I made several posts in the "Tumlinson Profile" topic, about the color of the Heart Stone, as reported in the April-May, 1973, Frontier Times article, by Bernice and Jack McGee.
I'm not sure that my posts about the McGees article belonged in that topic, but it kind of relates to the possibility that Travis made the Stone Maps, so I'm posting this extension of it here.
I got to looking at the side view of the Heart Stone posted there, and thought that an analysis of it's own probable timeline would be interesting, and possibly revealing of something further clues.
Here is the photo I'm referring to, taken by Joe R. (cactusjumper), where the Stone Maps are on display---
While the McGee's story twice refers to the Heart Stone as a "yellowish rock," the Heart on display, as can be seen in the photo above, appears to be a reddish dark brown. I got to wondering how this could be resolved.
The grooves in the markings certainly do look "yellowish." So it appears that the stone material, itself, is indeed composed of yellowish rock of some kind.
The article also says "slate-type rock." Due to the apparent layering, as seen on the side of the Heart, it does seem that this description is realistic, too.
But I find it problematic that, merely because the color in the grooves reveal the natural yellow color of the stone inside, that the authors would describe the looks of it merely as "yellowish rock." Seeing as there are no color photographs included in the article, if any description would be given under that circumstance, it would be much more complete, regarding the appearance of it, to state the overall obvious color of the surface, plus note the color of the inside of it as indicated by the line marking grooves. As it stands, the story gives the impression that the Heart they saw was yellowish all over, due to the three different statements to that effect.
I would describe it as made from a yellowish rock which was a reddish dark brown on the outside.
Or as reddish dark brown rock, with yellowish line marking grooves. Because it's overall appearance is the reddish dark brown, and only upon close inspection can it be seen that the lighter coloring, of the grooves of the markings, is because the outer stain was penetrated by whatever tool was used to carve the lines.
But regardless of how it is described, there is an interesting sequence of events which must have taken place in the creation of the Heart Stone, by whoever made it. This sequence may shed some light on possible theories about who made it, and under what circumstances (as possible conditions during the making of the Stones are suggested by the McGees, in their article referenced above).
First, considering the very dark coloring of the surface of the Heart Stone. How did that get there?
Is it a natural patina, darkened over time?
If it were a natural patina, with the yellow underneath exposed, when the marking lines were carved, then why aren't the sides of the Heart yellow also? Unless the heart was found naturally in that heart-shape, it had to have been carved to shape it that way, right? If the marking lines were carved before it got patinaed, the line grooves would also be dark.
I know that skin oil, from handling, can darken stone, like the well known effect on turquoise, but not this dark, and not this consistant, all over the surface of a piece the size of the Heart.
If it was a naturally patinaed slab, the sides would be yellow. So it was stained at some point before it was carved.
Either that, or it was carved into a heart shape long before the line markings were grooved into it. If this were the case, then the Stone Trail maps would have to have been sized to fit the (much older) Heart.
An interesting thing about the darker surface of the Heart, is that it is darkened on both sides. Was it carved into a heart, then set out, laying out in the weather for a very long time, then turned over, like a pancake, to patina the flip side? For what purpose? What are the odds of that?
It seems like a conclusion can be made that the Heart Stone in the photo above, was first carved into a heart shape, then stained somehow, then the line markings were grooved into it.
But wait! There's more! 8)
What about those breaks? And the glue?
Some of the marking lines pass through the breaks. It looks like the glue is a dark color, even darker than the stain. But since the yellow in the marking grooves doesn't show yellow where the glue was applied, it must have had the line marking grooves carved before it was glued. Also, none of the yellow of the inside of the stone shows where the breaks are glued, so the glue was smeared in such a way that it, intentionally or not, eliminated any yellow showing through.
So, from all that above, the apparent Heart making sequence (disregarding the carved-heart-aged-patina-stone-flipping scenario)---
1. Some slate-type rock was gotten from somewhere, either at the correct thickness or trimmed to the existing thickness.
2. The Heart shape was carved from this slab.
3. The Heart was somehow stained a reddish dark brown, on both sides, and all around the edges.
4. The line marking grooves were carved into the Heart, leaving the grooves yellowish.
5. The Heart Stone was carefully broken, in two places, with the breaks crossing each other.
6. The breaks were glued, using some kind of dark glue.
7. The Stone Maps were "discovered" by Travis Tumlinson (or he discovered the first one, the Priest/Horse Stone, and made the Trail and Heart Stones) or whatever version of how he came to have them, that you prefer!
For number five, above, it doesn't really seem possible that the breaks were accidental. There would be chips on the Heart Stone, most probably on the edges, if it was broken from a fall. It seems improbable that the two breaks, in different directions would occur together, and be so symmetrically placed. Although there appear to be some dents around the edge of the Heart in the photo, any chips would show yellowish stone, as the line marking grooves do.
At point number five in the sequence, is the only time that the breaks could have taken place, due to the observations listed previously in this post.
If the Heart Stone was, indeed, intentionally broken, then those breaks were intended to mean something.
If the Heart Stone was artificially patinaed, then what are the possible ways of doing that? I mean, if someone used a stain from the local hardware store, it would surely be readily detectable, right? People do artificially patina brass objects and coins, so is there a way to do it to rocks? Like roasting in the oven or something? Or applying some chemical which will then evaporate or change to something which is naturally found on patinaed rock?
All-in-all, the sequence of manufacture tells something. It tells that the making of the Heart Stone, shown in the Photo, was far more complex than making the Trail Stones or Horse/Priest Stones. Now the question would be, "Why go to so much trouble for that one stone?"
Another question would be, "Why did the McGees leave their description as simply 'a yellowish stone'?" And, right after stating that color, why did they add the word "reportedly" in the sentence, "Reportedly cut from a slab of red chalcedony" (were they indicating a possible contradiction with their own observation of the Heart?)
And of course, the question of, why the McGees' drawing of the Heart Stone line markings, is drastically different than the display Heart Stone, when all of the other of their Stone Maps drawings are essentially the same as the ones on display?
And finally, that lingering question that just won't go away: What is that confounding "needle," which matches the Needle on that copy of Julia's map, doing on the Heart Stone in the photo?
reference photos---
Back side of the display Heart Stone
Heart Map drawing from McGees' article Heart Stone on display
(I know, I said I was done talking about the McGees' "Yellow Heart Stone," but this adds more about the Heart on display, namely the sequence of manufacture.) 8)
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
As you can see, a lot depends on if you are viewing the stones themselves, or pictures of them:
These pictures were taken by Steve Decker of the Mining and Mineral Museum. He used different lighting in an attempt to bring out different details. I can blow these pictures up 400% with little loss of quality.
That is absolutely right. Thanks for posting such an excellent example set of photos.
Indoor incandescent lighting tends to make a picture more yellowish-orange. Regular fluorescent lighting has a different effect, and then there are the full-spectrum fluorescents that mimic sunlight. Outdoor lighting depends on how cloudy it might be at the time. So, exact colors can't be assumed when looking at photos.
Color comparisons are a little better, though. Like comparing the color of the Heart Stone to the Trail Maps, when they are photographed together.
Overall, from the various pictures of the Stones that I've seen, the Stones that look the most likely to be the originals give the appearance that the Horse/Priest is basically gray with some staining, while the Trail Maps are generally brownish tan. And of course the Heart always looks significantally darker.
While I'm at it, I'll add that the surface of the Trail Maps appear to have more of a sandy texture, than does the Horse/Priest Stone.
Then there are the replicas, which usually appear to be more or less dull colors. And in each set, all the Stones seem to be the same color. I think I've seen photos on the Web, of about a half dozen different replica sets, but I have no way to know for sure because some may be the same photos or taken of the same sets at different times. And then there is the probability that several sets of the same reproduction run would be the same color.
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
I wanted to offer a couple of comments regarding the McGee's involvement with the Peralta Stones.
I don't believe the McGees ever laid eyes on the physical stones.
The sketches that appeared in the Peralta Stone Hoax article, that Bernice wrote, were indeed her creations. I might be able to come up with a "how" but it would be speculation. She obviously had the images in Mitchell's book and she took some things from the Pat Hainer sketches. I got the idea that Bernice was scrambling to gather "all" of the information.
Before the article was published someone who had finally seen the maps passed on some of the final information that completed her sketches.
The stone colors came from Pat Hainer's recollection, not Bernice's, and it had been over 10 years since the Hainer's had seen the stones when that correspondence took place.
I have a huge stack of letters between the Bernice McGee and William Bent. She discusses the Superstitions in many of those letters. I seem to recall some comments about the Stone Maps as well. I will skim through them tonight and see if there is anything there.
I don't believe the McGees ever laid eyes on the physical stones.
The sketches that appeared in the Peralta Stone Hoax article, that Bernice wrote, were indeed her creations. I might be able to come up with a "how" but it would be speculation. She obviously had the images in Mitchell's book and she took some things from the Pat Hainer sketches.
Before the article was published someone who had finally seen the maps passed on some of the final information that completed her sketches.
The stone colors came from Pat Hainer's recollection, not Bernice's, and it had been over 10 years since the Hainer's had seen the stones when that correspondence took place.
Garry
I had wondered why they published just drawings, and not photos (except for the Horse). My first reaction was that they didn't have the Stones on hand to photograph. But that doesn't mean that they didn't make the drawings at some earlier time, when they were looking at the Stones.
That the caption under the Priest, discloses the makeshift manner of information assemblage for that particular drawing, indicates that if the other drawings were not from first hand viewing of those various other Stones, they would have also disclosed that.
Although anything is possible, I think this is strong evidence that whoever drew the Stone Map depictions used in their article, had direct contact with the Stones.
The Pat Hainer you mention isn't listed in the article, but there are so many aliases floating through it, that it's hard to follow. Is he one of those? If not, how do you link those sources you suggested to the drawings in their story?
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
Once again, I have found another error in my postings. Two, actually. Possibly.
One, is when I said they didn't mention the breaks in the Heart Stone. I was scrolling through the article again, and there are the breaks, drawn in on the Heart Stone, but only on the back view, with the six zeros. I was focusing only on the blow-up view of the "front" of it, with the trail, and paid no attention to the back side drawing. Sorry about that!
The second possible error is right there in post #103, in the first clipping excerpt from the McGee's article---
Again, I just breezed over this, and didn't think it through. The question is, does this mean that it was still being kept secret, so nobody, including the McGees, knew what it looked like at that time? Or does it mean that it had been a secret, but it was being revealed for the first time, right there in that article? It seems strange that it is only mentioned in passing, in either case---because one way, it would mean that their Heart drawing of the "face" side is admittedly bogus, and the other way it would mean that this was the very first time that it had been made public!
With the special caption to explain, in a very detailed way, the makeup of the Priest drawing, it seems like they would have also added a caption like that, at the very least, to the Heart Stone face drawing.
They do then go on there, in that same paragraph, to describe what the Heart face markings consist of, and in doing so are alluding to having seen it. But maybe not. Maybe they are just saying that they have knowledge of generally what is on the Heart face, and not necessarily that they have actually seen it.
So, if they are saying that the Heart face is merely guesswork, then my suspicions about the markings being different are all for nothing.
But if they are saying that this is the first public viewing of the Heart face, then it is even more curious!
What the heck are they saying there?
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
Your interest regarding the 1973 McGee article did cause me to look back at some of the miscellaneous documents that I have from the Bernice McGee Collection. This information is not included in the McGee correspondence posted on the LDM Documents site.
Below is a transcription of an excerpt from the last page of a 5 page document. I call it a document but it could also be referred to as a letter. The problem is that it has no date or heading. It was a bit unusual for Bernice to make a copy of a letter she was sending but I am in the dark as to who the person was, she sent it too.
I believe it was about the 1971 timeframe.
Bernice wrote:
Fortunately we have a color slide of the horse map, without tape…this can be used as evidence, but how to make the reader understand what we are trying to tell them, without use of a Florence Quad map, will pose a real problem! Our publisher thinks it can be done…we shall see!
You are the first to see our deductions. Most of the facts given here were taken from the voluminous notes we have taken over the past months…hope it makes sense to you. How we wish we could make it to Phoenix to examine the maps without tape.
The Marlowe’s showed us hours of color slides of all four maps (without tape) but we cannot remember what was beneath the word “corazon.” This all happened too many years ago, and we were unaware at that time of this story ever being written. We did pretty good to remember everything else we saw, but the story cannot be 100% complete, or accurate, until we know this one set of hidden “whatevers”.
I do have the color slide of the horse map (The Mitchell’s gave that slide to Bernice when she was preparing the invitation to a Ghost Walk Article - 1965). There are also some other working photos that I believe she was using to prepare the article. Those photos were actually cut with scissors from Mitchell’s book, “Superstition Treasures”. The text is on the back. I believe I also have the original ink drawings she eventually prepared for the article but I didn’t dig them out last night.
The Hainers were actually the Hansens from the Hoax article. For you, the Hainer letters might be worthwhile reading. I don’t remember whether I posted their sketches but I believe I probably did.
I’m working on some other projects right now and don’t have much time to devote to this part of the story but If you read the other articles written by Bernice on the Superstition Mountains, the 30 or so Mitchell letters, the 10 Hainer letters, and various other documents and articles that are posted, I suspect you can come up with a pretty decent timeline of the McGee’s involvement.
I don’t know the date when the Flagg Foundation first allowed the public to view and photograph the stones without tape but it would have probably been in the 1972 timeframe. I think in one of the Magill letters, he speaks of photographing the stones and even having the opportunity to perhaps purchase them from the Flagg Foundation. (I think this was 1973)
I apologize for not digging these details out but I just didn’t want to invest the time right now. I’m sure you can duplicate and correct any misstatements that may have crept in.
Your interest regarding the 1973 McGee article did cause me to look back at some of the miscellaneous documents that I have from the Bernice McGee Collection. ....
Garry
Garry---
I certainly appreciate your adding information here (not to mention the expanse of info on your Website!)
Originally Posted by Garry
[Bernice] ..., but the story cannot be 100% complete, or accurate, until we know this one set of hidden "whatevers."
What Bernice says there, tends to support the idea of their intention to be accurate. It looks like what she was asking for may have included the "face" side of the Heart Stone. Excellent, and thanks for taking the time to dig that out.
The question now would be, did the person she asked there, send her a photo or drawing, or merely a written "general idea" of what was on the face? Or did he send anything at all, and her source was elsewhere? I would say that since she sent that person all of the info that would be going into their article, that a reciprecation, possibly including something about the face of the Heart, is likely.
Strictly speaking, in their quest for accurate reporting, it seems that they would have listed somewhere, the source for the Heart face diagram. But with the various levels of confidentiality shown to be involved with the Stone Maps, at different points in time, it would be entirely understandable for them not to mention any details about this. The clipping I excerpted from their article, telling about the face side of it being kept secret, may have served as an incidental disclosure statement, as it also gave the written summarization, generally indicating what currently was known about it, without any exact details of the placement of the markings.
So, if the person she wrote to there, was the source for their Heart face data, then what is lacking in their article is specifically whether they were sent an actual image of some kind, or just the description which they gave in the clipped excerpt.
Maybe they felt, for one reason or another, that the face of the Heart would never be shown to the public, so absolute accuracy with that part wasn't necessary. Their article does, at least, give a hint (in a sort of round-about way), that something may be amiss with the drawing of the Heart face. But it only makes it ambiguous, at best.
And I guess, considering the theme of their story, they also may have figured that the exact details of the Heart face wouldn't ever really matter to anyone anyway!
Thanks again,
Don
An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.
So what ever happened to BlindBowman? Was he boo'd and exhiled from ever coming back to another LD campout get together? Or did he run off with his gold riches and end up buying some common sense? Inquiring minds want to know
Interesting that I saw you had posted something on this thread. Well I started reading the older posts relating to the Stone Maps and I realized that some questions had not been answered.
1. Why is the heart insert stone red in color; it represents the blood of Christ and the price he paid for our sins. The Sacred Heart Church is a major clue and the Jesuits are involved. Joe is absolutely correct regarding the type of lighting used to take photographs of the Stone Maps.
2. The heart was cracked/broken separating the upper left lobe; it is a death sign warning the uninitiated to stay away or die.
3. There are three hearts displayed on the heart map, one under the heart insert and one on each side of the insert.
4. There are three hearts located adjacent to each other at a specific location in the depository area defined by the horse map.
5. The horse of the Holy Faith (a large monument enhanced by the hands of man) directs us to the fourth stone map found near the three hearts; it is known as the "R- rock". The horse stone map directs us where to find the "Horse of the Holy Faith monument". The McGee's million $ horse truly exists.
6. The R-rock monument is required in order to solve many of the clues found on the Stone Maps; primarily the Horse Tablet.
My new book is currently being edited; it will not be too soon for me.
Interesting that I saw you had posted something on this thread. Well I started reading the older posts relating to the Stone Maps and I realized that some questions had not been answered.
1. Why is the heart insert stone red in color; it represents the color of stone used. The Sacred Heart Church is a major clue and the Jesuits are involved. Joe is absolutely correct regarding the type of lighting used to take photographs of the Stone Maps.
2. The heart was cracked/broken separating the upper left lobe; it is a true sign if you drop somethings they break or left out side to long they weather.
3. There are three hearts displayed on the heart map, one under the heart insert and one on each side of the insert.
4. There are three hearts located adjacent to each other at a specific location in the depository area defined by the horse map.
5. The horse of the Holy Faith (a large monument denhanced by the hands of mother nature) directs us to the fourth stone map found near the three hearts; it is known as the "R- rock". The horse stone map directs us where to find the "Horse of the Holy Faith monument". The McGee's million $ horse truly exists.
6. The R-rock monument is required in order to solve many of the clues found on the Stone Maps; primarily the Horse Tablet.
My new book of fiction is currently being edited; it will not be too soon for me.
Have a great week!
Ellie B
Another book of fiction, another book of manure to sift out to find the real clues.
It's interesting that you changed Ellie Baba's words before trashing him personally, and then trashed his book before it has been published. Why?
Springfield
Mostly from reading his past posts. There just wacked out stuff like bb, or maybe he graduated
from the bb school of Wack, He's a jumper, they won't buy that, maybe the'll buy this or maybe that. The days of selling snake oil will end for EB and his good friend Joe,( At least for the day)
I was trying to look on google yesterday and didnt know that it posted to tnet. All i knew was i had to ty p e the word twice. Thanks for the info though.
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