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  1. #31
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,177
    4927 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    NECROPOSTING (necro= pertaining to death, posting= posting) is when you post on a thread that hasn't been active for several years. Typically, the OP (original poster) will not be an active poster any more, as well as other people (like Blindbowman). You would do better by just starting a new thread on the subject. Now........SIT!

    Mike
    Loke is active and my post was connected to what another poster wrote in this thread. Every time I write a post you are jumping in and you are searching for an argument.
    When I will need an advice, you will be the last in my list.
    I'm looking forward to meet you, now I believe I have a motivation.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  2. #32
    no
    Mar 2010
    Republic of Texas
    551
    1217 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    @markmar,
    Yes, I know you did and I have no problems with the 'necroposting' as such. What I do not like are the following:
    1) It is the same place that you gave me the coords to all those years ago, I told you then that I _would_ check it out if the opportunity arose (which it didn't - we had other 'fish to fry')
    2) You boasted to someone else (can't remember who) that you had given someone (ie _me_) the wrong coords but the right area to see what I could report back. That is NOT nice!! If you post coords, you post the correct ones (to the best of your ability) - or you don't give them out at all. You DO NOT send someone on a wild goose-chase - that is a most definite no-no!!

    Because of this - I have never seriously tried to find it. If I happen to be in the vicinity, I might ...
    My partners and I have but a short time each year, and seriously, Wagoner's is not all that high on the list - mainly because it is within the wilderness area (so no financial benefit, but maybe personal satisfaction).
    Last edited by Loke; Aug 14, 2019 at 02:29 PM.
    A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine

  3. #33
    ca
    May 2007
    3,881
    5209 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    @markmar,
    Yes, I know you did and I have no problems with the 'necroposting' as such. What I do not like are the following:
    1) It is the same place that you gave me the coords to all those years ago, I told you then that I _would_ check it out if the opportunity arose (which it didn't - we had other 'fish to fry')
    2) You boasted to someone else (can't remember who) that you had given someone (ie _me_) the wrong coords but the right area to see what I could report back. That is NOT nice!! If you post coords, you post the correct ones (to the best of your ability) - or you don't give them out at all. You DO NOT send someone on a wild goose-chase - that is a most definite no-no!!

    Because of this - I have never seriously tried to find it. If I happen to be in the vicinity, I might ...
    My partners and I have but a short time each year, and seriously, Wagoner's is not all that high on the list - mainly because it is within the wilderness area (so no financial benefit, but maybe personal satisfaction).
    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    Hey Loke

    Are you still interested in finding the Wagoner's outcrop or just in the story?
    I found the description of the Wagoner's site in TucsonHiker's post almost accurate, with the exception of the two black hills, which are not hills at all, but small rocky ground outcroppings.
    Because I know you will don't go where I would tell you to go, and maybe nobody else, I will post an aerial image of the mine's site, giving a big clue which is a trail that lies close to the Wagoner's mine.
    Find that piece of trail and you will find the mine which is in the yellow circle from the image/map.
    The decision to grab the opportunity or to leave it to go, is in your hands.

    Attachment 1741678
    It's all just a misunderstanding. That when we say "he needs to put his boots on the ground", we must really mean "someone else's boots". I guess if he can substitute the "two black hills" reported by an actual witness, with a couple of boulders in a GE crop that he interprets as small outcroppings from the vantage point of his computer screen, that works for him.
    I've had similar offers from other GE treasure hunters. My answer is always the same.....that if they really believe something's there, that they should get out to the mountains and see it themselves.
    azdave35, Oroblanco and Loke like this.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  4. #34
    ca
    May 2007
    3,881
    5209 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    A repost of the Wagoner description:

    " Wagoner said the gold ore was located four hours walking time north of the “Narrows” on the stage route. The ledge was located near two black hills. A sharp needle rock could be seen on the horizon to the north. Water could be found one mile to the east year around no matter how dry the season was. Indian markings can be found on the rocks just to the west of the site over some very rough and steep terrain. The old alternate route for the military trail between Fort McDowell and Camp Pinal lie about one mile to the north. Fred Mullins never found Wagoner’s golden ledge and it remains lost to this day."

    Anyone who has spent some of their own time to the south and eastward of Gold Canyon knows of a few pairings of "black hills". Many of which also have ancient petroglyphs visible on the black surfaces of their rock faces and boulders. If the day ever comes, when we can see those petros on Google Earth, I might change my mind about it's value in locating what Waltz or Wagoner themselves said about their finds.
    Last edited by somehiker; Aug 14, 2019 at 10:19 PM.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  5. #35
    ca
    May 2007
    3,881
    5209 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    One thing sat views are good for though., is showing others what something you have actually seen yourself might have looked like from outer space, had Wagoner been able to hitch a ride on a spaceship. If he could have, what he might have seen would have looked like this when he was done digging.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Old Queen Vallley Mine.jpg 
Views:	34 
Size:	366.1 KB 
ID:	1743218  
    Oroblanco, Loke and davin like this.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  6. #36
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

    Jan 2006
    Arizona Vagrant
    Modded SD2000 / White's Goldmaster 4B / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID
    6,527
    6606 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    Loke is active and my post was connected to what another poster wrote in this thread. Every time I write a post you are jumping in and you are searching for an argument.
    When I will need an advice, you will be the last in my list.
    I'm looking forward to meet you, now I believe I have a motivation.

    You are most welcome to attend the Lost Dutchman Rendezvous the first weekend of this November. I will be there, and highly welcome a face to face meeting. Otherwise, you are just another internet tough guy...................oh, and I will post/respond to anything I please.

    Also, most people on many treasure forums have known me for several years before you ever showed up. They all know my demeanor and my personality. Many of them know me personally, as I am not afraid for people to know my name and meet me in person. I give honest opinions based on facts and knowledge from many sources (including archives, libraries, old timers, and boots on the ground). I don't base all my hopes and dreams on little but grainy Google Earth Screenshots, and weak supposition.

    Best of luck in your hunting!

    Mike
    "You wouldn't like me when I'm mad, because I back up my rage with hard facts and logic!" - The Credible Hulk

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

  7. #37
    us
    Fortune Favors the BOLD, while Karma Favors the Wise!

    Jan 2006
    Arizona Vagrant
    Modded SD2000 / White's Goldmaster 4B / Fisher FX-3 / Fisher Gemini / Schiebel MIMID
    6,527
    6606 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by somehiker View Post
    One thing sat views are good for though., is showing others what something you have actually seen yourself might have looked like from outer space, had Wagoner been able to hitch a ride on a spaceship. If he could have, what he might have seen would have looked like this when he was done digging.
    HERE is one time I completely agree with the use of Google Earth! If you find something interesting on the ground, then find the spot on GE and see if anything stands out. GE is also VERY good for finding old trails. GE was how I first found the narrow trail Ely wrote about on the SouthEast Side of Bluff Springs Mountain. If, however, you use GE to make initial finds, without boots on the ground, then the shadow of a bush can look like a cave entrance, or if you don't have your "Elevation Exaggeration" properly set, then high cliffs can look like little hills or vice versa. There have been many people over the years who have showed up here with wild theories or screaming to the heavens that they have found the LDM because of the GE Pic. This is why we don't take those people seriously.

    Mike
    somehiker, cyzak, Riverbum and 2 others like this.
    "You wouldn't like me when I'm mad, because I back up my rage with hard facts and logic!" - The Credible Hulk

    ............... ALWAYS REMEMBER: When you make a typo, the errorists win...................Aloha Snackbar!

  8. #38
    ca
    May 2007
    3,881
    5209 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by gollum View Post
    HERE is one time I completely agree with the use of Google Earth! If you find something interesting on the ground, then find the spot on GE and see if anything stands out. GE is also VERY good for finding old trails. GE was how I first found the narrow trail Ely wrote about on the SouthEast Side of Bluff Springs Mountain. If, however, you use GE to make initial finds, without boots on the ground, then the shadow of a bush can look like a cave entrance, or if you don't have your "Elevation Exaggeration" properly set, then high cliffs can look like little hills or vice versa. There have been many people over the years who have showed up here with wild theories or screaming to the heavens that they have found the LDM because of the GE Pic. This is why we don't take those people seriously.

    Mike
    Well said Mike. There is no way I could have been assured the mine in that GE crop I posted wasn't just another outcropping of basalt surrounded by a hill of eroded tuffa, were I to rely on sat views and Wagoner's description alone. I dare say even Waltz or Wagoner, were we able to bring either one back from the dead and park them in front of a laptop, would have been able to find what they did without sacrificing a lot of boot leather as well. Does anybody think the Julia and Rhiney would have been able to find old Jake's mine, if only they could have looked for it on GE back then
    Last edited by somehiker; Aug 15, 2019 at 11:11 AM.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  9. #39
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,177
    4927 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Loke View Post
    @markmar,
    Yes, I know you did and I have no problems with the 'necroposting' as such. What I do not like are the following:
    1) It is the same place that you gave me the coords to all those years ago, I told you then that I _would_ check it out if the opportunity arose (which it didn't - we had other 'fish to fry')
    2) You boasted to someone else (can't remember who) that you had given someone (ie _me_) the wrong coords but the right area to see what I could report back. That is NOT nice!! If you post coords, you post the correct ones (to the best of your ability) - or you don't give them out at all. You DO NOT send someone on a wild goose-chase - that is a most definite no-no!!

    Because of this - I have never seriously tried to find it. If I happen to be in the vicinity, I might ...
    My partners and I have but a short time each year, and seriously, Wagoner's is not all that high on the list - mainly because it is within the wilderness area (so no financial benefit, but maybe personal satisfaction).
    Loke

    The reason of that post in which I wrote how I have given wrong coords, was to stop you to go there. Also the coords I have given were very close to the location from the pic above. Not a wild goose chase but a sign you are realy interested. Call me excentrical but is the way I work.
    If you would be realy interested, you would wrote me a pm in which you would ask your rights, like you did here in open forum. Now you have the picture of the site and is to your decision to prove me wrong.

    I have to close this post because I must to put someone on Ignore option.
    Last edited by markmar; Aug 17, 2019 at 08:17 AM.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  10. #40
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,177
    4927 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by somehiker View Post
    It's all just a misunderstanding. That when we say "he needs to put his boots on the ground", we must really mean "someone else's boots". I guess if he can substitute the "two black hills" reported by an actual witness, with a couple of boulders in a GE crop that he interprets as small outcroppings from the vantage point of his computer screen, that works for him.
    I've had similar offers from other GE treasure hunters. My answer is always the same.....that if they really believe something's there, that they should get out to the mountains and see it themselves.
    Always is a misunderstanding. I never asked from anybody else to do a research for me. If there is anyone, I ask to write it right now.
    If you are not able or capable to understand what I write in my posts, just ask to explain it for you with another words.
    You are judging me using your own experience on GE images and using your mindset , tactic which is totally wrong.

    I believe you accuse my posts, just to keep people away from the sites I am writing of. Look to your research and leave me to write what I like, wrong or right. You and every one can't accuse someone without you can prove he's wrong.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  11. #41
    ca
    May 2007
    3,881
    5209 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    Always is a misunderstanding. I never asked from anybody else to do a research for me. If there is anyone, I ask to write it right now.
    If you are not able or capable to understand what I write in my posts, just ask to explain it for you with another words.
    You are judging me using your own experience on GE images and using your mindset , tactic which is totally wrong.

    I believe you accuse my posts, just to keep people away from the sites I am writing of. Look to your research and leave me to write what I like, wrong or right. You and every one can't accuse someone without you can prove he's wrong.
    I'll leave it up to Loke to clear up the question as to whether or not you asked him to check out the place for which you gave him co-ordinates. And your belief that I criticize your posts because I want to keep anyone away is wrong. Frankly, as I have previously said to you in a private conversation, I have no interest in what you think you have found via GE, and that we are obviously far apart in both location and theory. It's not our job to prove you wrong. Quite frankly, it's all on you to prove you are right, using whatever you can find and personally photograph on your sites as evidence. That will, as I believe I and others have made very clear, take much more than crops from GE or other people's photos. Otherwise you are just playing video games.
    Hell,you ain't never too old to look!

  12. #42
    gr
    Oct 2012
    3,177
    4927 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by somehiker View Post
    I'll leave it up to Loke to clear up the question as to whether or not you asked him to check out the place for which you gave him co-ordinates. And your belief that I criticize your posts because I want to keep anyone away is wrong. Frankly, as I have previously said to you in a private conversation, I have no interest in what you think you have found via GE, and that we are obviously far apart in both location and theory. It's not our job to prove you wrong. Quite frankly, it's all on you to prove you are right, using whatever you can find and personally photograph on your sites as evidence. That will, as I believe I and others have made very clear, take much more than crops from GE or other people's photos. Otherwise you are just playing video games.
    You wrote is not your ( plural, like you are a selected leader ) job to prove me wrong and this is what someone else can deduce as you can't.
    Here in this forum and out there, are people who know what they are talking about, and they are not in this forum just for fishing info.
    Of course many are claiming how they are coming to the Superstitions just to see different species of butterflies or to see different ancient dwellings, and they are doing that for over twenty years. Oh yes, of course, I believe it.
    Marius

    If your true to your heart, you will never go wrong. The truth is the truth, no matter how you look at it, and in every treasure story and legend there is a grain of truth. It's up to your spirit and heart to know the difference. NP





  13. #43
    no
    Mar 2010
    Republic of Texas
    551
    1217 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by markmar View Post
    Loke

    The reason of that post in which I wrote how I have given wrong coords, was to stop you to go there. Also the coords I have given were very close to the location from the pic above. Not a wild goose chase but a sign you are realy interested. Call me excentrical but is the way I work.
    If you would be realy interested, you would wrote me a pm in which you would ask your rights, like you did here in open forum. Now you have the picture of the site and is to your decision to prove me wrong.

    I have to close this post because I must to put someone on Ignore option.
    You are going about it a completely wrong way! If you want someone (a bit nearer than you) to check out an area for you - just say so. Do not pretend to know where it is and tempt somebody else into the area - you might send them into serious trouble. Because of your somewhat 'devious' attempt - you will not score high in my regard. As I previously stated - if I happen to be in that particular area, I _might_ have a look at it (_might_ being the operative word). As for 'rights', you are barking up the wrong tree and you have just convinced me to never look for it where you indicate. What friggin' rights are you talking about? The honour of knowing where it is? Who the heck cares? It IS in the wilderness area - so no dice!
    Oroblanco likes this.
    A furore Normannorum libera nos, Domine

  14. #44

    May 2019
    151
    142 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by somehiker View Post
    Well said Mike. There is no way I could have been assured the mine in that GE crop I posted wasn't just another outcropping of basalt surrounded by a hill of eroded tuffa, were I to rely on sat views and Wagoner's description alone. I dare say even Waltz or Wagoner, were we able to bring either one back from the dead and park them in front of a laptop, would have been able to find what they did without sacrificing a lot of boot leather as well. Does anybody think the Julia and Rhiney would have been able to find old Jake's mine, if only they could have looked for it on GE back then
    We have dozens of significant entities, at our site, most of which you cannot see on GE. The couple things you can kinda see are inconclusive unless you have boots on the ground, and even then they look different in person. We did not discover what we have with GE, it can kind of give you a lay of the land, but nobody can confirm a find, of any manor with just Google Earth. GE is a tool, a pair of binoculars to where you think you may go, but you need live eyes close up on the ground and anyone who says otherwise has never been out there, and should not try to make a case to the contrary. If there was ever a place for armchair QBs, this ain't one of um. Jeff.
    alan m and somehiker like this.

 

 
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