Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

[Loke]

@cubfan
*rofl*

Well the guy has just rewritten history ...
To quote from the wikipedia:

Theory of relativity and E = mc2
Main article: History of special relativity

Einstein's "Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper" ("On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies") was received on 30 June 1905 and published 26 September of that same year. It reconciles Maxwell's equations for electricity and magnetism with the laws of mechanics, by introducing major changes to mechanics close to the speed of light. This later became known as Einstein's special theory of relativity.

Consequences of this include the time-space frame of a moving body slowing down and contracting (in the direction of motion) relative to the frame of the observer. This paper also argued that the idea of a luminiferous aether – one of the leading theoretical entities in physics at the time – was superfluous.[62]

In his paper on mass–energy equivalence Einstein produced E = mc2 from his special relativity equations.[63] Einstein's 1905 work on relativity remained controversial for many years, but was accepted by leading physicists, starting with Max Planck.

and ya know what - I don't see our not-so-famous self-proclaimed scientist amongst the doubters or opponents ... nor about any replacement ...

 

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[EE THr]

I am curious again, why? After all the blockages are a society, or trained, deliberately or otherwise, blockage, and as such can be bypassed.

If you study the exact makeup of those blockages, and how they got there, you will find that they were created by something so similar to hypnosis, that it can be said to be essentially the same. The use of hypnosis merely solidifies them in place, and plants even more of them.

Hypnosis can sometimes cause effects which appear to be beneficial. Eventually the hypnosis causes unexpected and unstable behavior, due to hypnotic commands of both types reacting with the person's environment. This causes the person to make reactive decisions and actions, based on those recorded commands. However, the recorded commands are not analytical in nature, and will be anywhere from slightly to extremely inappropriate to the present situation.

As one example, drug addicts, in a state of lowered consciousness when on drugs, will make obviously poor decisions. But after a long term drug addiction, even when not on drugs, they will make decisions in life which are not in their own best interests. This is due to the hypnotic state which is induced by those types of drugs, gives the results that while on drugs, their experiences, especially certain types of events which are more "impressive," are taken has somewhat mild hypnotic commands. Then the repetition many similar experiences, including speech and music, add more strength to the command value of those particular types of stimulus. That's why you can't reason with a junkie. They are following commands which are not related to the present situation, so their responses just don't make sense, and it's nearly impossible to tell them otherwise.

These things which are sometimes referred to as "mental blocks," can also do more than block a person's successful thoughts and actions. They can cause people to initiate improper actions, which are detrimental to them.

The correct way to solve this problem is to simply neutralize those hidden "commands," or in other words, get rid of them. When their command value no longer exists, the person will naturally analyse what is going on, and take whatever action (or non-action) is optimum. People tend to become happier in life, and appreciate others appropriately, and so forth.

So, that's why hypnosis will always backfire on you. It's like treating a broken leg, by breaking the other leg.

I'm sure, in some way, all this could be applied to treasure hunting. 8)

 

[Springfield]

I am curious again, why? After all the blockages are a society, or trained, deliberately or otherwise, blockage, and as such can be bypassed.

If you study the exact makeup of those blockages, and how they got there, you will find that they were created by something so similar to hypnosis, that it can be said to be essentially the same. The use of hypnosis merely solidifies them in place, and plants even more of them.

Hypnosis can sometimes cause effects which appear to be beneficial. Eventually the hypnosis causes unexpected and unstable behavior, due to hypnotic commands of both types reacting with the person's environment. This causes the person to make reactive decisions and actions, based on those recorded commands. However, the recorded commands are not analytical in nature, and will be anywhere from slightly to extremely inappropriate to the present situation.

As one example, drug addicts, in a state of lowered consciousness when on drugs, will make obviously poor decisions. But after a long term drug addiction, even when not on drugs, they will make decisions in life which are not in their own best interests. This is due to the hypnotic state which is induced by those types of drugs, gives the results that while on drugs, their experiences, especially certain types of events which are more "impressive," are taken has somewhat mild hypnotic commands. Then the repetition many similar experiences, including speech and music, add more strength to the command value of those particular types of stimulus. That's why you can't reason with a junkie. They are following commands which are not related to the present situation, so their responses just don't make sense, and it's nearly impossible to tell them otherwise.

These things which are sometimes referred to as "mental blocks," can also do more than block a person's successful thoughts and actions. They can cause people to initiate improper actions, which are detrimental to them.

The correct way to solve this problem is to simply neutralize those hidden "commands," or in other words, get rid of them. When their command value no longer exists, the person will naturally analyse what is going on, and take whatever action (or non-action) is optimum. People tend to become happier in life, and appreciate others appropriately, and so forth.

So, that's why hypnosis will always backfire on you. It's like treating a broken leg, by breaking the other leg.

I'm sure, in some way, all this could be applied to treasure hunting.

This speech is eerily familiar to one I heard recently from an old buddy of mine who, years ago, was a happy, spontaneous, interesting and achieving guy with many friends, a loving family and a contracting business he relished. Well, he was a pot smoker then and suddenly found himself feeling guilty about it and decided to 'fix himself'. Today, he's a PhD psychologist and the head of a substance abuse program at a large medical facility in the Midwest. He's single, miserable, his kids won't speak to him, he's unhealthy, paranoid and borderline suicidal. He speaks nothing but canned double-talk now. His 'fix' must be like that broken leg you mentioned.

Hypnosis. In 1980, I was involved directly with a subject who was quite willing, but unable to provide certain information pertaining to an experience he had 45 years previously, when he was a young man. He could remember generalities and some details about the day in question, but much of the information that could have been used to flesh out the experience was lacking. He agreed to allow a professional to hypnotize him in order to try to recall more. The audio tapes of the session are startling - it's like he was reliving the entire day. He repeated his side of conversations with others verbatim. He described routes he traveled in a vehicle and on foot. He remembered what he purchased at a roadside store. He remembered road signs with towns, mileages and directional arrows on them. He remembered a cattle brand on a horse. He remembered a rancher's name where he stopped to talk. He could not remember anything that he did not take notice of that day, but if he did take notice, he could recall it. After the session, he was shocked and very happy about recalling some of the things he had forgotten. His memories were valid - we were able to verify much of it quite easily and quickly.

Bottom line: While hypnosis may have 'backfired' on you, that's a generalization that will be challenged by many. It is a tool that can help. Remember, the memories have to exist before they can be retrieved. You can't retrieve an experience that did not occur.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Excellent post springfield *****

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bb, while an ingenious post, there are too many variables, inconsistencies, and mislabeling to be taken seriously at this point. Have you ever posted it to a certified theoretical physicist for even a casual reading?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

Bb, while an ingenious post, there are too many variables, inconsistencies, and mislabeling to be taken seriously at this point. Have you ever posted it to a certified theoretical physicist for even a casual reading?

Don Jose de La Mancha

From Loke's post, I'm assuming BB is back on the E=mc2 wagon again.

I'm pretty sure he took us down this road a couple years or so ago with his "correction" of Einstein's work. It wouldn't take much work at all on his part to get input from serious folks in the physics/mathematics community, although he'd need someone to proofread/edit his spelling, grammar, sentence structure, etc... enough for people to take it at all seriously.

The fact that he's advancing this theory on a Treasure Hunting forum speaks for itself imho.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentlemen: Regarding hypnosis, I see many popular misconceptions about it posted. Since I used it extensively in the para normal experiments over a 10 year period, I believe that I can add a few points from the results. While in premed one of the professors took an interest in me and suggested that I study Hypnotism. He flatly stated that 'it was destined to be the strong arm of future medicine', so I studied the armfuls of books that he gave me.

One of the first things that I learned and applied was self hypnosis and it's ability to vastly increase the available resources and abilities of the human. Naturally I learned pain control first, being a cowardly and delicate type, 'when I hurt I hurt' sigh.

It paid off when a 200 lb iron counter weight dropped a foot and ended up on top of my big toe. The bone in the toe was crushed in about 20 ways. My first reaction was a feeling of sickness, then the Hypnotic response set in and there was no pain. That evening I had a special appt with our family doctor to examine it. when I walked into his office, perfectly normall, he said, "Obviously you have no broken toe or you could never have walked in here with out a mechanical aid".

However, he promptly retracted his hasty diagnosis when he felt the toe, it was similar to feeling a cloth bag full of marbles. ugh' He was fascinated, and asked me how I could walk in that condition, so I explained to him the self hypnosis factor. He said that I had to teach him this technique, but some how he never found the time to follow it up.

I have since taught this to various people, but always with the built in requirement to seek medical aid within 24 hrs or it would no longer have any effect, the reason is quite obvious.

K, so I had experimented with it fairly extensively when I incorporated it into the para normal studies. I primarily used it to bring out latent abilities quite successfully. I quickly found out that it does not give you something that you do not have originally but it can act as a short cut to bring them out.

However here is not the place to discuss them, but to answer some parts of recent posts.

A) The only person that cannot be hypnotised is a complete idiot, he cannot concentrate well enough, since in essence you are doing it yourself, not the hypnotist, he is generally merely suggesting and guiding you.

B) Hypnotism cannot give you something that you do not already have, but since so far we haven't been able to define them, it can be 'the sky is the limit. Needless to say, you can control every function of your body, especially those considered outside of normal control such as heart rhythm, beat, blood pressure, pain control increased mind ability, memories, and on.

C) About memories, once I gave a small group a mass suggestion that they were going to take a trip to the Andes. They were going to see the ceremony dedicated to the rising sun. when they were conditioned I played a record of Yma Sumac singing her hym to the Sun God.



After, they all had similar versions of their experience, yet were uniquely different. One woman said "I wonder why she doesn't clean her toenails"?

Most retained their memories for years after wards, so the experience factor is controlled by your brain, and not necessarily by a physical (?) experience. This goes for experiences under Pot, as well as other hallucinogenics

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Springfield]

BB, you are constantly telling people on the site about how big a genius you are, and treating them with disdain and beneath you....

Furness, he's merely gaming those who read his posts.

 

[EE THr]

This speech is eerily familiar to one I heard recently....

Hypnosis. In 1980, I was involved directly with a subject who was quite willing, but unable to provide certain information pertaining to an experience he had 45 years previously....

Bottom line: While hypnosis may have 'backfired' on you....

Your calling my reply to RDT a "speech," is merely a covert insult. Insults are thrown when no actual data exists, in an attempt to invalidate the messenger. Actually, Psychology is all in favor hypnosis, regardless of the detrimental effects. They are also, as you may have noticed, big on drugs---and also regardless of some serious side effects.

Why did you assume that I was somehow promoting Psychology, of all things?

Your hypnotism anecdote is typical of my reference to sometimes "appearing to be beneficial." The point is that it can be done better, using techniques other than hypnosis, and without the undesirable effects.

Your "may have backfired on you" statement is an attempt to evoke an emotional response as a means of diversion. When a person must make an assumption, in order to make an ad hominem attack, it's because he knows that he doesn't have any actual personal facts to use, much less, as a rebuttal to the actual subject matter. In other words, a double cheap shot.

RDT asked me a question, and I answered it. What is your stake in this?

 

[Springfield]

... RDT asked me a question, and I answered it. What is your stake in this?

EE, earlier: "So, that's why hypnosis will always backfire on you"

To correct you.

 

[EE THr]

... RDT asked me a question, and I answered it. What is your stake in this?

EE, earlier: "So, that's why hypnosis will always backfire on you"

To correct you.

I take it you mean that you were giving an example of hypnosis not backfiring?

If that's what you meant, then it's not an example of what I meant. I had already said that sometimes it appears to be beneficial. I had already explained that problems arise later. These problems might be slight, and not very noticeable, or they might be severe. But they are there. The intensity of the symptoms depend on the extent of the hypnosis, the number of sessions, and the types and exact wording of the commands.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

EE, relax my friend. anything may back fire on you, including religion. Springfield is not the type to just insult people.

Now, back to what I was trying to bring out about memories of past events, real or imagined. These can be established by having an 'imagined' experience, while under the influence of any of the hallucinogenics, and from then on, would be thought of as a genuine experience by the super conscience.

Under the influence, One can believe that they had a genuine experience in say remote viewing, talks with past persons, or even experience an imagined regression which then becomes established in the memory banks as facts.

Understand, I am not saying that these things do not exist, but that under the influence of a hallucinogenic experience, they can become real in your imagination and so leave positive memories, memories just as real as a true happening.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

EE, you posted -->The intensity of the symptoms depend on the extent of the hypnosis, the number of sessions, and the types and exact wording of the commands.
***************

I readily agree to this, also that during any 24 hr period you are under one form or another of involuntary hypnosis, especially if listening to music, driving, or watching the Tv etc.

However, remember, we are not talking about stage or entertainment hypnosis, very different in approach and effect.

An example was in my stating that I gave a 24 cutoff period for pain control, if competnet medical advice or treatment hadn't been obtained.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[EE THr]

RDT---

Now, back to what I was trying to bring out about memories of past events, real or imagined. These can be established by having an 'imagined' experience, while under the influence of any of the hallucinogenics, and from then on, would be thought of as a genuine experience by the super conscience.

Under the influence, One can believe that they had a genuine experience in say remote viewing, talks with past persons, or even experience an imagined regression which then becomes established in the memory banks as facts.

Understand, I am not saying that these things do not exist, but that under the influence of a hallucinogenic experience, they can become real in your imagination and so leave positive memories, memories just as real as a true happening.

Don Jose de La Mancha

I don't disagree with you about unusual occurrences while under the influence of various types of drugs, and alcohol, too.

Just in case you thought that I was referring to some kind of drug therapy as an alternative to hypnosis, I wasn't, though. Otherwise I'm not sure of what point you are trying to make there.

 

[EE THr]

I readily agree to this, also that during any 24 hr period you are under one form or another of involuntary hypnosis, especially if listening to music, driving, or watching the Tv etc.

However, remember, we are not talking about stage or entertainment hypnosis, very different in approach and effect.

A person can only be hypnotized if he agrees to it. As you said, it is the person, himself, causing the hypnotic state. However, if a person considers that he must do certain things, or obey certain people or types of people (like doctors or "persons of authority"), he will do it without analysing whether or not he wants to.

This is why the trick of implanting "trigger" commands works to cause people to go into a hypnotic state, and accept further commands, sometimes even by telephone. Or persons with embedded commands can be caused to actually perform actions directly, simply by other types of trigger stimulus.

The hard core "remote triggering" of people mostly involves commands set-in with the use of a combination of Pain, Drugs, and Hypnosis, or PDH. This is how the "Manchurian Candidate" assassins are created.

I'm aware that you're not talking about stage hypnosis stuff.

But as any kind of a therapy, hypnosis does more harm than good. And it does it in a very unpredictable way.

Any (beneficial) result achieved with hypnosis, can be accomplished better, using other techniques which do not implant any commands, so they can't foul-up the person later, and they are also more reliable.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

EE, I see that we are diametrically opposite in our belief in hypnotism and it's beneficial effects. I am speaking from practical experience and have never had a bad, or 'delayed' reaction, such as you posted, unless it was presented to the subject for a future action, such as when you appear for the interview, you will have no nervousness or doubts on your ability.

I have never embarrassed, hurt, or in any way physically or psychologically harmed anyone or their ego. On the contrary I can present time after time where it has helped. It has saved several marriages and allowed one to over come his lack of confidence to get his PhD.

But yes, in a hypnotic or hallucinogenic trip, false memories can easily be planted, either consciously or sub consciously. Many a shaman or witch Doctor has used the experience to bolster his belief in himself as to having special powers. In fact this is rather common.

I was living with the Yaqui's and in close contact with their Shamans or witch doctors when the infamous Don Juan series of books were written, Carlos did use a bit of literary license hehhe.

I can give you a case of one way 'controlled' telepathy, or how to explain my wife calling all of a deck of cards wrongly, which is within the factor of an impossibility, and on.

This subject can get very involved, however I rather suspect that many of our friends reading this thread are more interested in data on legends etc. as applied to treasure hunting

I wonder why you have such a low opinion of such an extremely' valuable tool? Don't make the mistake of cataloging it as bad because you have such a low opinion of many Psychiatrists who may use it. Some are prime candidates for their own badly needed treatments.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

"Manchurian Candidate" is total BS ...the goverment found it was much easyer to get convicks to do the crimers they could not condition the human mind to do anything it would not normally do ..you have been watching to much TV ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bb, a crude example is that if I flatly told a gal under hypnosis, "take all of your clothes off" she would probably resist, however, if I suggested "you are walking alone on a nice warm summer day. You are in this beautiful little valley completely alone, it is sooo beautiful and peaceful to be so alone, except for the busy bees and birds. Look, there is a beautiful pool of cool, clear water that looks so inviting, since no one is around, nor can approach you, why don't you take your clothes off and go lie down in that pool for a while". Misson accomplished.

You get the idea, anyone can be influenced to do something that normally they would reject, even to killing another by suggesting that there is that %&& person that slowly killed by torture, your entire family, including little 1 year old Caroline. You are authorized to capture or kill this man by any means.

By repeating this until it is well established in the memory banks will do the trick.

Today we are faced with an insidious manner of inducing a passive, receptive state of semi hypnosis in almost anyone, since they would not be aware of an attempt --- our TV. It has been found that by injecting a subliminal pulse of light, or sound on the screen, which you are not aware of, a state of hyper receptiveness can easily be induced. Then it is simple to project a subliminal message or picture, which you will accept unconditionally.

Don't think that for one minute that our benevolent government isn't eying this tremendous power to accomplish what ever they wish, including politics or war.

You know what I am saying Bb, yes, the Manchurian candidate thingie can be successfully done.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

BB, a crude example is that if I flatly told a gal under hypnosis, "take all of your clothes off" she would probably resist, however, if I suggested "you are walking alone on a nice warm summer day. You are in this beautiful little valley completely alone, it is Soho beautiful and peaceful to be so alone, except for the busy bees and birds. Look, there is a beautiful pool of cool, clear water that looks so inviting, since no one is around, nor can approach you, why don't you take your clothes off and go lie down in that pool for a while". Miss on accomplished.

You get the idea, anyone can be influenced to do something that normally they would reject, even to killing another by suggesting that there is that %&& person that slowly killed by torture, your entire family, including little 1 year old Caroline. You are authorized to capture or kill this man by any means.

By repeating this until it is well established in the memory banks will do the trick.

Today we are faced with an insidious manner of inducing a passive, receptive state of semi hypnosis in almost anyone, since they would not be aware of an attempt --- our TV. IT has been found that by injecting a subliminal pulse of light, or sound on the screen, which you are not aware of, A state of hyper receptiveness can easily be induced. Then it is simple to project a subliminal message or picture, which you will accept unconditionally.

Don't think that for one minute that our benevolent government isn't eying this tremendous power to accomplish what ever they wish, including politics or war.

You know what I am saying BB, yes, the Manchurian candidate thingies can be successfully done.

Don Jose DE La Manchu

sorry i disagree RT . even if the act can be done it dose not mean the human mind at some point well not remember the act and recall it ..i could get you to have wild sex with your mule but that dose not mean some day you will in fact remember the act .. the mind is a recorder . the senses are way beyond the recorders abilities . we can play it forward and back wards we can delete and edit the tape but the Hard drive is never totally delited .. it can be reopened just as well as a mental block can be made it can be reopened ..

it is a matte rt of how much damage is done and how long it takes to fix the damage .. repairing the human mind is not so much fun . i would not let anyone help me when i was blinded by nerve damger to the brain ..
i could not see at all i was totally blind , i could not talk . i had very limited motion controll of my hands and ft for the first few weeks , when the on set of the damage was clear i try to shot my self in the front yard with a shot 12 gage what took place after that point was even worse .. i found my self unwilling to give up no matter what .the next year and half would be nothing less then cold blooded torture.i am sorry , even after 10 years i can not talk about it ...

 

[EE THr]

RDT is right---we are getting off topic.

But I have to say that my reference to assassins was not implying that it was done using "regular" hypnosis, but also included Pain and Drugs to accomplish it. Sometimes these people are given "booster" treatments, or "tuneups" every so often. And sometimes they are merely programed to self destruct, especially if the boosters don't work right. They always carry the self destruct command, regardless. Even the command effects of this type of "brainwashing" can also be erased, however, using a technology different than hypnosis, which I previously mentioned.

Furthermore, instances of pain, such as accidents like BB's, will generate hidden "commands." That's why sometimes the effects from injuries last a very long time, even though doctors can't find anything physically wrong. They can also cause actual, observable, physical anomalies which won't heal in the normal time. But the cause of this can be eradicated, too.

...and have never had a bad, or 'delayed' reaction, such as you posted

The problem is that your hypnotic commands add to the jumble of existing "commands" from accidental incidents, creating an unpredictable pattern of possibilities. The point of this being that there is no reliable way of determining "which causes what." That is, with all of these types of commands all mixed together, it is usually impossible to trace the exact source of any detrimental behavior. So it therefore cannot be said that there have been no bad effects from specific sessions of hypnosis. It can be determined, however, at the time when all of these types of commands are eliminated, because the hypnosis sessions are exposed, verbatim, when applying the better technique I mentioned. So proof of all this is possible, and does exist, and it's reliability is shown, because it is repeatable with other people.

Since I have no interest in trying to convince anyone of anything, and this started by my merely answering RDT's question, with an explanation of why I commented on his statement which included hypnosis, I guess it's time to return to topic.