sites mean .. at this point you can no longer keep them hidden .. the sites need to be protected .. and its not going to be the Apache that do that at this point in time .. its the goverment .. so i ask you how are your people going to react when these sites are made public ..

you can not just take the sites and say they are Apache .. they clearly are not ..


in fact the Apache can not speak for the 7 tribes ,
many disagree with your tribe now ...


my point is .. if you feel so strongly about the mts being a Apache holly place .. then give us a clear and dirrect out line why ..

i know where the sites are and beyond the others here at the site,i under stand why they are holly sites .. but i see no dirrect link to the Apache any more then any other native tribe even my own ,..

if you are so willing to voice your opioions about the Apache step up and lets here the whole story from you.. whats your side of it . and dont go off all hollyer then tho ...

i respect the Apache form who they are not what they can steal from others .. i married a ,blackfoot tribe (buckskin)so i may disagree with with you say .. but unless you voice your opioions with out attacking other members of the site like a crazy out shaman ...we will not know your point of veiw..


i know the Apache have been misledding people for more then 100 years ...do you think these will make any difernce in the long run?

the way i see it .i may be your only real way out ...

i dont want to work the mines .. and i do want to protect the sites .. chicomoztoc is worth more then any rock from the earth .. it is the brithplace of tribes ..


i have seat and looked at the wall of dreams .. have you ..? what do you think it means .. ?

i see the heart and so and dreams of thuosands of years of faith and growth of the 7 tribes ...i see the souls of the childern of chicoo ... i know i was once one of them .. how do you think protecting these site by killing people will protect them at all .. it will make it worse ..they goverment only need link the Apache to one death dirrectly and your people will be in shame for ever .. do you under stand what i am saying ?

step back and watch what the white indain of the north dose ... i will free your people more then you will ever do in your life time ..the truth about chicoo will be writtern and it will be the truth ...

you made this post to be herd ,, so lets hear you and keep control of your spirit show us your strong not weak ...be Apache ..

 

[cactusjumper]

Well one map of that group originally referred to in this topic, definitely has nothing to do with the Dutchman or even the Superstition mountains at all; the Sleeping Lady Squaw map. http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=3&pos=13

I would hope that no one is using this one to search the Superstitions for the LDM!

As for the whole 'rant' there, too much hype from Hollywood. Learn the truth, as distasteful as it may be, before making conclusions about anyone owing apologies.
Oroblanco

Yes,that "map" looks like someone had once sketched a partial heart sticking out of the ground at the top of a page.Then later doodled a few other scribbled lines,a corn stalk,a couple of asterisks,and some modern english words,and wound up with something that looked like a "treasure map",probably while talking to their mother in law on the phone.
There's no sketch of a "Sleeping Lady Squaw" anywhere on it and it looks like the title was printed ,in capital letters, on the edge of the page by someone else anyway.I don't think that anyone has ever considered this one seriously as being anywhere in particular.Everywhere there is rock,from boulders to entire mountains,there are a few that look like a heart to someone looking for "hearts".

Regards:SH.

Wayne & Roy,

For more information on this subject, I would suggest:

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=630&start=0&hilit=sleeping

Just ignore the choice words about yours truly. I got vey popular on that site.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

you mean that map is not real .... aw ...

 

[somehiker]

Hi Joe:
Unfortunately the thread that you linked,which I have looked at previously,doesn't have enough left of it to garner much insight.One of the reasons that I have not referred to this subject before.I haven't read Greg's article as yet,or know which map he used.Nor have I seen his photos,so I cannot comment on anything other than the map from the collection that Roy seems to be referring to.One of the other two maps that I have seen thus far,(Dobie's I believe),positions the Pima gold mines in Four Peaks country,the other further to the west.Neither map shows anything resembling a heart.It is possible,of course,that the "Sleeping Lady" map in the collection has been merely mislabelled.The history,that the legend itself is based on,seems to date back to the time when Casa Grande was in much better condition.Some of that history,as remembered by the Pima, was recorded by Fr. Jacobo Sedelmayr in his manuscripts/journals

Regards:Wayne

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you Joe for the linkee; Wayne is right about that Sleeping Lady/squaw legend, if you have the books handy perhaps you could fill in some details for our readers but it is quite a different lost mine legend altogether and a completely different area from the Superstitions. I don't have the right book handy and doubt this one will turn up with a Google, just too old a story and not well known.
Roy

PS I believe there is a different map also titled "Sleeping squaw" or lady, quite different from the one we have been discussing. Anyone recall seeing a different map with a very similar name?

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy and Wayne,

It's a pretty long article with copies of a number of maps and letters. I will bring it to the Rendezvous and it will be available for anyone who wants to read it.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Furness]

Hi All,

Has this been mentioned on T Net before ? with a map and photo being posted, and someone else mentioned reversing it in a mirror ?
I seem to remember it was posted by Joe, but i could be wrong on that, apologies if it wasn't you joe but can anyone point me to the thread it was in,

Regards

John

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Furness: a mirror image, upside down, was a simple, but favorite trick of the Jesuits.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

Good morning Furness: a mirror image, upside down, was a simple, but favorite trick of the Jesuits.

Don Jose de La Mancha

RDT - I've seen a number of stories regarding mirror image/upside down/reverse order type things attributed to the Jesuit order. I'm not really a believer one way or another yet and I admit I haven't studied the subjects like a number of you obvious have, but...

Are there any clear case, undisputed and documented cases anyone can show of Jesuit "coded maps," etc... that are proven to work based on the mirror image, upside down, etc... techniques?