Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

[Bavarian Joe]

Deffo a VZ-24. If you look at the rear barrel band, you can see a square boss on it where the band retaining screw (more like a threaded pin) goes in.

 

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[somehiker]

I see that Joe.
Except for that screw,this one looks pretty close.

 

[somehiker]

I know its far off topic - but ... I just l-o-v-e the knowledge of you guys!
Plueeeze keep it going - I'm an avid 'listener'!

Not necessarily,Loke.
Re:" Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches."

Some think the knife on the Stone Map is a Bayonet.
In the photo,DG is coincidentally holding a rifle with a Bayonet mount.
Bet a few missed that one...

 

[Loke]

*chuckles* so what is it - 'Coincidence' or 'Hunch'?? - hey, it might even be 'Logic'!!

be that as it may - I do enjoy the depth of knowledge yall have (oops - that should be 'all yall'!)

And yes - I have seen the speculations about it being a bayonet - personally, nahhhhh (but then, what do I know).

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI for you Lost Dutchman afficianados, go to -->

http://teca.bncf.firenze.sbn.it/TecaViewer/index.jsp?RisIdr=BNCF0003492212

After, you can thank Alexandre.

The Maps are fantastic.

Loke, it appears that we left you in the lurch, sorry my friend. As for that igerent sheep lover, those are straight cases.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Springfield]

... The Maps are fantastic....

Waren diese kerle auf drogen? For an 1847 chart, the New Mexico portion of the map is terribly inaccurate. Nice penwork though.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sigh, nein mein kinder springfield, they aren't designed for accurate work, but general locations and as referrence points.

I have found points of interest that other maps do not show, so for me they are extremely handy.

Considering where, when, and how they were made, they are tops for their day.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[epidote]

The Ore that I have found at two different formations has matching vescile patterns to pictures of the LDM area. The Quartz trough was very similar in vesicle size and my other dig had Dolo chunks with BB sized dots; material variable. Sometimes the vesicles can be ether solid and hollow.

 

[epidote]

follow the pattern

I have recovered Ore from different locations outside of Arizona however having the same geological type occurance. The Quartz trough has
the same vesciles from a verified hot flow with assorted mineral crystals. My last dig gave a Dolo chunk with BB sized dots. The nuggets from that
prospect are indivdual from rock material. Magma flow detail and fault debris are important.

 

[peralta]

Hello gentlemen, im not an expert on the Dutchman but oroblanco is right when he mentioned that Mexico is a possibility.first one would have to know where everyone drew the line of Mexico at different periods of time.I remember reading that father kinos was at san exavier church one day when an indian informed him that there was a big mining discovery to the distant south in Mexico and it was called (planchas de plata).this was toward the end of the seventeen hundreds.next in copes of maps I seen they were in Spanish abdomen remember a couple showed the word caverna. The reason I mention that is because I know where the planchas de plata is and its not in Mexico.in the same location are two other markings for treasure one I can tell you is a cavern the next I can't tell you.
I know by saying this many will be angry with me and im sorry. All the clues that are given tell me that the Dutchman found his gold in the area of my mines.the Dutchman was very ill and about to die and was not telling all the necessary information on how to get to his mine.whoever was getting all the information from him and writting it down took it for granted that it all was in one area the superstitions.
The Dutchman didn't make as many hikes when he was older.people say he was gone a few days before he returned.returned.
I believe he gave information of what was around his mine but it wasn't close it was in Mexico. That's why I he made few trips. And the older he got the closer the stash. That's why at the end he kept the gold under his bed.if one would see the map of santa Maria, you could see the same things. So I think his large gold stash was in the superstition s but his mine was south. But that is just my opinion.,im probably wrong. Good hunting

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning Peraltea mi compadre: You are correct, as usual I must refer back to my Tayopa. It is not where most have looked for it. In fact it is some 60 miles further south, despite accurate maps - he he h e

So there is no reason that the Dutchman couldn't be elsewhere besides the Superstitons.

Then again sigh

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[peralta]

Hola my friend doing , I hope your doing well.I keep having to change my dates on my trip.but im not as going to rush it.good luck

 

[lgadbois]

Peralta, you said:

"I remember reading that father kinos was at san exavier church one day when an indian informed him that there was a big mining discovery to the distant south in Mexico and it was called (planchas de plata).this was toward the end of the seventeen hundreds."

Padre Kino died in 1711. Planchas de Plata was discovered in 1736. It is located about 15 miles SW of Nogales.

 

[peralta]

Sorry it was taken from a historical book (.missions of sorrow)which covered father kinos mission problems at the time.the planchas de plata were never found and it wasn't across the border that I we have know.where did you get your information, I appreciate your discussing it.
Another story that's also sopose to be across the border is Montana de ruido, mountain of noise.two american prospectors located the ruins of a mission and treasure.one went for supplies and the other disappeared in a storm.the people around the mountain would be afraid of it.they would hear noises comming from the peak and see lights.
I hope oneday to prove that all of these mines I located are the biggest grouping of mines on this side of the border
What people never talk about is the cavern of the gold I located.but if you look at the hearts of stone (latin) you can see some of the contents of some of the mines plus my cavern.

 

[393stroker]

O.B.

I have been involved with Garry for a number of years now doing research that relates to the LDM and the history of the area. To put it simply, he has gathered a great deal of material, much of it original to Garry and our research team, and placed it in one place for all to use.

Many dollars and man/woman hours have gone into his project, and Garry has born much of that financial burden, with no thought of recompense. He has worked hand in hand with Greg Davis and the museum, as well as many members of the Dutch Hunting Community and outside of it.

A careful reading of his site will reveal many fact that have previously been unpublished and, in truth, sometimes unknown. When he knows his source, he gets permission and gives them credit for the information. He even gives individual credit to those who have worked with him.

It's still a work in progress, but anyone interested in the LDM can go to the site and get facts that would take a good deal of time and effort to find. Eventually, I believe his site will be the best single source for the historical records of the LDM. In my opinion, it will also be the most trusted.

Once again, here is the link to the site:

Lost Dutchman Mine Documents

I am taking the liberty of posting Garry's introduction. It should be read carefully:
________________________________________________________

INTRODUCTION

I became interested in the Lost Dutchman Mine Story about four years ago while on a trip to Arizona that included some hiking in the Superstitions. Upon returning home, I joined a Lost Dutchman Forum. I had little background other than a few books I had read and although I may not have realized it immediately, my source material was limited. Luckily, I was almost immediately taken in by a veteran of the forum, Steve Creager. I had asked him some questions privately and he responded very openly and was extremely supportive. He began sharing a lot of detail research material that doesn't appear in books. Steve, only 51, passed away about 10 months after our initial contact, but he had me hooked.

Mainly through Steve, I became acquainted with Gregory Davis and he and I started a correspondence. Gregory must have almost every document that has been uncovered and every book that has been written relating to the Lost Dutchman. In truth, his Lost Dutchman collection is just the tip of the iceberg. His collection of historical material is truly amazing. If I had a question about some subject I was researching, Gregory had information in the mail. Many Dutch Hunters have been treated to his hospitality and access to his collection. His openness and sharing is unusual in a community where "sources and secrets" are frequently guarded closely.

I will be forever indebted to both Steve Creager and Gregory Davis and can only hope to give something back to the Lost Dutchman community.

Realizing how fortunate I was to have access to that type of material, the idea of trying to provide a venue for documents associated with the Lost Dutchman mine and the Peralta Stone Maps came about.

This collection is simply linked to my home page and perhaps someday it will receive a better home.

Adobe Reader is required to access the documents. I suspect most have this on their computer but if not, they can download a free version from numerous sites on the Internet.

Enjoy,

Garry and Carol Cundiff
______________________________________




Welcome to the conversation.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

This is good stuff, on post #118 Mr. Ribaudo posted a link, and under the Adolph Ruth Story, then the Eleanor Clark Collection to the Erwin Ruth and John Reed Collection from the early 1930`s there is a hand writen letter that mentions Rough Canyon, which was an area of interest to me before I saw this. Thanx for the link Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Chuck,

Other than recommending "Tales of the Superstitions" by Robert Blair, Garry's site is one of the best sources for the truth. I imagine when Dr. Glover's next books are published, they will be in that same rarefied air. I trust he will purge all, unverified, information that Aurum/Steven Trost/Spirit/Azhiker.....etc. has fed him over the years.

Dr. Glover is an honest man, and I trust him implicitly. Hard to find a man you would trust with your guns, wife and pups. Thomas is such a man. I'm looking forward to his books coming out soon.

Anything I can do to help you in your search, just ask.

Take care,

Joe

 

[peralta]

G'morning Peraltea mi compadre: You are correct, as usual I must refer back to my Tayopa. It is not where most have looked for it. In fact it is some 60 miles further south, despite accurate maps - he he h e

So there is no reason that the Dutchman couldn't be elsewhere besides the Superstitons.

Then again sigh

Don Jose de La Mancha

Don jose, I have learned from trial and error that there were hundreds of mines all around me and I couldn't see them.it was easy to see the markings but not the mines.now tell me how could they keep it all a secret?I am in contact with mining corporations.so far they want to pay shares in the mines I show them.
GOOD LUCK MI AMIGO
TOM

 

[markmar]

Hi Chuck

Yes , the Collection has good stuff . John Reed's map description , validates my investigation about the mine's region .
If you follow the clues maybe one day to find the mine , but not in Rough Canyon .

Good luck

Marius

 

[markmar]

Hi everybody

I read the letters from John Reed to Erwin Ruth in the Collection .
One thing I don't understand .
Why John Reed's father don't claimed the LDM ? Who or what was the reason ? Would been more benefit for him if he had claim the mine .
Maybe both ( Waltz and John Reed's father ) were sailors in the same boat .

Marius