The Peralta Stones

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie---

Yes, you answered in greater detail than I expected, and I thank your patience and explanations.

Your research is seeming to show possible alignment with theories and possibilities, which others on here have expressed, as to the origin of the treasure.

Do you have an idea as to where it came from?

Yes!

EE Thr;

By 1303 the Templars, with their wealth and their autonomy posed a particular threat to the French King, Phillip de Bel. He envied the Templars power and he owed the Templars money. He vowed to disband them, and set about to discredit them.
First he engineered the kidnapping and death of one Pope, then the murder of another, then secured the election of his own candidate, the archbishop of Bordeaux, to the Vatican papal throne.

Armed with a list of charges, among them denying Christ and worshipping the devil, Phillip ordered the Templars arrested.
At dawn on Friday October the 13th, 1307 all the Templars in France were to be seized and placed under arrest, their preceptories, (A community of medieval Knights Templars located on a provincial estate and subordinate to the main temples at Paris and London.) to be given over to the king and their goods confiscated.

The Templars appeared to have been warned in advance because there was an organized flight of Templars, the treasure of the Temple in Paris and almost all their documents disappeared. Rumors were that the Templar treasure had been taken to their naval base at La Rochelle, loaded into galleys which were never heard from again. Some of them may have fled to Portugal, to Scotland and maybe even to America.

Monteczuma's Treasure is also another one to consider due to some historical facts that have not yet been verified or documented as of yet.

There are a number of depositories throughout the states of Arizona and New Mexico that I am personally aware of. The problem lies in the facts relating to the depositories location (on whose property) and finances. The first (location) eliminates 80 to 97%, you will never gain access to the treasure. The others you have located will always require a large amount of capital and if you do not have the cash then someone who does will control your project. No fun there my friend because they want to throw the towel in to early, a lack of due diligence. You have to prove your findings 100% or all bets are off. I have been there and my experience will assist you once you prove out your cache/discovery.

Walking across the desert aimlessly is sheer madness, you must have a well detailed plan and the proof to guarantee that your plan will work. That is the bottom line in this profession, there is no room for failure.

I have chosen my target very carefully and they haven’t beaten us yet. This location is tied to the stone maps because the clues have told us where to look. If you recognize the signs and know how to use them and if your perseverance holds out along with your time and money you just may find it. Now you have completed the easy part, which was locating the cach.

Later my friend,

Ellie Baba

 

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[EE THr]

Ellie---

Thanks again for the explanations.

My hunch would be Montezuma's. I don't think it fell into the river.

Victorio Peak sounds more like the Templars'.

c u L8r,
Don

 

[somehiker]

Paul,

"Considering there isn't even a photo of Waltz that can be agreed upon and documented that it's him, I just don't see how you can do what you're trying to do BB, but best of luck to you I guess."

bb bragged to his friends some time ago about what he was trying to do here. As I read his posts, it's obvious, at least to me, he has not changed his mind......That assumes he is even capable of changing it.

It seems the Stone Maps has run out of pertinent things to discuss. The only thing left is the history of it all.

Take care,

Joe

I suspect that Ellie Baba,for one,would disagree with your synopsis.

Springfield,

"You've got a guy who has more experience with the 'Peralta stones' than any except a very small group of researchers can match (including a few who contribute to this forum, you excluded), and he offers some extremely detailed explanations about the stones for the curious to consider."

There are many people who offer their opinions on the Stone Maps, who know little of the history that surrounds them......or the Superstition Mountains.

Beth has shown that she has done considerable research into both of those topics, and was interested enough to submit a FOIA request for evidence. I have been researching the stones for around 40 years and have never made that particular, focused, effort.

We will always have people like bb, who will expound on the unknown details of the stones, without even knowing that the priest/horse maps are on the same stone. Research is the answer for that shortcoming.

Ellie has been working with the stones for many years. He has the added advantage of friends and family who have also researched the subject and passed along their own take on what it all means.

After so many years, each of us feels some proprietorship in the artifacts. Every opinion or theory that comes along that doesn't conform to our own, raises our hackles. My own conclusions have engendered just as heated as well as the same type of derisive comments as Ellie's.

All of us have been guilty of denigrating the other guy/girls conclusions, and that especially applies to me. I am trying to be more open or at least accepting of those opinions, no matter how off the wall they may seem to me. Wouldn't hurt for all of us to make that kind of effort.

On the other hand, it may just be the nature of the beast.

Take care,

Joe

That is what's likely to keep the Stone Maps topic going for some time to come.

Regards:SH.

 

[Blindbowman]

BB - results are only as good as the data that goes into profile programs. The fact of the matter is, there's SO LITTLE documentation regarding Jacob Waltz that can be verified that there's mostly no way to tell what's true and what's not, so how do you decide what goes into the computer program as a profile?

I'm not denigrating profiling to solve mysteries, but I don't see any way at all for anyone to know they're accurately profiling Jacob Waltz or the Peraltas for that matter - at least not enough to narrow down the location of the Lost Dutchman Mine.

there is way more to the collection of data then you think ..

see waltz was a body index of a man his age and height and weight . but body index goes far beyond that ..if we know his age of death we can detail his past physical nature

we can then compare that to some one of his age group and someone his race .. there is a fulcrum point between the outer scale and the inner scale .. we isolate that fulcrum and we find the distance of a person the weight between 135-165 lbs in avg health and find out how far they can hike under the avg conditions & environments of the same area .. if we can not isolate the area then we take a set of readings and isolate that avg and then compare it to that reading .. it will not be 100% but we can also take multi readings and avg them ..

We'll just have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. Sure you can average multiple readings, but again the results are only as good as the data that goes in. We have a saying in my profession that I'm sure you've heard, "garbage in, garbage out." What sort of accuracy and variability can you document in your results?

Considering there isn't even a photo of Waltz that can be agreed upon and documented that it's him, I just don't see how you can do what you're trying to do BB, but best of luck to you I guess.

in making jet blades we can use dial Gage readings and take readings down to .001 and i have my self taken readings from every part out .. after a sequence of readings . you can see how the grinder Wheel age and ware as they are used up .. the avg eye or a signal test or even a small test group can not detect ..

this the effect i am recording .. they theory is simple .. the process takes time and hard work .but . if you can isolate one part to focus on other test groups will start to match the same results and you correct there is no 100% positive .until you do the ground work to confirm your focus findings

but in a case of events where few to no real evidence still remains visible .. any logical way to gain insight into the balance of factors that are taking place just out of sight is some times all it takes to recover a stable direction ..

 

[Blindbowman]

Paul,

"Considering there isn't even a photo of Waltz that can be agreed upon and documented that it's him, I just don't see how you can do what you're trying to do BB, but best of luck to you I guess."

bb bragged to his friends some time ago about what he was trying to do here. As I read his posts, it's obvious, at least to me, he has not changed his mind......That assumes he is even capable of changing it.

It seems the Stone Maps has run out of pertinent things to discuss. The only thing left is the history of it all.

Take care,

Joe

well said ,, i have stood by and watch your replies i have posted for the most part what i felt you wanted to hear .. but

i know a lot more about the stones now i have not posted for good reason

i would replied to this post but i was gone to see my brother yesterday ..

CJ your person with a lot of first hand wisdom about the area and the legends ,.. but as we all know .. that makes you only focus on what you believe .. i don't have a opinion in my line of research .it takes me where it wants and the legend never fades away it lays just hidden in the shadows of time ..just out of sight .

i did use the stone as a focus point . i still don't, i never will

a clue is a tool . if you use it or not is up to you .. results are my focus ! and i get them .. far more then anyone at this site knows ...

your hoops get old and misleading data may come back to bit me , but posting it and under standing it will take you far longer to define then me ..

and don't give me the your wasting all our time speech it gets old after the first dozen times

i wish you long health and a happy trail ...

 

[Blindbowman]

CJ: It seems the Stone Maps has run out of pertinent things to discuss. The only thing left is the history of it all.

you would want people to believe that wouldn't you ..

the fact is i found over 3100 different areas the evidence focused on .. all ranged from 2% to 57 % but one rated 97%

i think 1 out of 3100+ was a fairly good focus point

i could add a mile of data to the stones topic .. but i wont ...lol

 

[Springfield]

Ellie---

Yes, you answered in greater detail than I expected, and I thank your patience and explanations.

Your research is seeming to show possible alignment with theories and possibilities, which others on here have expressed, as to the origin of the treasure.

Do you have an idea as to where it came from?

Yes!

EE Thr;

By 1303 the Templars, with their wealth and their autonomy ......

Monteczuma's Treasure is also another one to consider ......

There are a number of depositories throughout the states of Arizona and New Mexico that I am personally aware of. The problem lies in the facts relating to the depositories location (on whose property) and finances. The first (location) eliminates 80 to 97%, you will never gain access to the treasure. .....

I have chosen my target very carefully and they haven’t beaten us yet. This location is tied to the stone maps because the clues have told us where to look. If you recognize the signs and know how to use them and if your perseverance holds out along with your time and money you just may find it. Now you have completed the easy part, which was locating the cach.

Later my friend,

Ellie Baba

Those who EB calls The Group were not only the world's greatest treasure hunters (unlimited capabilities, resources and information directly from the sources - their own people), but when you consider that they also controlled a monster share of the USA's wealth-producing infrastructure (railroads, mines, timber, industry, banks, government), it's easy to imagine where the gold came from that created the many other caches that are not neccesarily associated with 'lost treasure' legends. Back in the day, when the coin of the realm was gold, not toilet paper, it was methodically skimmed from the economy and secured in places off-limits to the public. Why? It's the No. 1 question. I wonder if they've been patiently waiting for the systemic failure of all the world's fiat currencies (seemingly rapidly approaching and including our own funny money), when gold then becomes money again and the Golden Rule comes back into vogue - 'He who has the gold makes the rules'. The No. 2 question: are these the Good Guys or the Bad Guys? That leads into a deeper rabbit hole. Note: these ideas are speculative and always subject to change - use at your own comfort level.

 

[Blindbowman]

if you think they were a part of the past your wrong

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB my friend: to a point you are correct, I understand very well what you are saying, but that isn't good enough. For example you have a considerable amount of extremely personal data on me, all readily available in here, as well as other sources. An infinite amount, in comparison to Waltz. Analyze me.

1) Am I really me? (Was Waltz he himself?)

2) Do I always tell the truth? Or even part of the time. (Did Waltz?)

3) Am I telling the truth about Tayopa? Do I really have it? (Did Waltz?)

4) Can anyone do business with me with any reasonable sense of security? (shaddup Roy, as a matter of fact Beth, send me his.)

5) How will I handle Deposit #2 that is one days mule travel to the East?

6) Where 'IS' deposit no 2? This should be far easier than where is Waltz' gold source.

7) Most Important, where is the 'actual' Entrance to Tayopa (Where is Waltz's hole in the ground?)


As A matter of fact I probably can psychoanalyze someone far better, quicker, and easier, by just knowing the hr and date of their birth. Try me !

Cubber & Springfield, I trust both of you to be professionally interested and to be unbiased. So, give me a birth date of someone that you know intimately, and I will give you a basic psychological profile of them by pm. All that is required is that you post in here whether I am either in or out of the ball park. The same goes for you BB.

Send me the hr., if possible, and date by pm or on the internet. Beth send me Roy's.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

i dont think so ... maybe next year

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Why not now BB? A simple birth date of a completely unknown person that you intimately know. This could be key element is setting up your profile data.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

who cares ..lol

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB my friend, are you evading an imaginary issue, or simply just don't care? If you don't care, that would fly in the face of all of your statements of being Intelligent.


Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

BB my friend, are you evading an imaginary issue, or simply just don't care? If you don't care, that would fly in the face of all of your statements of being Intelligent.


Don Jose de La Mancha

no that means i sick of the BS

do you know why i sent you that PM . lol forget it your no different then the rest them ...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB Interesting, What does that have to do with learning about another extremely valuable tool to add to your arsenal?

An intelligent , open minded, person, never refuses to learn more. In fact they fight to acquire more.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

BB Interesting, What does that have to do with learning about another extremely valuable tool to add to your arsenal?

An intelligent , open minded, person, never refuses to learn more. In fact they fight to acquire more.

Don Jose de La Mancha

what dose this have to do with the topic ..

i know what i found .. its all of you that don't ...lol

 

[Blindbowman]

you get real good internet for being in Mexico...

 

[Blindbowman]

1 infinity for 7

1847 what dose it mean ...?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Sheesh, 1 '8' 47 there is that elusive '8' again "Aces & 8's" hmmm.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

1 infinity for 7

1847 what dose it mean ...?

BB - when do you believe the stones were carved again? I can't find your post where you state that.