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  1. #106

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,607
    780 times

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Beth,

    Unless the rules have changed since 2004, campfires are allowed in the Superstions. That would depend on the conditions in the area you are camping. If there are any questions about that, I would suggest you contact Scott at:

    J. Scott Wood
    Forest Archaeologist / Heritage Program Manager
    Tonto National Forest
    2324 E. McDowell Road, Phoenix, AZ 85006
    voice: (602) 225-5231 FAX: (602) 225-5295
    swood01@fs.fed.us



    In that respect, he has seen too many bodies, over the years, hauled out of the mountains over foolish theories that are not based in reality/history.

    Take care,

    Joe

  2. #107
    us
    Jan 2008
    Black Hills of South Dakota
    Tesoro Lobo & Garrett Stinger
    4,167
    67 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    This past year, 3 different areas we went to - including the Tortilla spot, had new "no ground fires" posters. (not no fires, no ground fires), with this big old explanation of how it was ruining the environment. There was one at Tortilla, one at Fish Creek and one somewhere else, can't remember which.

    Going to the "fire restriction" site for Tonto, I see they were lifted on July 22nd of this year.

    Fire restrictions lifted on Tonto National Forest; fireworks prohibited at all times
    PHOENIX, Ariz. (July 20, 2011) All campfire and smoking restrictions affecting the Tonto National Forest are being lifted, effective 8 a.m., Friday, July 22.


    We always carry a hobo stove for the times when there are major fire restrictions.

    However, the environmental groups are trying to make the campfires (ground fires) illegal, the statement they put out is as follows: (and this is a shortened version of the document they put out, since they are even more long-winded than me)

    Due to the fragile nature of the desert environment, the study should include the availability of campfire fuel resources in the upland Desert Zones.

    Fires are currently permitted in the Superstition Wilderness, and inventory strongly reflected this allowance. The issue and potential restrictions related to campfires will continue to be a concern.

    Vegetative damage is always a consideration in the backcountry, and is usually an indicator of firewood collection. About 1/3 of all sites in the Superstition Wilderness Area had vegetative damage, including tree and shrub damage.


    There is alot more figures, but their bottom line was:

    The relationship between campfire fuel availability, fuel gathering and cacti damage should be further evaluated. In most cases, campfires should be restricted.

    So - yes, you can normally have a campfire - but, you need to watch the fire restrictions (which, by the way, is always triggered by 3 consecutive days of 100 degrees or more - as per the FS), and whenever they think its too dry or whatever during other parts of the year, but, you have to know where, when and if that "right" is applicable to your time there.

    Beth

    "Irony is the rule"

  3. #108
    us
    Apr 2008
    Central California
    4,016
    8 times

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Quote Originally Posted by mrs.oroblanco

    "Vegetative damage is always a consideration in the backcountry, and is usually an indicator of firewood collection. About 1/3 of all sites in the Superstition Wilderness Area had vegetative damage, including tree and shrub damage.

    "The relationship between campfire fuel availability, fuel gathering and cacti damage should be further evaluated. In most cases, campfires should be restricted."



    Whoever cuts green trees, green shrubs, or green cacti to build a fire, is going to have a cold night.

    That just sounds goofy.

    An evil group is comprised of the insane, who, out of fear, imagine that they must conspire to destroy those who are honest and able. A good group is made up of honest people, who could each survive on their own, yet work together openly for betterment for themselves and others.

  4. #109

    Nov 2006
    601
    1 times

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Quote Originally Posted by EE THr
    Quote Originally Posted by mrs.oroblanco

    "Vegetative damage is always a consideration in the backcountry, and is usually an indicator of firewood collection. About 1/3 of all sites in the Superstition Wilderness Area had vegetative damage, including tree and shrub damage.

    "The relationship between campfire fuel availability, fuel gathering and cacti damage should be further evaluated. In most cases, campfires should be restricted."

    Whoever cuts green trees, green shrubs, or green cacti to build a fire, is going to have a cold night.

    That just sounds goofy.
    That usually happens when the panic sets in, after they find out their "environmentally friendly" solar stove isn't working....

  5. #110
    um
    Nemo me impune lacesset

    Jan 2005
    DAKOTA TERRITORY
    Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
    5,540
    1286 times

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Paul - no need to go back and re-read, I see what you are referring to and yes it does appear to be skating pretty close to the edges. I will watch what I say in future.

    I have never visited Adolph Ruth's campsite but would like to ask a question of those who have; did Ruth have a camp fire? Just curious, but it would tell us something if he had a campfire, that there was time for it. I have looked at photos of his camp but can't tell for sure if he had a fire or not. Thank you in advance.
    Roy

    SUPPORT THE BEEF INDUSTRY - EAT BEEF
    "We must find a way, or we will make one."--Hannibal Barca

  6. #111
    us
    TerrySoloman.com

    May 2010
    Congress, AZ - White Plains, NY
    Tesoro Cult Member - Tejon; Sand Shark; Lobo Super Traq; Vaquero; Cibola; Compadre - Minelab GPX 5000
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    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Having grown up in Arizona, and hiked the Superstitions since I was a small boy, I have read this thread with great interest. Whole lot of theories, very few facts. There is gold south, west, east and north of the Superstition range. In 54-years, I never met a soul that could show me gold from the Superstitions. I have participated in several search and recovery operations in the Superstitions, mostly in the 1970's, and I have seen a lot of stupid and greedy people.. just no gold.

    Come on up to the Weaver or Bradshaw mountains if you want gold, or south to Globe, Tucson and Yuma!
    Please visit my Website http://TerrySoloman.com

  7. #112
    us
    TerrySoloman.com

    May 2010
    Congress, AZ - White Plains, NY
    Tesoro Cult Member - Tejon; Sand Shark; Lobo Super Traq; Vaquero; Cibola; Compadre - Minelab GPX 5000
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    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Hello BBM! I take you at your word, as I have lived long enough to understand I do not know everything. Yes, the "possibility" of gold exists EVERYWHERE. As a gold prospector for 40-years, I can tell you that the "probability" of gold in the Superstitions is extremely low, similar to your chances of finding a deposit in New York State - the geology is all wrong!

    After getting out of the Army in 1976, and getting bored as heck working a smoke tower for the Forest Service in Prescott, Arizona, for a few months, I hitchhiked across the country and ended up in the wrong car on the Bronx River Parkway. When I woke up, I was living in White Plains, had five kids, a wife, and lots of bills! I'll never do that again!

    My Dad, Ray Soloman, and his buddy Jack, were really into the Spanish Conquistadors and missionaries. They taught me to read trail signs and such. Over the years, they were quite successful at finding Spanish and religous trail stashes. Your chance of finding Apache stashes from robberies are so much better than finding raw gold in the Superstitions. That, is what most gold fevered folks overlook.

    The Superstition range is the traditional escape route into Mexico for the Apache and even the Yavapai. The bandits from the 1800s used them extensively. Wire gold from the Superstitions? As I said, not very likely - but certainly possible. I congratulate you BBM but I am very skeptical.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindbowman
    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Soloman
    Having grown up in Arizona, and hiked the Superstitions since I was a small boy, I have read this thread with great interest. Whole lot of theories, very few facts. There is gold south, west, east and north of the Superstition range. In 54-years, I never met a soul that could show me gold from the Superstitions. I have participated in several search and recovery operations in the Superstitions, mostly in the 1970's, and I have seen a lot of stupid and greedy people.. just no gold.

    Come on up to the Weaver or Bradshaw mountains if you want gold, or south to Globe, Tucson and Yuma!
    terry if your from white plains , i live up in st lawernce country .. i would like to show you some fine wire gold from the supers ... yes it was found near my site and yes it is fine wire gold .. be my guest and stop in, i would be more then willing to show you this sample ..if your in white plains now why did you move up here if you dont mind me asking ?

    i live in Heuvelton , ny ,20 miles southwest from Ogdensburg , i dont think there is gold at my site i know there is .fact .and yes i do have a sample . as fine as this wire gold is its the type and fact it is gold that makes it interesting ...one person like you is worth a dozen of those fools ... come and see for your self ...i dont know you and you can judge it for your self ...

    and yes i agree the supers are not the gold mother load . just a pocket deposite ...isolated and very pure ...

    the LDM is real and isolated by it self where no one woulds ever look for gold ..
    Please visit my Website http://TerrySoloman.com

  8. #113
    us
    TerrySoloman.com

    May 2010
    Congress, AZ - White Plains, NY
    Tesoro Cult Member - Tejon; Sand Shark; Lobo Super Traq; Vaquero; Cibola; Compadre - Minelab GPX 5000
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    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Quote Originally Posted by Blindbowman
    you dont hunt any more terry ?..
    Oh sure! http://www.TerrySoloman.com
    Please visit my Website http://TerrySoloman.com

  9. #114
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,687
    1457 times

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Ok Terry, what is it worth to you to keep my big mouth shut on Rice and you ?? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm snicker.


    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  10. #115
    us
    TerrySoloman.com

    May 2010
    Congress, AZ - White Plains, NY
    Tesoro Cult Member - Tejon; Sand Shark; Lobo Super Traq; Vaquero; Cibola; Compadre - Minelab GPX 5000
    5,825
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    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Quote Originally Posted by Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
    Ok Terry, what is it worth to you to keep my big mouth shut on Rice and you ?? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm snicker.


    Don Jose de La Mancha
    LOL! Get in line pal, get in line!
    Please visit my Website http://TerrySoloman.com

  11. #116
    us
    Jun 2010
    Mobile, AL
    MXT Pro
    61
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    In the 16 years that I have lived in Apache Junction and worked/owned the local prospecting store, I have seen gold that has come out of the Superstition's almost every year. I have sent people to Tortilla Creek and Fish Creek and both have gold in them plus many other areas. Now admittedly it is not a great amount and the biggest has been about the size of a pea but it is there. Common sense tells you that it is there!

    Our mineralization belt starts over by Morinci/Clifton and cuts at a 45 degree diagonal across the State towards Kingman and the authorities want you to believe that it jumps or skips from the east side to the west side of the Supserstitions. BS!

  12. #117
    us
    Jan 2008
    Black Hills of South Dakota
    Tesoro Lobo & Garrett Stinger
    4,167
    67 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    I have to do a little "sticking up' for Scott Wood - especially since I have had more than a few words with him.

    First - Scott Wood never told me he didn't think there was gold in the Supes. Everyone and anyone - who has ever spent time in the Supes KNOWS, unequivocably, that, you can pan gold out of the Supes in several places.

    Scott Wood has also spent many years putting up with some of the most asinine and ridiculous "theories" and "facts" - everything from ghost indians to the Peralta Stones, to gold falling from the skies and dinosaurs coming from a time portal.

    He has, for years, put up and checked out an infinite number of these claims, and, with even the slightest bit of "proof" has given MANY, the benefit of the doubt.

    God knows, he has listened to me - AND, has, proven to ME, PERSONALLY, why he has doubts. It is unbelievable some of the stuff that the man has been subjected to.

    He has even come on this website - to this forum - to discuss, personally, things that he has been told and some of the things he has found.

    Scott is NOT anti-mining, he is NOT anti-treasure hunting - and, he is NOT a skeptic that there may, indeed, be things that have not been found, and, he would actually ENJOY good proof, good evidence and even maybe a new find.

    He DOES insist on straight stories, straight evidence, good pictures, (not Google Earth) good reasoning, and that the person who comes to see him has really had experience with boots on the ground.

    If you really think that this is a man who has dedicated his life to making sure that nobody has access to anything, than you do not know Scott Wood.

    Beth
    "Irony is the rule"

  13. #118

    Dec 2005
    Arizona
    5,607
    780 times

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Beth,

    You are right on concerning Scott. He's a good man trying to do a, often, thankless job. Many people in the area know him, and he is well respected.

    Take care,

    Joe

  14. #119
    mx
    Nov 2004
    Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
    10,687
    1457 times

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    OHIO Beth & cactus: I personally have never met him, but from what and how he posted in here, I am behind him 100% and have so stated. I even managed to get a few skirmishes in on his behalf, as if he needed any help..

    Don Jose de La Mancha
    "I exist to live, not live to exist"

  15. #120
    Charter Member
    om
    Jan 2006
    SoCal
    Modded SD2000 / XTerra70 / Fisher Gemini /
    4,081
    724 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting

    Re: The Lost Gold Mine of Jacob Waltz, not Peralta stones related

    Joe and Beth,

    We are in complete agreement here. While I haven't met him face to face, I have corresponded with him many times on several subjects. He has been a wealth of information for me, and given me an introduction to USFS folks down South of there. The man has held his job in Tonto for almost thirty years now, and been exploring the area for ten years before that. I don't think you'll find many folks more knowledgeable than him on the area.

    As to why he would tell people such things; the reasons are endless. No matter his personal beliefs on the LDM, Stone Maps, Jesuit Treasure, Caves of gold bars, etc, his first job is as an Archaeologist. He wants to protect Tonto's Archaeological Resources from people (erstwhile treasure hunters usually) that might deface an Indian Panel thinking they are hiding some LDM Clue from other treasure hunters (how many times do you think that has already happened?), find an Indian Dwelling and start digging holes under it looking for caches, etc. I am sure he also doesn't want tenderfeet wandering off into the back country of the Supers hunting the LDM (or whatever) if he doesn't feel they are knowledgeable enough about wilderness survival (four LDM hunters dead in the last two years). Still any wonder why none of the Park Rangers or Archaeologists will tell you anything other than "move along, nothing to look at here." LOL

    Scott is a very good guy, and more open than most about treasure hunting (as long as he sees you have some common sense wrapped around that lust for gold).

    Mike
    Check out 1ORO1.COM

 

 
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