The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[peralta]

Hello my friends, looking is good it's not the peralta, but could be another site. Good luck and don't buy the twenty-six dollar book.people will write to make money.wait for my book. I'll only write it till after I take out first one and prove it by showing treasure in front of book.

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[peralta]

Hello my friends, looking is good it's not the peralta, but could be another site. Good luck and don't buy the twenty-six dollar book.people will write to make money.wait for my book. I'll only write it till after I take out first one and prove it by showing treasure in front of book.

[393stroker]

I believe that the stones are real. I`ve been studying them,and using google earth for a few weeks now, and I believe that I`ve found the location. I guess I got lucky on the first attempt. I started to find pieces of the puzzle that fit and was getting excited every time I found another clue. Now I`ve calmed down and when I find clues to more finer details I figure that`s another one I can check off. The maps were made by someone in the mountains transcribing what terraian features that they saw, and clues to keep them heading in the right direction. With enough riddles to keep the unknowing confused. The maps are of areas that are miles apart and in close vicinity. I wish that Jim Hatt was still with us, I would show him what I found. I was able to confirm my theory by using his posts on this and other sites. The next step to the quest is to put the boots to work.

[skumpa]

Hello again:

If you read my last thread, and went to the boulder with fin written on it, you will also see a heart cut out in the upper left corner of that boulder. Also the f in fin also closely resembles the F in the lower stone map. I can't help wondering if you place the heart stone ( which is way smaller than the cut out) if it would end up in the spot I described. Also the cut out's point, points to the N. Does anybody have a response?

Scott

[393stroker]

I think I found what you mean. It looks like a shadow in the shape of a heart.

[skumpa]

Hello:

Where did everybody go? I hope you guys aren't diggin the gold up without me?


Scott

[Advocat]

Complete newbie to the forum and discussion, and I have no opinion as to whether the Stone Maps are real or not, etc. However, been thinking about the size/weight of them. Not practical to carry stuff like that around when one needs all one's packs to carry water, food, tools, ammo, and still have room left to bring back treasure. So maybe the Maps were being created in the field on that particular expedition, with the intent to bring them back to be stored somewhere close to home (a church, a cave, a vault) so as to have a solid record (that could not be burned, destroyed by water, etc.) for future use. As such, they could be copied onto paper or the like for use on expeditions while the originals stayed in a safe place. Just a thought.

[Some Dude]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Whatever the Peralta Stones lead to (if anything) HOW did someone ever come to the conclusion that they should lead to the LDM? I mean, of the several Peralta \ Gonzales mines in the Superstitions -> how is it that the Peralta Stones would lead to ONLY the LDM?

I submit -> because Waltz lived as a virtual pauper, whatever the LDM contained, it was NOT the “richest mine in the entire world”. In other words; the proof is in the pudding – and Waltz didn’t have it. That’s a matter of historical record. We can banter about Waltz’s tax records showing that he was not absolutely destitute, but my POINT is that he certainly was not ‘well to do’ (especially for someone who owned the richest mine in the world). I’m saying if Waltz had the ‘richest mine’, then show me the money….. but it ain’t there. And that has been something that has perplexed DH’ers from the beginning.

From my understanding, there are two veins in the one tunnel. One is 18” and of above average ore concentration. The other vein is 2” and is where we get the matchbox sample. Bottom line, the LDM is probably one of the poorer mines (in terms of potential output) in the entire Peralta \ Gonzales complex. From the physical descriptions we have, it is certainly one of the smallest. So WHY would the Peralta Stones lead to that particular mine when there are other mines in the Superstitions that are definitely larger and, in all probably, contain more ore (especially in terms of total output)?

To me, IF the P\S are legitimate, then whatever they lead to – it wouldn’t be the LDM.

Just rambling with my 2 cents,
Some Dude

[Dirty Dutchman]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Whatever the Peralta Stones lead to (if anything) HOW did someone ever come to the conclusion that they should lead to the LDM? I mean, of the several Peralta \ Gonzales mines in the Superstitions -> how is it that the Peralta Stones would lead to ONLY the LDM?

I submit -> because Waltz lived as a virtual pauper, whatever the LDM contained, it was NOT the “richest mine in the entire world”. In other words; the proof is in the pudding – and Waltz didn’t have it. That’s a matter of historical record. We can banter about Waltz’s tax records showing that he was not absolutely destitute, but my POINT is that he certainly was not ‘well to do’ (especially for someone who owned the richest mine in the world). I’m saying if Waltz had the ‘richest mine’, then show me the money….. but it ain’t there. And that has been something that has perplexed DH’ers from the beginning.

From my understanding, there are two veins in the one tunnel. One is 18” and of above average ore concentration. The other vein is 2” and is where we get the matchbox sample. Bottom line, the LDM is probably one of the poorer mines (in terms of potential output) in the entire Peralta \ Gonzales complex. From the physical descriptions we have, it is certainly one of the smallest. So WHY would the Peralta Stones lead to that particular mine when there are other mines in the Superstitions that are definitely larger and, in all probably, contain more ore (especially in terms of total output)?

To me, IF the P\S are legitimate, then whatever they lead to – it wouldn’t be the LDM.

Just rambling with my 2 cents,
Some Dude

Some Dude

Waltz was not poor. He might have lived that way, but the proof is actually "in the pudding" as you put it. The "pudding" would be the $4800 worth of gold that Dick Holmes turned in after the death of Waltz. That $4800 was equivalent to about $380,000 in today's worth.... If I was 80 years old, my house was paid for, I didn't pay taxes (because my house was on the "school lot" which I could never legally own), and I traded the food I grew on my farm for things I needed, I feel like I'd have enough money to live on for the rest of my life. And very well....

There are many theories as to why Waltz never "claimed" the mine. In my opinion, there are only two possible theories that make sense. One is the "Reavis Land Fraud" fiasco that was going on at the time, even well after Waltz' death. People all over the valley were paying Reavis HUGE sums of money because of his false claims. Maybe Waltz didn't want to share it..??

The other theory, and the one I personally believe, is that Waltz made a "handshake" agreement with The Mexicans to take out the original 30k he and his partner were promised, PLUS a satisfactory profit. There is a letter that supports this theory. I believe Waltz was an honest man, and stuck to the original deal he had made with the Mexicans. He took out enough money so he wouldn't have to work anymore. History supports this also. Waltz had worked (hard) mining his whole life, then suddenly quit, with no explanation. That is until he was old.... That's when he told his close friends about the mine. Waltz knew by now that the Mexicans would probably never get to come back for their mine, so he wanted his friends to share in it.

Just my opinion.
Thanks
Travis

[Some Dude]

Hi Travis,

Excellent point - Waltz may have made a handshake deal with the Mexicans to limit his take to $30k plus satisfactory profit. If that is what happened, then it would explain why Waltz lifestyle was ‘less than opulent’ (as one would expect from the owner of the world’s richest gold mine). That would also explain why Waltz did not return to the mine repeatedly – as Sims claims. I personally don’t follow that version because of the historical inaccuracies (Like Waltz and Weiser enlisting in the Confederate Army) – but that’s just my personal choice, doesn’t mean that I’m right.

The Reavis Land Fraud is a possibility as to why Waltz would never file a claim. But I think it equally possible that Waltz never filed a claim on the mine because he shot the Mexican miners (Holmes Version). So, as the saying goes “you pay your money and you take your pick.”

I admit the idea that the LDM is NOT “the richest gold mine in the entire world” is a supposition on my part and it is secondary to my main question which is -> With several Peralta \ Gonzales mines in the Superstitions, WHY would the Peralta Stones point out the LDM mine?

All,
I understand that not everyone thinks the P\S go to the LDM. So I will pose this question to those who do believe they are a map to the LDM. WHY the LDM? There are several other mines that may (or may not) have greater potential for gold.

Best,
Some Dude

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hi Travis,

Excellent point - Waltz may have made a handshake deal with the Mexicans to limit his take to $30k plus satisfactory profit. If that is what happened, then it would explain why Waltz lifestyle was ‘less than opulent’ (as one would expect from the owner of the world’s richest gold mine). That would also explain why Waltz did not return to the mine repeatedly – as Sims claims. I personally don’t follow that version because of the historical inaccuracies (Like Waltz and Weiser enlisting in the Confederate Army) – but that’s just my personal choice, doesn’t mean that I’m right.

The Reavis Land Fraud is a possibility as to why Waltz would never file a claim. But I think it equally possible that Waltz never filed a claim on the mine because he shot the Mexican miners (Holmes Version). So, as the saying goes “you pay your money and you take your pick.”

I admit the idea that the LDM is NOT “the richest gold mine in the entire world” is a supposition on my part and it is secondary to my main question which is -> With several Peralta \ Gonzales mines in the Superstitions, WHY would the Peralta Stones point out the LDM mine?

All,
I understand that not everyone thinks the P\S go to the LDM. So I will pose this question to those who do believe they are a map to the LDM. WHY the LDM? There are several other mines that may (or may not) have greater potential for gold.

Best,
Some Dude

Some Dude,

Its true, there are some "holes" in the story. But, I believe that "army" part was pure BS made to sell a story book. I'd like to see the "REAL" Bark notes.... I would bet they look like NOTES instead of stories....

I believe the ITALICIZED words in the Holmes Manusctipt... And NOTHING else. Why? Because that's probably all that Waltz said on his deathbed. The "proof" for me was how the story in the Manuscript starts out. You're asking me to believe that Waltz... A cold blooded Killer... Who even killed his own nephew.........

Let 3 Indians armed ONLY WITH BOW AND ARROWS take everything he owned in the world..... BUT NEVER FIRED ONE SHOT..??...... I call BS. No way you take everything I own and I don't fire a shot at you. Especially if you only have a bow.....

Now THAT version has some serious holes in it.
Thanks
Travis

[natchitoches]

if thay took everthing he owned ,he would not have a gun right.

[Dirty Dutchman]

if thay took everthing he owned ,he would not have a gun right.

Well, according to that BS story, the only thing Waltz was able to get away with was his gun.... But he didn't use it until he met the friendly Mexicans who gave him food, showed him their rich gold mine (evidently just because he looked so trustworthy), and offered him to ride back to town with them.... What a crock...

Thanks
Travis

[Advocat]

.... Let 3 Indians armed ONLY WITH BOW AND ARROWS take everything he owned in the world..... BUT NEVER FIRED ONE SHOT..??...... I call BS. No way you take everything I own and I don't fire a shot at you. Especially if you only have a bow.....Travis

Just a small point. Haven't read the source -- does the source say the Indians were only armed with bows and arrows? If not, don't think I'd assume the Indians had only bows and arrows, they were pretty well armed with rifles at that point in time. And even if armed with bows and arrows, they were right deadly with those.

[Dirty Dutchman]

Just a small point. Haven't read the source -- does the source say the Indians were only armed with bows and arrows? If not, don't think I'd assume the Indians had only bows and arrows, they were pretty well armed with rifles at that point in time. And even if armed with bows and arrows, they were right deadly with those.

A

Yes, according to the Holmes Manuscript, the Indians were only armed with Bows. No rifles.... And I bet Waltz was also a pretty good shot by that time so.....

The truth comes down to Dick lying about the reason Waltz gave him the gold and the REAL directions. Dick didn't want to share, so he made up a story......(my opinion)

Thanks
Travis

[Some Dude]

Some Dude,

Let 3 Indians armed ONLY WITH BOW AND ARROWS take everything he owned in the world..... BUT NEVER FIRED ONE SHOT..??...... I call BS. No way you take everything I own and I don't fire a shot at you. Especially if you only have a bow.....

Hi Travis,

I don’t know how much stock to put in Glover’s Holmes Manuscript, BUT it’s the best thing we have to work with. In The Holmes Manuscript page 48 Waltz said; “The Apaches came running toward my camp….. so I grabbed my rifle and let them have it.”

Maybe Waltz was a bad shot, maybe the Apache used rocks for cover. According to Holmes Waltz (supposedly) said ‘rifle’ but I believe he had a double barrel shotgun. If that’s the case, you want some distance between you and your adversary before you shoot both barrels. Maybe the Apache capitalized on that… two rushed him while one grabbed his mule. The fact is – I simply don’t know.

Could Holmes be making the whole story up? Possibly. Could the story have been changed over time or by ‘artistic license’ journalism? Absolutely and I would say probably.


Are there elements of truth in the Holmes Manuscript? Undoubtedly. I pretty much treat every 'clue' as suspect until I have seen it with my own eyes.

Best,

SD

[Some Dude]

Hi Travis,

Just thinking about your theory on Holmes lying because he didn’t want to share. Looking (historically) at how Holmes treated the info that Waltz told him about the LDM, your theory makes sense.

I guess the only way to confirm the authenticity of (at least one section) of Holmes’ version would be to discover the graves where Waltz buried the Mexicans. According to Holmes, Waltz buried the Mexicans “close to their camp” which would be about ¼ mile DOWN the canyon from the mine. Holmes says the mine was ¼ mile UP the canyon from the camp.

I personally believe the terrain going UP to the mine is nearly impassable and (as per Sims) so rough that “you have to go in on foot”. This would mean that Holmes is less than forthright in his version.

Best,
SD

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hi Travis,

I don’t know how much stock to put in Glover’s Holmes Manuscript, BUT it’s the best thing we have to work with. In The Holmes Manuscript page 48 Waltz said; “The Apaches came running toward my camp….. so I grabbed my rifle and let them have it.”

Maybe Waltz was a bad shot, maybe the Apache used rocks for cover. According to Holmes Waltz (supposedly) said ‘rifle’ but I believe he had a double barrel shotgun. If that’s the case, you want some distance between you and your adversary before you shoot both barrels. Maybe the Apache capitalized on that… two rushed him while one grabbed his mule. The fact is – I simply don’t know.

Could Holmes be making the whole story up? Possibly. Could the story have been changed over time or by ‘artistic license’ journalism? Absolutely and I would say probably.


Are there elements of truth in the Holmes Manuscript? Undoubtedly. I pretty much treat every 'clue' as suspect until I have seen it with my own eyes.

Best,

SD

SD

EXACTLY what I've been saying!! Take a sheet of paper and write down ONLY the italicized (or quoted) words. THAT'S what Waltz said on his deathbed. Nothing else.

Thanks
Travis

[Some Dude]

Hi Travis,

I guess that't where I'm lost. I have a first edition \ first printing of Glover's The Holmes Manuscript and there is nothing italicized in Waltz's death bed confession and everything Waltz says is in quotation marks.

Best,
Ed

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hi Travis,

I guess that't where I'm lost. I have a first edition \ first printing of Glover's The Holmes Manuscript and there is nothing italicized in Waltz's death bed confession and everything Waltz says is in quotation marks.

Best,
Ed

Ed,

I don't think your lost at all. Just write down what Waltz said, and ONLY the words that are in quotations. I think you'll find that a lot of the what you think "Waltz said" will be eliminated.

For example.....

"a rock-standing in the brush-it looks like a man" when I first saw it... Blah blah blah

The part about "when I first saw it".... Isn't quoted or italicized in any edition I've seen. The next thing that Waltz actually said was "This is where I always leave the trail".... These are the REAL things Waltz said on his deathbed. And probably all he could get out in a short period of time.

When I get some time I'll write out what I believe the words in the "confession" are.

Again, just my opinion.

Thanks
Travis