Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches. - Page 3
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Thread: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

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  1. #31
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    25 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Well, back to the Waltz era maps.

    The Harmond map says to go North from just East of Weaver's Needle, over a saddle, to a spring with rocks piled high in it, look up, and it's within ten paces. That indicates the NE quadrant.

    The two Walker & Wieser maps seem to say to go south from the river, and the mine is East of a major canyon. "Pinacle" is actually Superstition Peak. This again indicates the NE quadrant.

    The second version "Wieser-Walker" map. Some people just can't draw a map. Jeez. This says, "The mine on Easterly shelf," and shows the Four Peaks. The Four Peaks don't look like that from any angle, so the mine must be on a shelf in the East Supers, and the alignment with Four peaks is attempted to be depicted. Globe is to the West, so the top, where the mine is shown, must be North. This, again, indicates the NE quadrant.


    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  2. #32
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11819 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Morning EE, my friend: join Beth, Oro, with me? The Mulatto's is supposedly a sure sign of a silver deposit if in sufficient quantities. There are many others, especially their reference to the so called fires / luminous gas.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  3. #33
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    25 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Gulp! Thank you. I needed that.

    That's great news! My wife's a mulatto---I'm gonna go frisk her right now!

    8)




    Or were you referring to something else?

    (No speaka de Spanish.)
    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  4. #34
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    14,603
    11819 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Evening EE: you posted-->---I'm gonna go frisk her right now!

    ************
    Sheesh, it is a good thing that you are married to her. I'd hate to be the cause of your vocal range being elevated.

    The mullatos referred to is a plant, not a Yellow Rose of Texas type.

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  5. #35
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    7,551
    8603 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Don Jose are you referring to Epithelantha micromeris?


    Indicator plants are very often useful in searching for minerals that do not crop out on the surface, we ought not be surprised that Mexican prospectors knew which varieties to look for. Just for our readers who may not be posting, here is an online article which explains this much better than I can:
    http://technology.infomine.com/artic...or.plants.aspx

    Muchas gracias mi compadre Don Jose' por la cafe!

    Oroblanco



    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  6. #36
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    25 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Oro---

    Wow, nice link. Thanks!
    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  7. #37
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    7,551
    8603 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    You are most welcome amigo, it is a branch of this business that I am still very much the learner.
    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  8. #38
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    25 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Next in the timeline, of the maps in the links above, is the Julia Thomas. And another, which appears to be copied from it, only with North and South reversed, and a bit more to scale.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Julia Thomas - Robert Blair Map 1892.jpg 
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    There is an interesting similarity between the depiction of the needle in the "Unnamed" map, and the heart stone from the "Peralta" Stones.

    Name:  Heart Stone Needle.jpg
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    And again, the NE quadrant is indicated.

    Another interesting thing is that Julia's map says, "ORE HERE," rather than, "MINE."


    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  9. #39
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    25 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    There are more coincidences and similarities with lots of these maps, but the problem is that it is impossible to get exact matches with them to the actual geography of the Supers.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Match to treasm11 Jenkins Map.jpg 
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    Or is it?



    Note the position of the needle, and the position of the compass.

    This Google shot is in the NE quadrant.

    It would seem that whoever originally drew this map, was actually there, at the viewed-from spot, anyway. Of course, that doesn't mean that he put the X in the correct place. Or even that this is anywhere near the LDM.



    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  10. #40

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    7,749
    5322 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    EE,

    It would not surprise me if you went to the area of the X and found an old dig there. As I recall, Barry Storm had a location that he worked where he thought the ore came from. The Jim Hatt location of that X and Storm's are different if I remember correctly.

    It turns out that a letter written by George Snell to Chuck Aylor describes a trip made by Storm, Jenkins and Snell......maybe another person as well, and the canyon that Jenkins led them to was not the one described in Storm's book.

    Sounds like a perfect Storm-isim to me.




    Good luck,

    Joe
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

  11. #41
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    25 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper
    Sounds like a perfect Storm-isim to me.






    Click image for larger version. 

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    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  12. #42
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    25 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Arrastras---

    The question has come up as to whether there are, or were, arrastras in the Supers.


    Apparently somebody thought there was, or wanted to pretend there was. The first map looks like it is dated 1846, and has the name Manuel Peralta on it.

    The John Mitchell Timeline says---
    "[Origin date] 1844, [Published date] 1846; MX-Peralta-Apache Minos (Fish) Manuel A."

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	treasm57 El Cerrotero de los Mines Oro Manuel Peralta 1646 Apacho.jpg 
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    The next map looks like a copy of the above. It's missing some of the stuff that appears on the above, but has added the river name. Also, specific location marks (X's) for the mines above the arrastra. Or is it trying to show multiple arrastras, as the X's are not marked "Mine" like the other X's are, at the other locations on this map.

    The John Mitchell Timeline says---
    "[Origin date] 1844, [Published date] 1846; MX-Peralta-Apache Minos (Fish) Frank Fish."

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	treasmp8 El Cerrotero de los Minas oro Apacho.jpg 
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    The next one seems to be from a different source. It shows a different layout, for multiple arrastras, a major camp, some ruins, and the classic "Pit-Tunnel-Cave House" configuration.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	treasm33 Minos del Oro Map vert.jpg 
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    There is a digit missing in the date on this one.
    The John Mitchell Timeline says---
    "[Origin date] 1844, [Published date] 1846; MX-Peralta Minos Del Oro Map (1st trip=4mines) Manuel A."
    It also says, further down---
    "[Origin date] 1844, [Event date] 1912; Erwin Ruth gets Gonzales/Manuel Peralta map trip #1-4mines."

    The top two maps indicate the NE quadrant. The bottom one indicates lots of stuff going on in the NE quadrant, and it may be out of proportion with the placement of the "Pit-Tunnel-Cave House" location. I think the whole map, except for the needle, is probably in the NE quadrant, and the needle is depicted for directional reference only, rather than scale.

    The manner in which the "Black Mesa" is drawn, on this one, reminds me of that same shape and shading, in some of the other maps. But this is not the shape of what is currently called Black Mesa. Or am I thinking of Black Top Mesa? (Anybody know where there is a map with all these names on it?)

    At any rate, it sure looks like this feature, except it's flipped over in the map drawing, probably to show the cliffs and accent the "notch." Notice the orientation to North, by the river on the map, and the compass on the Google Earth shot---

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Black Mesa or X.jpg 
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    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  13. #43
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    7,551
    8603 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    EE THr wrote
    The first map looks like it is dated 1646
    Not that it is a terribly important point, but when you look closely at that date the first "6" looks to me as if it is more likely an "8" making a date of 1846 rather than 1646. Just an opinion, as for what the creator of the map meant to put there quien sabe?

    Please do continue, just a comment from your local 'peanut gallery'.
    Oroblanco



    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  14. #44
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    25 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Oro---

    Not only does it look more like an 8, but when I was checking the original download (I re-sized most of these) to get another look, I found that I had cut off the bottom of the middle map, which had a date and more, on the portion I accidentally clipped.

    So now it looks like the top was 1846 and the middle was 1848, which makes sense.

    Oops!

    Thanks for catching that.
    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  15. #45

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    7,749
    5322 times

    Re: Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

    Roy,

    Have to agree. When you blow it up, it seems to be 1846.

    Take care,

    Joe
    " Hell, I was there!" Elmer Keith
    "There is an ancient proverb that says a man can never forgive you for a wrong he has done you." From a wise friend.

 

 
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