reflections of a triangle

[motell6]

page 163,notes of authenticy,thundergodsgold,barry storm, notes he saw a reflected image of a triangle on a cliff face about 3 miles above its bolder canyon junction,image lasted about 10 minutes.

Barry also surmisses that the massacured pedro peralta and his employees left at least a years worth of finished gold stashed someware in the supers.

Is it not curious that Wagners outcropping was described as the same type of gold as the Dutmans,rosequartz with gold studs.

 

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[Loke]

I believe the Dutchman's type was _white_ quartz ... (see numerous pictures of the matchbox)
Wagoner's gold was described as rosequartz.

 

[Oroblanco]

page 163,notes of authenticy,thundergodsgold,barry storm, notes he saw a reflected image of a triangle on a cliff face about 3 miles above its bolder canyon junction,image lasted about 10 minutes.

Barry also surmisses that the massacured pedro peralta and his employees left at least a years worth of finished gold stashed someware in the supers.

Is it not curious that Wagners outcropping was described as the same type of gold as the Dutmans,rosequartz with gold studs.

I know that all the sources on Wagoner's ledge describe it as a rose quartz ore, yet have never figured out where the descriptions of Waltz's ore as a rose quartz originate? The specimens that still exist, which are purportedly from the candlebox under his deathbed, do not resemble rose quartz to my eye.
Here is a pic of the famous match box made from Waltz's ore

compare to a pic of rose quartz ore with gold


Would you call the ore used in the matchbox a rose quartz? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[coazon de oro]

Roy,

The May issue of Desert Magazine of 1945 had an article by Barry Storm with Waltz describing the mine to Julia and Reinhart. I believe it comes from Thunder God's Gold, a book by Barry which I haven't read.

"The shaft went down on an 18" vein of rose quartz studded with pin-head nuggets. Beside it the 3" hanging wall of hematite quartz that was itself 1/3 pure gold."

Homar

 

[motell6]

Homar your right the book describes as you write, Oroblanco your lighter sample looks like rose quartz to me,Loke its quite possible the dutchman had access to both rose and white quartz and maybe a mix of the two....About Wagner,Mullins the stage driver,says he picked up Wagner and dropped him off somewhere near Whitlows ranch. He cashed in his gold in Pinal, and a-lot of it. Although he tried to stay low key,like the dutchman he was followed,but always managed to disappear,which i find amazeing. He gave Mullins a map on his last trip and told him he was working a outcropping,of all rose-gold-quartz...Its possible wagners rose quartz outcropping is somehow connected to the dutchmans.Mullins looked in vain,years latter another old prospecter named ray howland found two very rich pieces of of rose quartz besides a faint trail,maybe ,near wagners outcropping.translated lightly from Barry storms,thunder gods gold.

 

[Oroblanco]

Oldergoate, I have to respectfully disagree. The photo I posted is not the best, it tends to lend a slight reddish cast to the matchbox which is not present. ]

This photo of the cover of Helen Corbin's book shows the colors more true. I would not call this a rose quartz.

The reason I asked where this rose quartz description of Waltz's ore came from is the older sources all call it a white quartz. Likewise, the story of the Doc Thorne vein is a white quartz vein.

<Before someone notifies me that Thorne only saw a pile of gold on the ground and no vein, ask your self this, why then would he have bothered to try to find that place again, if that version is the truth?>

There are other dis-similarities between the Wagoner ledge and the Dutchman too, like the importance of Miners Needle to Wagoner. You can not see Miners Needle from the routes taken by Waltz on his trips we know of, and he went well past it. Wagoner also found the ledge un-concealed and never mentioned any trace of anyone having ever mined it before his finding it, which would be odd as most versions of the Dutchman have the mine already existing before he ever lays eyes on it.

The differences stand out to me, but that is just my opinion. I believe there are at least three and possibly four different gold deposits in the area, all of which are or were rich, and all slightly different. I think this helps keep the mines lost too, for the many different "clues" may well apply to one of the four but not to any of the others, and the "clues" have gotten very well mixed by this point in time. Also, I don't think Barry Storm ever interviewed Julia Thomas, and may not have talked to Reiney for that matter.

Oroblanco

 

[motell6]

Oro,most definitly I stand corrected on your lighters speciman,looks more whiteish on the cover...All the imfo I have says the Dutchmans gold was a one of a kind Rosequartz. Really dont want to discuss the map/location differances as I have various copys,dutchmans/wisers trail/and wagners,others,and I believe they are fairly accurate.Reinhart P. of Globe Ariz. committed suicide in 1943,and Storm did gleen a lot of imformation from him. I dont know how far specific and 1 of a kind veins of gold have been followed underground,but I still think its possible Wagners could find a very common ground match with the Dutchmans .My imfo tells me Dr.Thornes gold the Indians led him to was all rosequartz,friendly disagreement.Like you say,

 

[Springfield]

Benji's Rock Shop in Ouray, CO, (ca 1974) never displayed his colored quartz crystals in the front window. Knowlegable minerals specimen collectors keep their rose quartz protected:

Pink or rose quartz also will fade as we noted in a piece of quartz from Beauregard Mine,
New Hampshire. That material may have been a beautiful pink when first left on a ledge at the
mine years ago, but when discovered the summer of 2008 the mineral had turned to almost a
clear, transparent quartz with just a hint of pink.
http://www.rockandmineral.org/light faded minerals- don kauffman 0110.pdf

Waltz may have had ore under the bed, according to some; if so, possibly the rocks were sitting in the sun before he got them.

 

[somehiker]

Also worthy of consideration.The lighting used to photograph the object can make a big difference.
As demonstrated very well by the series of photos in this post.....
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,412805.msg3097393.html#msg3097393


Regards:SH.

 

[somehiker]

page 163,notes of authenticy,thundergodsgold,barry storm, notes he saw a reflected image of a triangle on a cliff face about 3 miles above its bolder canyon junction,image lasted about 10 minutes.

Barry also surmisses that the massacured pedro peralta and his employees left at least a years worth of finished gold stashed someware in the supers.

Is it not curious that Wagners outcropping was described as the same type of gold as the Dutmans,rosequartz with gold studs.

OG:

To me,it sounds like Storm may have seen the sun's reflection from a triangular pool of water projecting a bright triangle onto the cliff face.In ten minutes the sun's position could have changed enough,so that the reflection would vanish.Someone who believed in such "signs".....did Storm ?.....might waste a lot of time chasing shadows and similar reflections out there.

Regards:SH.

 

[motell6]

S.hiker I agree with your last two posts. Seems to me Storm mentioned a tank up where the sighting took place. Storm also mentions another differant type of anomily, I will have to do a little back reading to recall it...other thoughts of mine was maybe old time miners inlaid a solid gold/or silver triangle into a rockwall or bolder faceing the sun as a marker to a mine entrance , its also possible a latter visitor removed the marker. Have the original Peralta stones or heart ever been tested for metal content.?

 

[somehiker]

OG:

No,not that I am aware of, for any mineral/metal content.Not sure what any such testing would indicate,or prove.Have something in mind?
Unless a miner would want to advertise his claims in neon,I can't see any good reason for making reflective markers from gold or silver.Now,pyrite might be a good choice for a fixed "signal mirror",designed to cast a bright spot somewhere in particular.There is a boulder out in the Superstition Wilderness that has a heart pocket carved into it.It might even be the same size as the pocket in the stone map.It's on the upper surface though,so I'm not sure anything reflective would be of much use.

I have found places where markers apparently have been constructed, using slabs of rock which have layers of quartz crystals on one side.These rocks have been arranged so that the white face is generally facing toward the sun and are on southerly slopes so as to be visible from some distance.The way they are arranged,within piles of darker rock, seems to indicate something as well.

Regards:SH.

 

[somehiker]

Something I spotted about 400' below the same rockpile.
One of two sinkholes I have found in that area,it looks to have collapsed fairly recently.

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

Looks like a good spot to swing a metal dector.

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Joe:

There's been a few times I wished I'd had one.Even if only to find an old tool or coin with a date on it.
In this case,I jumped down into the hole for a look,but everything seemed to have sunk straight downward.So you would still be trying to detect something buried to the same depth as before.Too much brush and grass in the area as well,so I don't think a MD would be of much use around the hole either.Might go back next trip and see if the holes have become bigger/deeper.

Regards:Wayne

 

[motell6]

S.hiker,what you say about quartz as a reflector I believe could be very true. Also where the sink holes are happening, you might try pushing a 10 or 12 ft piece of pvc pipe into the bottom in several different places,then running a metal dector over the core samples. I would suggest a 1-2inch diameter pipe... no telling what you might recover.
To me the sink holes in your photo look bell shaped,which is a style of mines the Spanish dug...goodluck.

 

[somehiker]

OG:
It's probably too rocky out there for taking core samples to any depth.Doubt that I would be willing to hike about with a ten foot length of pvc over my shoulder anyway.Otherwise not a bad idea.If the sinkholes are covered mines,which considering their location would certainly be possible,they might just be modern prospects filled by the Forestry Service.I don't have much interest in mining,so I'm not likely to do anything more than check them out from time to time.If old ironwood logs start to become visible,I might change my mind about that,though.

Regards:SH.

 

[motell6]

shiker,neverthe less your field reports are very exciteing to read,its not my wish to encourage you further,if you do locate anything please dont report,gdluck anyways.

 

[djui5]

SH, please contact me before heading back to the sinkhole sites, I'd like to see them. Thanks!

 

[somehiker]

SH, please contact me before heading back to the sinkhole sites, I'd like to see them. Thanks!

Will do.
Promise not to break anything??

Regards:SH.