The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[mrs.oroblanco]

Coazon,

That's the problem with the dialects in Spanish - in MY world, its a bay. Colorado is a reddish color - chestnut, sorrel type.

Beth

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

No pintos?? Mi lovely, sexy, mule was a pinta. I think that your-alls are getting sided tracked..

When are you and Beth going to dance the dance of the seven veils?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Hal Croves]

Cubfan64

I took those photographs myself in Painter's Cave - Peter's Canyon. I have asked officials to investigate and to attempt a dating, but they claim that it is just a play of light. I did not discover the writing, but someone with me did. The writing is important, as are Painter's Geoglyphs, and the Geoglyphs that I have found. They tell a much larger truth.

El Bayo are you an old friend? What snakes in the grass? Did you show me Painter's geoglyphs or was it a trusted friend? Post a picture of them if you know where they are!

 

[Cubfan64]

Cubfan64

I took those photographs myself in Painter's Cave - Peter's Canyon. I have asked officials to investigate and to attempt a dating, but they claim that it is just a play of light. I did not discover the writing, but someone with me did. The writing is important, as are Painter's Geoglyphs, and the Geoglyphs that I have found. They tell a much larger truth.

El Bayo are you an old friend? What snakes in the grass? Did you show me Painter's geoglyphs or was it a trusted friend? Post a picture of them if you know where they are!

Hal - good deal. Kurt let me know yesterday that you were authorized to use the photos, so if it's cool with him, that's all that matters. Sorry if I implied you were doing something unethical or dishonest, I was just surprised to see the same photos show up in a couple different locations about the same time and didn't want someone to be screwed out of the credit for them.

For what it's worth, I can see the E very clearly and the L pretty clearly as well. Beyond that, I struggle to pick out any specific letters. I suppose I'd want to see it in person to say they are definitely not a play of light, but from the photo they appear to be real.

 

[EL BAYO]

Hal I wish to save the symbols. People will have to wait to see them. Yes I am a old friend. I like you want to share what has been found. Be careful what we have found to gather is the only for sure truth ever found and the forest service are not friends.email me

 

[Hal Croves]

I would say that the Forest Service is doing their job. If anyone should have issue with them, it would be me. My experience trying to obtain support for a film permit was less then positive. More important is that the story is told, and that proof is shown. This is a good place to spend time learning, exchanging ideas and sharing discoveries. The symbols are important. I hope that you share what you have.

OK. These geoglyphs are next to one of the mines on the Horse Stone. Everyone of the mines on that stone have a trail that goes right to it... and geoglyphs.
View attachment 548696

 

[Gossamer]

What an entertaining read this Superstition Lies. I love the finding a spoon with 1847 stamped on the back, uh' well Rodger Bros is a company that has been around for a very long time, on the back they usually stamp the date the design first came out. My silverware is stamped 1881, but I know that this particular set came out in 1942.
I got the snake in the grass ref. interesting tell.
Janiece

 

[Cubfan64]

Hal - just out of curiosity, what reason does the Forest Service have for even being involved in issuing permits for filming?? I've heard that mentioned before by other people but I can't for the life of me understand why the government needs to approve someone filming out in the Superstition Mountains??

 

[EE THr]

Hal - just out of curiosity, what reason does the Forest Service have for even being involved in issuing permits for filming?? I've heard that mentioned before by other people but I can't for the life of me understand why the government needs to approve someone filming out in the Superstition Mountains??

That's a good point. Isn't filming the same as "looking"? Which is about all that's allowed there.

Maybe they think that a big production crew will litter the place up? Or that with lots of people milling around, they won't be able to keep track of exactly what they are doing (maybe digging)?

The same goes for the fly-overs. What harm do they suppose that would cause? Maybe they think it would add to the Search And Rescue missions necessary, if a plane went down?

Of course, even if some of those possible reasons are what they are thinking, that's still "Pre-Crime" policing, and that's just wrong.

 

[Blindbowman]

Hal - just out of curiosity, what reason does the Forest Service have for even being involved in issuing permits for filming?? I've heard that mentioned before by other people but I can't for the life of me understand why the government needs to approve someone filming out in the Superstition Mountains??

That's a good point. Isn't filming the same as "looking"? Which is about all that's allowed there.

Maybe they think that a big production crew will litter the place up? Or that with lots of people milling around, they won't be able to keep track of exactly what they are doing (maybe digging)?

The same goes for the fly-overs. What harm do they suppose that would cause? Maybe they think it would add to the Search And Rescue missions necessary, if a plane went down?

Of course, even if some of those possible reasons are what they are thinking, that's still "Pre-Crime" policing, and that's just wrong.

i think i read something to the nature of legal rights to make money from a fedral park or useing the fedral part for person gain .. if they let one group do it they would have to let all of them do it .. and it would in time effect the parks ablities to care for the park . it is a wilderness area .. we can change that with out a real good reason .. sorry but it was voted in to law and if we are not in agreement with the law now . we can only vote it out .. but parks are parks and that most likely wont happen in the near future unless there is a native culture site found in the park in fact a secert Aztec site could do it faster then any thing else ...

 

[Gossamer]

These BLM policies are (to me) censorship.
I as my wise friend Cubfan said 'have no dog in the game' or something like that.. sorry Cubby. I come to this party with no pre-set ideas about what is out there or not.
I read as much as possible, I'm fascinated by the stories, but that is all, I have never studied the stones, just buy every book on my home town that comes out.
I think all of the ones contributing have a great voice and good story, I not fond of the secret screen names or the triple appearances some seem to think are necessary and will bust anyone I figure out contributing to that.
One thing that screams out to me is that some believe that 'their' own interpretations or intentions are the most important, personally I don't care who or if something is found.
I like the stories, the struggle, the exchange... don't stop throwing things out just because others may not agree with what you present, this is just a stage, as is all the world.
I ran the writings through a really simple matrix and have been chuckling for days now at the results. Later I will toss them out there for your entertainment. Its just one interpretation.
Janiece

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I would just like to interject here - The Superstitions is NOT a park. Yes, we have the Lost Dutchman State Park, but the rest of the designation like we are talking about - is that the Superstitions are a designated wilderness. (no, not every acre, but, a big part of it).


We never voted anything in - these are all regulations from NON-voted in people. We do not vote for the head of BLM or anyone else, they are all appointed. (and, we cannot vote them out).

Calling the Supes a "park" is a bad habit to get into - we need to call it what it is - and not give anyone any ideas on making it a park.

And, to answer another point - "if we let some, we would have to let all" - is, like most things political - incorrect. There are people in this country that are allowed to do anything they darn well please - even though us, the regular citizens, cannot.

With enough money, and the right connections, you can have car races across "protected" deserts, vice-presidents can go hunting in sanctuaries, and folks who have the right connections can film, drive, or do whatever - in places that you and I would go to jail for.

However, there is one thing the citizens always get to do ------ we get to pay for it.

I don't know if I would call it "censorship", but, I would call it some other things - like, illegal. Imagine buying a house, and then having to pay to sleep there for the rest of your life. Well, that is how I see the way "they" treat us, and our public lands. Like I have said many times, including to some government officials - they do not own it, though they think they do - their job is the equivalent of "janitors and maintenence" - but that's not how they all act.

Beth

 

[EL BAYO]

Hal I got those photo's taken care of I will post them this week end.do you still have the copy I sent you? Si monumentum requiris circumspice

 

[Gossamer]

Beth, I agree wholeheartedly (no pun intended)!
BLM is a greedy monster, and while they do some good works, their aggressive acquisitions bother me.
I've mentioned before that I collect maps, just as a fun hobby, it started with bible maps... long story.
I ran across an old National Geo map of "Federal Lands" and then a more recent one... I was shocked at the amount of land the Feds own in the Western US and most alarming the amount of lands most are not allowed to even go on, including old trails and sites.
You are simply turned back either by fencing, signs or agents.
Since for me everything connects to books in my world, its censorship to me.
Janiece
Interesting quote El Bayo.

 

[Hal Croves]

El Bayo - I never got the images.

A word about the film permit. Any commercial use of the Wilderness Area needs to be approved and permited by Tonto Forest officials. In my case, an official with Tonto Forest manipulated my request and after consulting with an attorney, it seems that this person was in violation of Federal law and my first amendment rights. I do not want to go into the details, however officials do not want this story told. My guess is that they fear the rush of illegal prospectors who might damage the SWA. They are correct in wanting to protect it, but their head-in-the-sand-position regarding gold and the LDM is why people continue to go missing. It would not take much to require LDM hunters to sign in, leaving a destination and travel plans. We do it here in the East.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Signing in wouldn't help.

No treasure hunter worth his salt is EVER going to put on paper, where he is going.


Gossamer:

While you are looking at maps, look at the way they are trying to make things disappear, too. Now, my older maps are worth a fortune, to us.
The newer maps have mine tunnels and shafts erased, old trails erased, water wells - natural and otherwise - taken off. You can buy "overlays", one for the missing trails, one for the water, etc. - but even those are not complete.

The day of reckoning will come when someone falls into one of the mines that are no longer marked on the maps, and manages to get back out and sues the heck out of the mapmakers.

Then the poop will hit the oscillating blades, because either they will be found to be complicit in causing harm to a citizen, or else, they will try to stop even hiking.

Beth

 

[somehiker]

Wayne the drawing is part of my doubts about its authenticity... certainly no 'priest' would depict another in this manner, not after the witch trials.
Also, the 'times' or 1848 is an era of much interest in the Freemasons.
I don't buy that any Mason (I'm the daughter of a Master Mason) would allow something associated with them have a cartoonish charactor or mispellings.
Also, reading the census of Arizona I read in one of them that Ehrenburg, pardon the mispelling LOL, was a 'stone man'. That was his profession.
My computer went belly up, so I don't have it at my fingertip. But made a mental note of it.
I'm also still digesting the Starr connection, I believe their is a misdirection regarding that.
Janiece

Janiece:
I don't think that there was ever any intention that the figure on the stone should be seen to be a "witch".Nor do I believe that it was a Priest who carved the original stone.I have yet to see any depiction of a witch pointing a cross or wearing one upon his sleeve.
If you care to read a little further back in history,you might look into a gentleman known as "the Witch Bishop".He and his faithful followers made the Calvinists of Salem look like amateurs.I also have been having trouble locating a pre 1967 illustration of a male witch (wizzard) wearing such a hat.Plenty with brimless conical hats and a couple with drooping brims,but nothing like that of the person on the stone.Many of the works of DeGrazia feature Navaho men with identical hats to the one on the stone,one reason I once thought DG might have carved that particular stone.I also agree that they were not carved by a Mason,partly for the same reasons.

Regards:Wayne

 

[Cubfan64]

The day of reckoning will come when someone falls into one of the mines that are no longer marked on the maps, and manages to get back out and sues the heck out of the mapmakers.

Beth - I understand why you would say that, but do you honestly think if that ever happened the government would really lose that lawsuit?

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Cubfan,

No - I don't think they would lose. But, they have lost one or two times. I remember when Pennsylvania decided that all navigable waters belonged to the state, and you couldn't even take a river rock off your own stream on your own land.

My girlfriend and some others lived by the river, and it flooded, and ruined some really expensive stuff. They got together and sued the state - it was their water - and won. The state appealed - the state lost. So, they ended up paying the homeowners.

Here, in Wyoming and South Dakota - if a wild animal ruins something of yours - or kills one of your animals - the fish and game department pay for that damage.

But, you know, and I know, some day - someone, using those newer maps - is going to get hurt or die depending on them.

Tell me, have you checked out geo-communicator lately - they are "down-sizing" their available information. The government does not want us on their land. (saying their land 'tongue in cheek).

Beth

 

[Blindbowman]

Cubfan,

No - I don't think they would lose. But, they have lost one or two times. I remember when Pennsylvania decided that all navigable waters belonged to the state, and you couldn't even take a river rock off your own stream on your own land.

My girlfriend and some others lived by the river, and it flooded, and ruined some really expensive stuff. They got together and sued the state - it was their water - and won. The state appealed - the state lost. So, they ended up paying the homeowners.

Here, in Wyoming and South Dakota - if a wild animal ruins something of yours - or kills one of your animals - the fish and game department pay for that damage.

But, you know, and I know, some day - someone, using those newer maps - is going to get hurt or die depending on them.

Tell me, have you checked out geo-communicator lately - they are "down-sizing" their available information. The government does not want us on their land. (saying their land 'tongue in cheek).

Beth

i could not agree with you more beth .. this is not the goverments land they dont own land .. we the people do . and it sure dont look that way any more .. its up to us to reclaim controll of what they should be takeing care of under the guide lines we set for them .. they have no legal right to even call the land theirs . its not ..

and i corrected charts . you are very right .. some will end up injured or dead from the lack of upgraded maps .. it happends all the time at sea when charts are not corrected ...the Us Navy corrects charts 24/7 ...yet here we see them not willing to correct maps on land ,,, this is by design ..

its up to us to expoler and map the mt range our selfs . and if the goverment dose not agree then its up toi us to remind them who they work for ..."we the people"

in fact jesse maybe a victum of the goverments lack of control over the supers maping and safty .. we are told to inter the mts and if we leave the mark trails we do so at our own risk . but if the maps are not up dated or correct at the fault of the goverment . then we are not at risk from the mts . we are at risk from poor land mangment by the goverment ..our state parks and wilderness areas have very little money to control at the state level . our goverments poor control and use of founds beyond their legal control have been used with out the people haveing any thing to say about what the money was spent on . now we face the bills of poor govermental control .. a few bad apples have cause a unbalance it will take many many years to correct .. its as almost as foolish as the mexican wall idea .. we go to a nother country and fight to remove a wal yet we want to build one here .. thats childish ..and it will not work ..

we need to reach a level of local public law that all countries share a common law for the people of all countries there would be no reason for a wall if mexicans can come and go as they wish and iif we can not open out culture are we not the one traped behind the wall ...?