what would you do w/ the ldm if ya found it?

[Dirty Dutchman]

Dang Joe,

I just read my response, and it sounds like I'm being Pissy..... You've known me for over a year now, and know that sometimes I come off that way. Just wanted you to know that wasn't my intention!

Thanks
Travis

 

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[coazon de oro]

Sometimes naysayers get under your skin, and one just has to scratch.

DD, I also believe the mine remains covered, and no one has opened it yet. I just say we have no proof of it. Regardless of what so called experts may think, I don't believe it would be ten miles from Weavers Needle either.

You are on the right track thinking for yourself. A lot of people get swayed by the Old Timers that have been wandering lost in the desert for 40 years. These are no experts on my book, I would say they are the most confused of all. What advice could they possibly give you, if they don't know where the mine is. They can quote all the books, but they don't know which parts are true or not. If you may have noticed, they may believe a certain clue is bs just because a very "knowledgeable" dutch hunter thinks it is.

I still believe that a thermal imaging camera would show the mine. This is only for those that have narrowed their search down to the ledge. I wasn't saying to go through all the mountains. No one can stack four feet of ironwood logs very tight, nor will two feet of mostly rock with very little dirt (that has probably strained out), keep the shaft from breathing.

Those cameras can be rented from $125/day to $350/week. That would help to pinpoint the mine is you were in the right area, without breaking you.

What would I do if I found the LDM? I would probably raise chickens to sell eggs, and tend my garden.

Homar

 

[Springfield]

... Those cameras can be rented from $125/day to $350/week. That would help to pinpoint the mine is you were in the right area, without breaking you ....

Well, if you're that close, just look for a hole in the ground. I'll stand by my previous post re thermal imaging. Caveat emptor - to each his own. Good luck.

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

... Those cameras can be rented from $125/day to $350/week. That would help to pinpoint the mine is you were in the right area, without breaking you ....

Well, if you're that close, just look for a hole in the ground. I'll stand by my previous post re thermal imaging. Caveat emptor - to each his own. Good luck.

Springfield,

If there were an open hole in the ground, I guess there wouldnt be any need for a camera.........right?

I dont believe you'll need a camera, because according to the Holmes version, you should be able to "pace off" and find the mine with "little difficulty". The number to "pace" has always been a question of mine. I figured Brownie had left the exact "number" out of his writings on purpose. I no longer believe this to be true. I don't believe that his dad Dick had an actual number from Waltz. I now believe he was supposed to LOCATE something specific, that would "tell" him how far to space. I do believe Brownie left out the "what", but he didnt have an actual number.

You just have to locate this certain "thing", and it will tell you where you're supposed to stop.

Thanks,
Travis

 

[Springfield]

....For anyone else researching and reading this, i'll say it again, don't limit yourself to other peoples opinions of what's "real" or who's a "liar", cause they aint found it, so they aint no expert...... Think for yourself!!

Thanks again,
Travis

Assuming there is such a thing as the LDM (quite an unsupported leap of faith to begin with, IMO), there would be no way to locate it without proprietary information from Waltz himself, who has been dead for 120 years. If such a mine existed, and if such information was given, there is no reason to believe that the information would ever be available to the general public, under any circumstances. All the research in the world won't locate this target (if it exists) for you. You have the strongest force in the world working against you - human nature.

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

....For anyone else researching and reading this, i'll say it again, don't limit yourself to other peoples opinions of what's "real" or who's a "liar", cause they aint found it, so they aint no expert...... Think for yourself!!

Thanks again,
Travis

Assuming there is such a thing as the LDM (quite an unsupported leap of faith to begin with, IMO), there would be no way to locate it without proprietary information from Waltz himself, who has been dead for 120 years. If such a mine existed, and if such information was given, there is no reason to believe that the information would ever be available to the general public, under any circumstances. All the research in the world won't locate this target (if it exists) for you. You have the strongest force in the world working against you - human nature.

Hey Springfield,

I hear what you're saying, it surely is a leap of faith to believe in this legend. I do 100%, based on what i've SEEN.

I disagree that the knowledge wouldnt be made public, especially after 120 years, due to your own example......Human Nature.

See I think that some of the people had real knowledge, but couldnt find the mine for whatever reasons. So, they wrote a book when they "gave up" actively searching for the mine. Or, they passed this knowledge on to family members. It's my theory that some of that knowledge eventually hit the hands of a grandson, nephew, etc, who had no intentions of ever looking for a lost mine, and could have given knowledge out, simply because they didnt care or believe in it. That doesnt make it false.....

I'll also give my opinion on so called "liars". Someone has recently been accused of giving out false information, and even admitting to it. I don't know the man, and dont care about the opinions of him. All I can say is this.....What if he's bluffing about bluffing....?? What if he realized he gave away too much information, and wants to make it seem like his information is bogus, so no one will use it? I'm NOT saying this is what he did, but i'm open to the possibility. That's all.

Thanks,
Travis

 

[Springfield]

.... I hear what you're saying, it surely is a leap of faith to believe in this legend. I do 100%, based on what i've SEEN.....

I applaud your enthusiasm, DD. Remember the words of the late, great, Dandy Don Meredith: "When 'ifs' and 'buts' become candy and nuts, we'll all have a Merry Christmas."

 

[cactusjumper]

Dang Joe,

I just read my response, and it sounds like I'm being Pissy..... You've known me for over a year now, and know that sometimes I come off that way. Just wanted you to know that wasn't my intention!

Thanks
Travis

Travis,

I have no problem with what you wrote.

After 54 years of looking at this legend, I have formed some strong opinions concerning what is truth and what is fiction. That tends to rub some people the wrong way, but I'm too old to change now. I don't mind if some people disagree with me, it happens all the time. They could be right.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

Speaking of thermal imaging from aircraft, I believe success with that is what, essentially, led to starting this entire Website.

 

[cactusjumper]

Homar,

[You are on the right track thinking for yourself. A lot of people get swayed by the Old Timers that have been wandering lost in the desert for 40 years. These are no experts on my book, I would say they are the most confused of all. What advice could they possibly give you, if they don't know where the mine is. They can quote all the books, but they don't know which parts are true or not. If you may have noticed, they may believe a certain clue is BS just because a very "knowledgeable" dutch hunter thinks it is.]

I have always told people to check everyone's "fact", including their own. Spent a lot of time and money following my own advise. The only way to find out if someone is a "liar" is to research their "facts". In the case that Travis mentioned, I did that......seven ways from Sunday. Not an easy thing to do with someone you once called friend.

When researching history, the only thing we have is the written words of those who lived it. In some cases, we have to rely on folks who didn't live it, but spent their time talking to those who did. If there is a better way, I haven't found it. So........

Take care,

Joe

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

.... I hear what you're saying, it surely is a leap of faith to believe in this legend. I do 100%, based on what i've SEEN.....

I applaud your enthusiasm, DD. Remember the words of the late, great, Dandy Don Meredith: "When 'ifs' and 'buts' become candy and nuts, we'll all have a Merry Christmas."

Springfield,

Funny quote. But here's my favorite.......

"Someone someday will fit the parts together more successfully than we have done"-Jim Bark

Thanks
Travis

 

[coazon de oro]

There is real evidence that the mine exists, in my opinion, there are real clues out there, they are just not in the same book. At least Jim Bark got something right.

Joe, it could be that some of the "facts" you used weren't facts at all, or that you may have missed something. Even written history is not all true. You can only find out once the mine is opened.

Springfield, you may have the strongest force in the world working against you, I don't. I understand human nature, and have it working for me.

Homar

 

[Springfield]

There is real evidence that the mine exists, in my opinion, there are real clues out there.....

Yes, Homar, those are opinions. Subjective beliefs. Subjective because they must be taken on faith. Faith on the word of those who provided the information and, unfortunately, those who repeated it. Those who are long gone. We pick and choose what we believe in. The further removed from the truth of the day, the better the chance our beliefs are wrong.

 

[coazon de oro]

There is real evidence that the mine exists, in my opinion, there are real clues out there.....

Yes, Homar, those are opinions. Subjective beliefs. Subjective because they must be taken on faith. Faith on the word of those who provided the information and, unfortunately, those who repeated it. Those who are long gone. We pick and choose what we believe in. The further removed from the truth of the day, the better the chance our beliefs are wrong.

Springfield,

"In my opinion" is a formality I have to use to be in order. I agree with everything you say, I'm sure everyone here does, for it really goes without saying.

That faith is what brings us all here.

Homar

 

[Springfield]

... "In my opinion" is a formality I have to use to be in order. I agree with everything you say, I'm sure everyone here does, for it really goes without saying.

That faith is what brings us all here.

Homar

Yeah, we're probably pretty much on the same page, Homar. However, it isn't faith that brings me here, but curiosity.

 

[cactusjumper]

There is real evidence that the mine exists, in my opinion, there are real clues out there, they are just not in the same book. At least Jim Bark got something right.

Joe, it could be that some of the "facts" you used weren't facts at all, or that you may have missed something. Even written history is not all true. You can only find out once the mine is opened.

Springfield, you may have the strongest force in the world working against you, I don't. I understand human nature, and have it working for me.

Homar

Homar,

When it comes to the LDM, there really are very few facts. The legend has been spun by so many people.......just for fun, just for profit and some just for ego.

I came by my own opinions by over 54-years research into what has been written, what I have been told by Dutch Hunters more experienced than I am, and exploring the mountains.......off the trails. That being said, my opinion is no better than anyone else's.

No one is an expert on the LDM, but many have knowledge of the myriad legends, and that puts them in a better position to have a "qualified" opinion. Even so, it is just an opinion.

If you have a specific instance where I have said something was a "fact", I don't mind being corrected. If I did make such a statement, I was mistaken. Probably not the first mistake, nor the last.

Take care,

Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

Joe,

I saw my mistake after I had posted. I had misunderstood that you had checked your friends so called facts, rather than checked your facts to make your determination. It was your friends facts the ones that weren't in order. Perdon Amigo.

Year by year we keep getting more material based mostly on opinions stated as facts. Books keep getting printed by people that didn't find anything, other than a hole in the ground, or a place that can't be uncovered for verification. Yet they claim it's the LDM or the answer to the PSM's. Some do it for the money while others are just desperate for recognition.

This market of treasure legends may be the real gold mine after all.

Homar

 

[cactusjumper]

Homar,

I believe Chuck Kenworthy is just such a case. He made his money in the movies and then in real estate. Despite his claims, I don't believe there is any documentation that he ever made a dime from found treasure........other than his books. I would like to see one "authenticated" find that was not a self generated story. Most of his claims were treasures that he could not recover for one reason or another.

It's more than possible that I have just not found such evidence for his treasure "finds", so the above is just my opinion based on what I could find.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Homar,

I believe Chuck Kenworthy is just such a case. He made his money in the movies and then in real estate. Despite his claims, I don't believe there is any documentation that he ever made a dime from found treasure........other than his books. I would like to see one "authenticated" find that was not a self generated story. Most of his claims were treasures that he could not recover for one reason or another.

It's more than possible that I have just not found such evidence for his treasure "finds", so the above is just my opinion based on what I could find.

Take care,

Joe

Sorry I missed this for so long, but what would you expect from someone who finds a treasure? A newspaper article on it? While that does happen, it is more likely (and more often) the person or group that makes the find, that actually makes the fact a public knowledge. Self-publicized, so to speak. This does not make it false. In fact even a newspaper article announcing a great treasure found, is almost always only printed because the person or group who found it, personally contacted the newspaper or news media.

I see a lot of posts tossed around saying that there are few or no facts concerning the Lost Dutchman mine, not sure what the motive is on this but I see a common misperception also getting repeated too, that there is more money in selling the books about the treasure, than in finding the mine. Most treasure books are self-published, for most publishers are not interested in them at all. The reason for this is that there is a very limited market for such books, only treasure hunters and a small percentage of the public interested in it, are the whole market. Most treasure authors do not make a lot of money on their treasure books, so this idea that treasure authors are perpetuating the legend for their huge profits in book sales is completely false. There may be some treasure authors doing this very thing, thinking they will make millions on the book they write, but I ask such authors to look at any list of the best sellers for the past century, and see how many treasure books you find on it, and not counting Treasure Island which was pure fiction and presented as such.

There certainly are facts concerning the lost Dutchman's mine too; the famous match box is a fact for one, there was a real Jacob Waltz for another, his friends certainly went searching for that mine is yet another. While it may be true that a great deal of nonsense and BS has gotten blended in to the story, it is wrong to dismiss the lost mine simply because so many people have been spreading the BS for one reason or another. This does not excuse those guilty of such fabrications, and it is wise to keep in mind that many of the early treasure authors were not cross-checking the county courthouse records, they were simply repeating what information they had gathered, often by just asking people and writing down their answers. May not fit the level of scientific evidence which some folks seem to demand, but it also is not nothing either. Remember, a man may be convicted and executed on the word of two people, with little else to prove the case.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. Oh and if I found the LDM, you can count on me to ..................................
Oroblanco

PS if this whole Lost Dutchman mine story is BS, why do we have Dutch-hunters rendezvous each year, to get together and talk about a non-existant mine?

 

[Springfield]

1) Sorry I missed this for so long, but what would you expect from someone who finds a treasure? ...

2) ... PS if this whole Lost Dutchman mine story is BS, why do we have Dutch-hunters rendezvous each year, to get together and talk about a non-existant mine?

1) I would expect absolutely nothing. A person fortunate and capable enough to make a recovery is presumably intelligent enough to remain either totally anonymous or rigidly evasive. If any of the Waltz hearsay is correct, you can likely include him in the same group.

2) Because it's strictly a social event, like a local history group or spit n' whittle club.