The Wagoner Lost Ledge

[Matthew Roberts]

its in the right area could be..either way its good stuff

Dave,..... Look close at that gold, there is still the host rock with the gold. That gold wasn't placer it was broken out of the host rock which is rusty red color. That can only be hematite or bouse and it looks a lot more like hematite.

 

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[azdave35]

Dave,..... Look close at that gold, there is still the host rock with the gold. That gold wasn't placer it was broken out of the host rock which is rusty red color. That can only be hematite or bouse and it looks a lot more like hematite.

the guy that found the gold thought the same...he spent a lot of days prospecting the area and never found the source...i guess you could call it placer because it was found at the base of a hill at the creek line...he figured the source was on the hill but couldn't locate it

 

[wrmickel1]

about 15 years ago i talked to a guy that found some big nuggets with a metal detector in the area of waggoners lost gold...i ran across the pic today..thought some of you guys might want to see it
View attachment 1741963

.

Dave that’s a pretty good matchup to your pic,
Did anybody claim to have found waggoners lost gold or perhaps I did find it, I never claimed it was the Dutchman’s.

babymick1

 

[azdave35]

. View attachment 1742019

Dave that’s a pretty good matchup to your pic,
Did anybody claim to have found waggoners lost gold or perhaps I did find it, I never claimed it was the Dutchman’s.

babymick1

this guy posted pics on all the nugget shooter forums when he found them...if you look around you might be able to find his post and read the story

 

[JohnWhite]

. View attachment 1742019

Dave that’s a pretty good matchup to your pic,
Did anybody claim to have found waggoners lost gold or perhaps I did find it, I never claimed it was the Dutchman’s.

babymick1

People make all kinds of claims...I have made quite a few myself...lol...Some of us may never know for certain exactly what is that we have found...I still believe I have been to a little silver deposit somewhere in Mexico...I am not all that sure of where the deposit it...Other than the state...Oh well...

You know what you know Mick...And you really don't need to share it with any of us...Just as I do not care to share any of my little play areas with anyone on this site either...Maybe one day you may write a book about it Mick...At least you have pictures...Heck...I don't even have any of those...hahaha

Ed T

 

[wrmickel1]

People make all kinds of claims...I have made quite a few myself...lol...Some of us may never know for certain exactly what is that we have found...I still believe I have been to a little silver deposit somewhere in Mexico...I am not all that sure of where the deposit it...Other than the state...Oh well...

You know what you know Mick...And you really don't need to share it with any of us...Just as I do not care to share any of my little play areas with anyone on this site either...Maybe one day you may write a book about it Mick...At least you have pictures...Heck...I don't even have any of those...hahaha

Ed T

Yah I know Ed, But I do intend to post the Peralta Stone Maps, Finnal Destination. Pictures the hole step of the way. But when I do I’ll already have filed claims on the important sites. I don’t see no harm in that. And they can judge the results themselves. But there will alway be the skeptics can’t Please everyone. But 99.999 will be.

Cause they an’t seen nothing yet. BTO

Babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Yah I know Ed, But I do intend to post the Peralta Stone Maps, Finnal Destination. Pictures the hole step of the way. But when I do I’ll already have filed claims on the important sites. I don’t see no harm in that. And they can judge the results themselves. But there will alway be the skeptics can’t Please everyone. But 99.999 will be.

Cause they an’t seen nothing yet. BTO

Babymick1

WE CANT WAIT MICK

 

[JohnWhite]

Yah I know Ed, But I do intend to post the Peralta Stone Maps, Finnal Destination. Pictures the hole step of the way. But when I do I’ll already have filed claims on the important sites. I don’t see no harm in that. And they can judge the results themselves. But there will alway be the skeptics can’t Please everyone. But 99.999 will be.

Cause they an’t seen nothing yet. BTO

Babymick1

Claim...We don't need no stinking claim...hehehe...You can file as many claims as you like Mick...I have no plans on going that route...Too many headaches...And that would let the cat out of the bag...

It is about time someone has done something about them dang pop ups...There are still a few of them around but it is much better...

Ed T...

 

[gollum]

I didn't understand what have you wrote. Only the last sentence. But the word " quit " hit a nerve somewhere in my right brain hemisphere. If you want to give orders , just buy a dog.

NECROPOSTING (necro= pertaining to death, posting= posting) is when you post on a thread that hasn't been active for several years. Typically, the OP (original poster) will not be an active poster any more, as well as other people (like Blindbowman). You would do better by just starting a new thread on the subject. Now........SIT!

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

NECROPOSTING (necro= pertaining to death, posting= posting) is when you post on a thread that hasn't been active for several years. Typically, the OP (original poster) will not be an active poster any more, as well as other people (like Blindbowman). You would do better by just starting a new thread on the subject. Now........SIT!

Mike

Hahahahaha! Excellent!

 

[markmar]

NECROPOSTING (necro= pertaining to death, posting= posting) is when you post on a thread that hasn't been active for several years. Typically, the OP (original poster) will not be an active poster any more, as well as other people (like Blindbowman). You would do better by just starting a new thread on the subject. Now........SIT!

Mike

Loke is active and my post was connected to what another poster wrote in this thread. Every time I write a post you are jumping in and you are searching for an argument.
When I will need an advice, you will be the last in my list.
I'm looking forward to meet you, now I believe I have a motivation.

 

[Loke]

@markmar,
Yes, I know you did and I have no problems with the 'necroposting' as such. What I do not like are the following:
1) It is the same place that you gave me the coords to all those years ago, I told you then that I _would_ check it out if the opportunity arose (which it didn't - we had other 'fish to fry')
2) You boasted to someone else (can't remember who) that you had given someone (ie _me_) the wrong coords but the right area to see what I could report back. That is NOT nice!! If you post coords, you post the correct ones (to the best of your ability) - or you don't give them out at all. You DO NOT send someone on a wild goose-chase - that is a most definite no-no!!

Because of this - I have never seriously tried to find it. If I happen to be in the vicinity, I might ...
My partners and I have but a short time each year, and seriously, Wagoner's is not all that high on the list - mainly because it is within the wilderness area (so no financial benefit, but maybe personal satisfaction).

 

[somehiker]

@markmar,
Yes, I know you did and I have no problems with the 'necroposting' as such. What I do not like are the following:
1) It is the same place that you gave me the coords to all those years ago, I told you then that I _would_ check it out if the opportunity arose (which it didn't - we had other 'fish to fry')
2) You boasted to someone else (can't remember who) that you had given someone (ie _me_) the wrong coords but the right area to see what I could report back. That is NOT nice!! If you post coords, you post the correct ones (to the best of your ability) - or you don't give them out at all. You DO NOT send someone on a wild goose-chase - that is a most definite no-no!!

Because of this - I have never seriously tried to find it. If I happen to be in the vicinity, I might ...
My partners and I have but a short time each year, and seriously, Wagoner's is not all that high on the list - mainly because it is within the wilderness area (so no financial benefit, but maybe personal satisfaction).

Hey Loke

Are you still interested in finding the Wagoner's outcrop or just in the story?
I found the description of the Wagoner's site in TucsonHiker's post almost accurate, with the exception of the two black hills, which are not hills at all, but small rocky ground outcroppings.
Because I know you will don't go where I would tell you to go, and maybe nobody else, I will post an aerial image of the mine's site, giving a big clue which is a trail that lies close to the Wagoner's mine.
Find that piece of trail and you will find the mine which is in the yellow circle from the image/map.
The decision to grab the opportunity or to leave it to go, is in your hands.

View attachment 1741678

It's all just a misunderstanding. That when we say "he needs to put his boots on the ground", we must really mean "someone else's boots". I guess if he can substitute the "two black hills" reported by an actual witness, with a couple of boulders in a GE crop that he interprets as small outcroppings from the vantage point of his computer screen, that works for him.
I've had similar offers from other GE treasure hunters. My answer is always the same.....that if they really believe something's there, that they should get out to the mountains and see it themselves.

 

[somehiker]

A repost of the Wagoner description:

" Wagoner said the gold ore was located four hours walking time north of the “Narrows” on the stage route. The ledge was located near two black hills. A sharp needle rock could be seen on the horizon to the north. Water could be found one mile to the east year around no matter how dry the season was. Indian markings can be found on the rocks just to the west of the site over some very rough and steep terrain. The old alternate route for the military trail between Fort McDowell and Camp Pinal lie about one mile to the north. Fred Mullins never found Wagoner’s golden ledge and it remains lost to this day."

Anyone who has spent some of their own time to the south and eastward of Gold Canyon knows of a few pairings of "black hills". Many of which also have ancient petroglyphs visible on the black surfaces of their rock faces and boulders. If the day ever comes, when we can see those petros on Google Earth, I might change my mind about it's value in locating what Waltz or Wagoner themselves said about their finds.

 

[somehiker]

One thing sat views are good for though., is showing others what something you have actually seen yourself might have looked like from outer space, had Wagoner been able to hitch a ride on a spaceship. If he could have, what he might have seen would have looked like this when he was done digging.

 

[gollum]

Loke is active and my post was connected to what another poster wrote in this thread. Every time I write a post you are jumping in and you are searching for an argument.
When I will need an advice, you will be the last in my list.
I'm looking forward to meet you, now I believe I have a motivation.

You are most welcome to attend the Lost Dutchman Rendezvous the first weekend of this November. I will be there, and highly welcome a face to face meeting. Otherwise, you are just another internet tough guy...................oh, and I will post/respond to anything I please.

Also, most people on many treasure forums have known me for several years before you ever showed up. They all know my demeanor and my personality. Many of them know me personally, as I am not afraid for people to know my name and meet me in person. I give honest opinions based on facts and knowledge from many sources (including archives, libraries, old timers, and boots on the ground). I don't base all my hopes and dreams on little but grainy Google Earth Screenshots, and weak supposition.

Best of luck in your hunting!

Mike

 

[gollum]

One thing sat views are good for though., is showing others what something you have actually seen yourself might have looked like from outer space, had Wagoner been able to hitch a ride on a spaceship. If he could have, what he might have seen would have looked like this when he was done digging.

HERE is one time I completely agree with the use of Google Earth! If you find something interesting on the ground, then find the spot on GE and see if anything stands out. GE is also VERY good for finding old trails. GE was how I first found the narrow trail Ely wrote about on the SouthEast Side of Bluff Springs Mountain. If, however, you use GE to make initial finds, without boots on the ground, then the shadow of a bush can look like a cave entrance, or if you don't have your "Elevation Exaggeration" properly set, then high cliffs can look like little hills or vice versa. There have been many people over the years who have showed up here with wild theories or screaming to the heavens that they have found the LDM because of the GE Pic. This is why we don't take those people seriously.

Mike

 

[somehiker]

HERE is one time I completely agree with the use of Google Earth! If you find something interesting on the ground, then find the spot on GE and see if anything stands out. GE is also VERY good for finding old trails. GE was how I first found the narrow trail Ely wrote about on the SouthEast Side of Bluff Springs Mountain. If, however, you use GE to make initial finds, without boots on the ground, then the shadow of a bush can look like a cave entrance, or if you don't have your "Elevation Exaggeration" properly set, then high cliffs can look like little hills or vice versa. There have been many people over the years who have showed up here with wild theories or screaming to the heavens that they have found the LDM because of the GE Pic. This is why we don't take those people seriously.

Mike

Well said Mike. There is no way I could have been assured the mine in that GE crop I posted wasn't just another outcropping of basalt surrounded by a hill of eroded tuffa, were I to rely on sat views and Wagoner's description alone. I dare say even Waltz or Wagoner, were we able to bring either one back from the dead and park them in front of a laptop, would have been able to find what they did without sacrificing a lot of boot leather as well. Does anybody think the Julia and Rhiney would have been able to find old Jake's mine, if only they could have looked for it on GE back then

 

[markmar]

@markmar,
Yes, I know you did and I have no problems with the 'necroposting' as such. What I do not like are the following:
1) It is the same place that you gave me the coords to all those years ago, I told you then that I _would_ check it out if the opportunity arose (which it didn't - we had other 'fish to fry')
2) You boasted to someone else (can't remember who) that you had given someone (ie _me_) the wrong coords but the right area to see what I could report back. That is NOT nice!! If you post coords, you post the correct ones (to the best of your ability) - or you don't give them out at all. You DO NOT send someone on a wild goose-chase - that is a most definite no-no!!

Because of this - I have never seriously tried to find it. If I happen to be in the vicinity, I might ...
My partners and I have but a short time each year, and seriously, Wagoner's is not all that high on the list - mainly because it is within the wilderness area (so no financial benefit, but maybe personal satisfaction).

Loke

The reason of that post in which I wrote how I have given wrong coords, was to stop you to go there. Also the coords I have given were very close to the location from the pic above. Not a wild goose chase but a sign you are realy interested. Call me excentrical but is the way I work.
If you would be realy interested, you would wrote me a pm in which you would ask your rights, like you did here in open forum. Now you have the picture of the site and is to your decision to prove me wrong.

I have to close this post because I must to put someone on Ignore option.

 

[markmar]

It's all just a misunderstanding. That when we say "he needs to put his boots on the ground", we must really mean "someone else's boots". I guess if he can substitute the "two black hills" reported by an actual witness, with a couple of boulders in a GE crop that he interprets as small outcroppings from the vantage point of his computer screen, that works for him.
I've had similar offers from other GE treasure hunters. My answer is always the same.....that if they really believe something's there, that they should get out to the mountains and see it themselves.

Always is a misunderstanding. I never asked from anybody else to do a research for me. If there is anyone, I ask to write it right now.
If you are not able or capable to understand what I write in my posts, just ask to explain it for you with another words.
You are judging me using your own experience on GE images and using your mindset , tactic which is totally wrong.

I believe you accuse my posts, just to keep people away from the sites I am writing of. Look to your research and leave me to write what I like, wrong or right. You and every one can't accuse someone without you can prove he's wrong.