Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

the diagram shows a red hill, which is full of iron just like at glastonbury tor, and there’s the burns well, which is a well with water with iron in it just like at glastonbury tor, and there’s the amethyst hole where chuck found the german holy stones hid there by burns, which means the german grail was hid at the burns ranch just like the christian grail was hid at glastonbury tor. if mann is right about the geometric design of two interlocking circles with the bisecting bar matching land formations then we should find this at the burns ranch just as it is at glastonbury tor.

well now, i took me a trip out to the burns ranch to see what i could see now that i know what i was looking for --- two interlocking circles with bisecting bar. well, guess what i found! i know i’m not the brightest but i’m not so stupid i can’t see a motive.

quoting myself.

think about this. if phil and rick were to get the deity stone on behalf of the superstition museum, then the museum could turn around and sell the deity stone to some group in germany, for who knows how much, then the museum would have money for improvements and additions, right! so don't be saying there's no motive because there sure the crap is.

 

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[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

i would suggest everybody check out the burns ranch and the holy stones mining claim for themselves and not take other people's word for anything. JOE MAY BE RIGHT ABOUT RICK GWYNNE BEING A SCAM ARTIST! AND HOLY STONES INC. TOO!

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

look at this view. what a back yard that'd be!

 

[Springfield]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

The well-known symbol is the 'vesica piscis', and has many esoteric, christian and new-age connotations. The diagram of the design on inside of the ring is not a 'vesica piscis' symbol because the center of the interlocking circles must both lie on the circumference of the opposing circle, which is not the case in your diagram.

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

The well-known symbol is the 'vesica piscis', and has many esoteric, christian and new-age connotations. The diagram of the design on inside of the ring is not a 'vesica piscis' symbol because the center of the interlocking circles must both lie on the circumference of the opposing circle, which is not the case in your diagram.

what springfiels is pointing out is there are two completely different grail quests. one is a christian grail quest. the other is a german grail quest. the 'vesica piscis' is a symbol of a christian grail quest. the 'vesica piscis" is NOT a symbol of a german grail quest. mann's uncle's ring design was DELIBERATELY made so that the center of each circle did NOT lay on the circumference of the other circle. the design in mann's uncle's ring was DELIBERATELY meant to symbolize a GERMAN grail quest. this is a perfect example of why you have to know what your looking for. do not depend on other people to see for you. you have to know what your looking for and see for yourself. if you want to know what's at the burns ranch do NOT depend on others to tell you or to see for you. check out the burns ranch for yourself and remember your NOT looking for symbols of a christian grail quest. your looking for symbols of a german grail quest. if you see a 'vesica piscis' then your seeing the WRONG thing!

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I haven't been on here in months, but I always read about the LDM when I had the opportunity. I must say this whole thing is a GREAT READ!!!

I think from things of the past, there are many theories. One has to think back further than our great great great great grand parents times, etc, that many religions etc came into play as well as everything to with the universe, mathematics, physics, etc.

As DaringEagle mentioned one has to keep an open mind. You have to think outside the box.

Daring Eagle if you are still around, I just want to say thanks for the info and input you gave here, and thanks for serving and I thank the Air Force for giving me free rides in their aircraft!

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

ha why your at it can you think the US navy for working me and my two friends till we droped at great lakes .. i was the lucky one ,i am the only one that live threw it ...

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Home of the Holy Ghost Claims by, Dave:

Joe Ribaudo

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

i want you to know something about a man named brad steiger

quoting steiger’s website.

Television appearances include Nightline with Ted Koppel, ABC Evening News with Peter Jennings, NBC Evening News with Tom Brokaw, This Week [with David Brinkley, Sam Donaldson, and Cokie Roberts] The Mike Douglas Show, The David Suskind Show, The Joan Rivers Show, Entertainment Tonight, Haunted Hollywood [for HBO], Inside Edition, The Unexplained [A&E], Giants: The Myth and the Mystery [The Learning Channel]. Fangs vs. Fiction [A&E]. The television series Could It Be a Miracle? features Brad and Sherry in 22 episodes.

Brad Steiger is the author/coauthor of 168 books with over 17 million copies in print. He has published articles and books on inspiration, phenomenal and the paranormal, spirituality, UFO research, prehistory, and true crime, and has done several biographies.

Steiger's first published articles on the unexplained appeared in 1956, and he has now written more than 2,000 articles with paranormal themes. From 1970-'73, his weekly newspaper column, The Strange World of Brad Steiger, was carried domestically in over 80 newspapers and overseas from Bombay to Tokyo.

end quoting.

steiger did an article on mogens kiehn. The very same mogens keihn i saw having secretive talks with chuck kenworthy’s son, and beryl nicholas at the grand hotel back in the early 1980s, just before the article came out about chuck’s solution to the peralta stones.

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

some more

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

now you tell me, what was this guy mogens keihn doing in secretive talks with chuck kenworthy’s son and beryl nicholas at the grand hotel? it's always troubled me. what’s the connection. well, from D.E. posting here i now see the connecting dots as she calls them. it all has to do with germany, german legend, german holy stones, and nazis who were looking for them, and neo nazis who are looking for them now. the dutchman was a german from southern germany, and knew the german legend of the holy stones, and that’s why according to anne rue he wanted the squaw to take him to the thunder grounds as high spiritualist supposedly can hear thundering voices from the holy stones.

mogens could have learned abot the german holy stones while he was in germany, or from those nazi scientists he worked with on the secret weapons project with emory taylor. since mogens hated nazis, and was a nazi hunter, there’s no way he would allow nazis or neo nazis to get their hands on the holy stones. that’s why mogens was in secretive talks with kenworthy’s son and beryl nicholas at the grand hotel. well that's how i figure it. if there was any of these holy stones at kenworthy’s treasure/mine site mogens wanted to secret them away. remember beryl was a clerk for project blue book.

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

NICE picture cactusjumper. did you get any of the burns well, and the hole where the holy stones were found, and rick gwynne's and emory taylor's dig site for holy stones inc -- the one that was dug according to german grail quest symbol? if you did, then why not post them.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

BB posted--> ha why your at it can you think the US navy for working me and my two friends till we droped at great lakes .. i was the lucky one , --i am the only one that live threw it ... --

******************
Lousy navigation

Don Jose deLa Mancha
"I exist to Live, not live to exist"

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

BB posted--> ha why your at it can you think the US navy for working me and my two friends till we droped at great lakes .. i was the lucky one , --i am the only one that live threw it ... --

******************
Lousy navigation

Don Jose deLa Mancha
"I exist to Live, not live to exist"

bootcamp at great lake navy train center .. one i will not forget !

how you doing RD ..

post a layout of your area and the chruch steps vs north and i will post where your frist site should have been ..

 

[hoops]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

The German Grail, also called the holy stones has always been a part of the legend of the Dutchman Jacob Waltz and his lost mine called the LDM. Almost no one knew this because we Americans do not know the German Grail legend, but the Dutchman Jacob Waltz knew it. A young boy in America who aspires to be a treasure hunter will learn the local legends in the area he grows up, such as growing up in Apache Junction and learning the Dutchman legend. This is not unique to America. It applies world wide that kids interested in treasure hunting will learn the local legends in the area they grow up. This applies to the Dutchman Jacob Waltz. He aspired to be a treasure hunter, and grew up in southern German, and learned the local legends. One of which was the German Grail legend of the holy stones.

Eventually the Dutchman Jacob Waltz became a man and emigrated to America. In the Wickenburg area he found and staked at least three gold claims. While there he heard the stories of the thunder ground in the Superstition mountains. This would have struck a chord with him because the German holy stones are said to thunder with the voices of the high spirits for those who can hear. Meaning for a high spiritualist. It’s because of the German Grail legend he know from his youth that he asked a squaw to take him to the thunder grounds in the Superstitions.

At the thunder grounds the squaw showed the Dutchman Jacob Waltz the thundering stones, and a gold vain vein or cache. These particular thundering stones would have been the black/purple/white stones called the secondary holy stones. They are holy stones but only because at one time they were next to the true holy stone. They became secondary holy stones just like a piece of iron becomes a magnet by being next to a real magnet.

The Dutchman Jacob Waltz would have taken a few of these black/purple/white holy stones and all the gold he could pack on his mule. At his age he was probably caching just like all the older guys did. He’s known to have three caches in the Weaver’s Needle area. At any rate at least one of the black/purple/white holy stones made it into the cache he had at his home. When the flood happened, and his home caved in, and he was rescued and taken to Julia Thomas, he had his home cache brought to him at Julie’s place.

Julia was part German. Her father was from southern Germany. The same region the Dutchman Jacob Waltz was from. He and Julie spoke the same dialect of German. She may even have known about the German Grail from her father. But even if she didn’t, Jacob could have told her. There would be no reason for him to give the black/purple/white holy stone from his home cache to anyone other than a German, especially one with blood ties to southern Germany. True, Julia spent some time looking for the mine. But she soon gave this up and did something else.

Part of the German Grail legend of the holy stones is that the voices of high spirits can be heard by high spiritualist. It is well documented in the Arizona Republic newspaper, and Mr. Glover’s book that Julie claimed to hear voices and have visions, and she started a cult religion. All of this shortly after the Dutchman’s death. This is undoubtedly due to the black/purple/white holy stone she received from the Dutchman Jacob Waltz. Julia remarries and moves to Wickenburg where she and her husband continue the cult religion called the American Israelites.

First her husband dies and later she dies. The cult religion disbands. This is where Anne C. Rues great grand dad inters the story. He had been in the Wickenburg are looking for gold while Julia was alive, but never meets her or her cult. It is on his second stay in Wickenburg that he meets what he called a crazy cult woman. She gets him to buy the whispering rings. Two rings. Each with a secret compartment. One has black basalt and the other has amethyst. One ring belonged to Julia and the other to her husband. When the rings are brought together the cult woman could her voices whispering. While Rue’s great granddad couldn’t hear the voices, he did pay $5 dollars for them, and spent the night sowing his oats with the cult woman. When he awoke in the morning the cult woman and the whispering rings were gone.

The cult woman goes to California. In LA she restarts the cult religion. This time called the New American Israelites. The whispering rings are enshrined there as their holy of holies. Their holy document is the written history, told by the cult woman, of how the Dutchman Jacob Waltz found the black/purple/white holy stones, and gave it to Julia, and she started the religion, and all the events that transpired. Remember. The cult woman spent the night having sex (called sowing oats) with Anne Rue’s grant granddad, and she kept bring the whispering rings together, and going into bug eyed cult trances. Even though Rue’s great granddad didn’t know it, he was involved in a sex ritual using the black/purple/white holy stone for the cult woman to commune with the high spirits. It was probably then that the cult woman received instructions to take the holy stones to California an restart the cult religion.

Soon another black woman (both Julia and the cult woman were black) rises to prominence in the cult religion. Celeste Jones can hear the voices whispering when the rings are brought together. She is instructed to find the Dutchman Jacob Waltz’s mine or caches so as to get more black/purple/white holy stones and possibility find the true German Grail, the holy stone which was used to turn the black/purple/white into holy stones. The story of Celeste hearing voices, and communing with spirits is told by one of her employees by the name of Robert Sikorsky in his book Fool’s Gold. The focus of her search was the Weaver’s Needle area and the three caches the Dutchman hid there. Bob Ward enters the picture because he claims to have been hired by Celeste to follow her and Louis Rousset as they hid two bags of something not disclosed to him.

Chuck Crawford goes on two Bob Ward expeditions. Crawford’s biographer Emory Taylor believes Crawford discovered something on the second expedition but Crawford didn’t tell Ward. Instead Crawford checks out the discover at a later date on his own. He them claims he’s found the LDM. Later, he does allow Ward to become involved in the operation. Crawford discovers an ancient trail going from the Burns ranch to La barge canyon. One day he take this trail but doesn’t have enough water. He dehydrates. He sees what he calls an angle. This angle guides him to a pool of water with a trout swimming in it. Crawford drinks the water and fills his canteens. But he hears voices and unearths a black or black and purple bar. It’s from this bar, the true German holy stone, that was used to make the black/purple/white stones into holy stones. Crawford takes this bar out to his Deity mining claim and buries it there.

I believe Crawford heard the voices for the first time while on the second Ward expedition. I believe the expedition happened to go across a section of the ancient trail. While at that section of the ancient trail the voice introduced itself to Crawford as the Deity, and offered to guide him to a place of communion. It was later without Ward that Crawford returned to this section and dehydrated, saw the angle, and found the bar. It was after this that Crawford staked his claims in La barge, calling one the Deity #2, and another Deity #2. The other five claims were named after relatives. The very thing that befell Julia Thomas, hearing voices and seeing visions about religion, and the very thing that befell Celeste Jones, hearing voices and seeing visions about religion, now befalls Crawford. He even makes a one hour and 45 minute video tape recording about it.

Jacob Waltz, the squaw, Julia Thomas, the cult woman, Celeste Jones, Bob Ward, Chuck Crawford. All of these people and the events they were involved in are part of the legend of the legend of the Dutchman’s lost gold mine. All along, from the very beginning, the legend of the German Grail has been hidden within the legend of the Dutchman’s lost gold mine. You just had to know what you were looking for in order to see it. The reason the Dutchman Jacob Waltz knew what to look for is because he grew up aspiring to be a treasure hunter and knew the local legends where he grew up, knew the legends of southern Germany, knew the legend of the German Grail, knew the legend of the German holy stones.

As to motive. Ipcress is concerned with. Jacob Waltz motive was to find the legend of his youth. Julia Thomas’s motive was religious. Celeste Jones’ motive was religious. Bob Ward’s motive was probably pure profit. Chuck Crawford’s motive was profit and religious.

Now don’t be forgetting Walter Gassler who was looking for the LDM, and Holy Stones Inc who generated the Gassler report and hired Treewood, who found some gold and platinum. And don’t forget Phil Reinhardt’s and Rick Gwynne’s treasure box expedition. These are three more examples of the German Grail legend hiding in the legend of the Dutchman’s lost mine. The motive of Emory Taylor and Holy Stones Inc is clear. It’s stated in the articles of incorporation, and obviously includes a sale of at least some of the holy stones to German Masonic and Neo Nazi groups. As to the motive of Reinhardt and Gwynne. I think Ipcress has stated it best.

“think about this. if phil and rick were to get the deity stone on behalf of the superstition museum, then the museum could turn around and sell the deity stone to some group in germany, for who knows how much, then the museum would have money for improvements and additions, right! so don't be saying there's no motive because there sure the crap is.”

Anyone who’s been reading these post and reading the info linked to by these post will know I in fact left out the IMPORTANT connection of the German Grail legend with the legend of the Dutchman’s lost mine. If someone would like to state it then please do. Otherwise I will address it in my next post … bis dahin (it’s German, you should translate it).

 

[hoops]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

Using the German Grail quest symbol supplied by ipcress, the Burns well, and the cave where the black/purple/white holy stones were found by Crawford, you can easily find the site where HSI (Rick Gwynne, and Emory Taylor) dug on the Holy Stones mining claim. I wonder what, if anything, they found.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I think they got tired......

Pictures by: Dave

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

I am a bit surprised that this bit of propaganda has gone silent.

I have been told, by a trusted source, that "the Holy Stones are nothing more than banded amethyst found in the Mineral Mountains, more than likely the Raymert Mine." It's a good story though.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

cactusjumper

here's some instructions for dave to get picture of the right spot -- where hsi dug.

1.

starting at the burns well. measure from center of well along the base of the out cropping to your right (away from superstition mountain) until your directly below the hole where the holy stones were found. write down this measurement as measurement #1.

2.

measure up from the base of the rock out cropping to the center of the hole where the holy stones were found. write down this measurement as measurement #2.

3.

go back to the burns well. measure from the center of the well along the base of the rock out cropping to your left (toward superstition mountain) you’re the same distance as you were for measurement #1.

4.

measure away from the rock out cropping until you’re the same distance as measurement #2.

your now at the spot where holy stones inc did their dig.

the key to this is after measurement #1 you had to change directions and measure perpendicular to measurement #1 in order to get measurement #2. you did the same thing on the opposite end. after measurement #3 you had to change directions and measure perpendicular to measurement #3 in order to get measurement #4. this is important because the two interlocking circles represent the spiritual world and the material world, and the bisecting bar represents balance. the two world (spiritual and material) are balanced. the saying “as above (in the spiritual world) so below (in the material world). the fact that the measurements were done in the same way represents the balance.

the holy stones were found at one end of the bisecting or balance bar on the spiritual side. i wonder what it was holy stones inc found on the other end of the balance bar on the material side?

 

[ipcress]

Re: Dutchman & government conspiracy Request

i know the part hoops left for later. it’s given in book 2 of the crawford biography. one page 42.

On the back of this picture Mr. Barnett wrote: “8-29-76 taken by Robert G. Barnett Casi I main tunnel right wing.”