Apr 30, 2012, 08:12 PM
CLUES THAT MATCH MY SEARCH AREA
I'm starting a post to show the clues that i've found that match up with my search area. Keep in mind that this is all just my opinion.
IF YOU WILL PLEASE WAIT UNTIL I SAY I'M DONE, I'LL KEEP POSTING MY CLUES AND PICS. I WOULD LIKE TO DO THIS SO THEY ARE ALL IN A ROW. I CANNOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO LOCK THE POST, SO PLEASE JUST BE PATIENT UNTIL I GET THEM ALL UP. THANKS.
I'll start with a photo taken from inside Waltz' cave. The cave is a "shelving cave", meaning it's just a shelf that's naturally cut out from erosion. The yellow arrow in the photo points to the small wall that was put up inside the cave. Some of the rocks have fallen off over time, knocking the heighth down about 8 inches from what it originally was. My "Pointing Tree" (Which I will post later) is to my right, about 20 feet away. The "hole you have to go through" (which I will post later) is just over the wall and to the left from where this picture was taken. Also, if you go back up the canyon "39 steps", you will find "Agua", or the "series of potholes/3 staggered water tanks". (Which I will also post a pic of) "69 steps to the mine" is the tunnel, which is about 70 yards from the cave.
It's not much of a wall, but a man-made wall for sure. (Like I have said from the start, simple story)
So here are the clues that this picture matches:
1) There is a stonewall in a shelving cave near the mine.
2) The gravestone was located 250-300 feet due south of the mine itself, and designated a specific crevasse between large boulders that one has to pass to locate the mine. (I will not be posting a picture of the gravestone, but if you go 270 feet from it, between the two boulders, you will find the starting point of "3 rocks that are the key to the mine" (which I will be posting a picture of)
3) The cave is near the bottom of a high bluff and faces northward. (The mouth faces northward) I believe the "tarp covering the entrance" was added by a writer.
4) You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. The hideout is well-covered, with a natural growth of brush and trees and is impossible to see until you are almost upon it. (When I post a picture of the pointing tree, you'll see what Waltz meant by this last sentence)
Apr 30, 2012 08:12 PM
Apr 30, 2012, 08:28 PM
Next is my "Pointing Tree". As you can see, someone has intentionally cut a "wedge" out of this tree to make the branch point in a certain direction. The yellow arrow is pointing the the cut. The red arrow is pointing to the top of the shelving cave in the previous picture. As you can see, the brush is extremely heavy covering the cave, and you can't see it unless you're right on it. I will be posting a picture later of my "3 rocks by themselves", and I will also point out this tree in that photo so you can referrence how close all of these things are to each other.
Clues that match this picture:
1) Waltz hid his mine with a Juniper. (This is not a Juniper tree, but it's still obvious that someone cut it.)
2) Close by is a Juniper with one limb that points away from Weavers Needle. (It does point away from Weavers Needle) Now, if you're paying attention, you should know where the cave lies from Weavers Needle......
Apr 30, 2012, 08:37 PM
Next is the "3 Staggered water tanks". It pretty much explains itself. There are three jacuzzi sized water tanks, all in a row, that hold water for a long time. They are about "39 steps" from the cave. Or about 40 yards in modern terms. The cave and tree are located around the corner. The canyon turns to the right from where this picture was taken.
Clues that match this picture:
1) 39 steps to agua
2) There is a spring of water near the mine. The spring is just a series of potholes.
3) Brownies "3 staggered water tanks".
4) This also matches the "water flowing over the rocks" that the mexicans described
Apr 30, 2012, 08:47 PM
Next is the "Trick in the Trail". Through this hole you can see the "Pointing Tree". If you go around the corner to the right, you will be in the shelving cave. If you go left and climb, you will find the tunnel.
Clues that match this picture:
1) There's a trick in the trail. You have to go through a hole.
2) The hole you have to go through is in a rock.
Apr 30, 2012, 09:37 PM
Next, I believe I'm standing within feet of the Lost Dutchmans Mine, If i'm not on top of it from this picture. I'm looking up at what I believe are the "Four Peaks above the mine. 3 large ones, and one smaller one".
The colors on the picture represent the following:
Yellow Arrows= The 3 large peaks
Green Arrow= The 1 smaller peak
Blue Arrow= The water fall
Red Lines- The ravine that is shaped like a "Y"
Purple Line= The line between two peaks that bisects the shaft
Clues that match this picture:
1) There is a line between two peaks that bisects the shaft.
2) There are four spires above the mine, 3 tall ones and one smaller.
3) There is a waterfall in the vacinity.
4) There is a cross-cut into the side of the ravine above the mine.
5) Dutchman is 69 steps back and down in a ravine only about 50 feet wide and 200 feet long, shaped like a "Y". (You can see by the picture that someone has "meshed" clues together. I am about 70 steps down from the point you can walk across the outcropping, but the measurements are off)
6) Above the mine is a grassy ridge where we could leave the animals. (below the green arrow is the only flat spot on the mountains and grass is growing on it during the winter)
7) The mine lies in the middle of 2 oblong outcrops that run North and South and are above the waterfall.
8) Mine was on a hillside
9) You can't approach the mine from above or below, but you have to enter from the side. (The only way to reach the spot i'm standing is to come in through a "gunsight" that is below the green arrown. Then you walk down about 70 steps and you're standing on the only dirt in the whole area.)
10) You have to work your way down a water crevasse. The approach to the mine is dangerous.
11) There is a dangerous footpath down to the mine.
12) There was a little bit of brush on the slope above the mine.
Apr 30, 2012, 10:21 PM
Thanks DD Been to az maybe 25 times over the years never in that area most in the Brads. Very interesting, How many years did it take to put this all together? Be careful
Apr 30, 2012, 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by onfire
I'm not quite done yet. I said i'd let you guys know when i'm finished so I don't break up the clues/pics. I bought my first book in October of 2010. So I've been at this about 1 year and 6 months.
Apr 30, 2012, 11:09 PM
Next is my picture of the "Doodle" drawing. I do have a picture showing the entire view, but that's just for me.... You should get enough from this picture to see why I believe it matches.
I am standing in the spot that I believe Waltz had in mind when he drew the doodle. To be clear, i'm NOT saying that he drew it while standing there, but this is the spot he had in his mind when he drew it. It's actually pretty impressive that Waltz could remember as much detail as he did not having been to the spot in years. He must have sat there alone quite a few times looking over his area.
The colors represent the following:
Yellow Curve= The "curved" line on the left side of the Doodle drawing. Which is obviously on the side of the canyon that i'm standing on.
Red Arrow= This arrow points to the two "triangles" that Waltz was trying to draw. It's actually a rock, inside of another rock. It stands out, which is why I believe Waltz chose to use it in his drawing. (That rock also "hiding" the "trick in the trail")
Blue "V"= This is the "saddle" or "V" that's on the right side of the doodle.
Green= Shelving Cave
Pink= Pointing Tree
Purple= The "dirt area" that I believe the covered shaft lies under.
The clues that match this picture are:
1) It's up high, yet you have to go down.
2) One needs to climb up about 40 feet to see Weavers Needle to the South. (It's about 65 feet)
3) Waltz described his mine as being high up in an Arroyo and hidden by the natural contours of the land.
4) The mine is above a brushy, boulder choked little canyon.
5) Mine was on a hillside
6) You have to work your way down a water crevasse. The approach to the mine was dangerous.
7) There was a dangerous footpath down to the mine.
8) The Mexicans always posted a sentry in a brushy canyon below the mine. He could not see, but could always hear the miners.
9) The mine is in awful rough country away from water. So rough you could be right at the mine without seeing it. (There is no "marked" spring near my location. I believe that's what Waltz meant by "away from water".
10) The area where the mine was located was all broken up.
11) The mine is on a steep slope under the lip of a cliff. (Just to the right of the Purple Arrow, that is a 12 foot tall ledge)
12) Waltz' mine is on a 12 foot high shelf. (I believe it's UNDER" the shelf or ledge)
13) Look for a triangle of rocks. (I believe this is what's on the doodle with my Red Arrow pointing at them)
14) You have to climb a short ways from a steep ravine to see Weavers Needle to the South.
15) The cone-shaped pit of the mine is situated in a ravine high on the side of a mountain with the mouth of the mine facing west. It's naturally hidden by the contours of the mountain making it impossible to see from below.
16) Across the ravine from the mine there is a cave.
17) Waltz had to climb above his mine to see Weavers Needle to the south.
Last edited by Dirty Dutchman; Apr 30, 2012 at 11:24 PM.
Apr 30, 2012, 11:09 PM
Book If you have time see if you can find any info on a gentelman Named Buck Stokes lived in Cave creek area Was in his 90's last I saw him he rode with Tom Mix back in the day He had a ton of old books about the entire area original writings not steped on by story tellers.
Apr 30, 2012, 11:42 PM
Next is the picture of the "3 Rocks by themselves"
On my last picture, these rocks are located on the "yellow curve" I referrenced. The placement of these rocks are the reason I believe Waltz drew this little "curve" in his Doodle. It had certain meaning to him. (He drew that, because that's where he had left the rocks)
Colors are as follows:
Red Arrows= 3 rocks (each by themselves)
Blue Arrow= "Pointing Tree"
Yellow Arrow= Shelving Cave
Green Arrow= Tunnel (obviously it's under the lip of the cliff and can't be seen from this view, but I just wanted to reference it so my next picture will make sense)
Clues that match this picture:
1) Three rocks by themselves are the key to the mine.
2)The gravestone was located 250 to 300 feet due south of the mine itself and designated a specific crevasse between large boulders that one has to pass to locate the mine. (When you start in the bottom of the canyon, you pass the two "large boulders". When you climb out, these 3 rocks are what you find at the top. You continue to the last rock and you're at the 12 foot ledge in the photo above.
May 01, 2012, 12:13 AM
My next picture covers a couple of clues. One being the "Volcanic Vent", and the other is a clue from Herman Petrasch about the "Open hole and mine dump".
The colors represent the following:
Yellow Arrow= Open hole. (About 3 foot wide)
Red Arrow= First attempt at a tunnel. (Possibly started by Waltz. I believe this only because he told Holmes that he "erased all signs of his diggings" and he talks about this when he's talking about how it "crops out" at the bottom of the wash)
Blue Arrow= Real tunnel that is about 30 foot deep, 6 feet wide, and about 7 foot tall. This is the unfinished tunnel that Waltz talks about.
Green Arrow= The "large boulders" you have to pass to locate the mine. (You climb that, and find the 3 rocks)
Purple Arrow= Mine dump. (This is where the tailings from the unfinished tunnel were placed. I did not get a picture of the tailings, but they are down there.)
Clues that this picture shows:
1) From over the top of a low ridge you could see down the farside where there was a small clearing, and open hole, and a mine dump.
2) The mine was a Volcanic Vent.
3) Tunnel opens into a canyon floor. (It's above the floor about 30 feet)
4) Dutchman was getting gold from a creekbed. There was a shaft in the bottom of a wash.
5) Indians always spoke of a cave. Mention the mine and they would say no, the cave. Cave at the base of a cliff in a little canyon. (I believe this talks about the tunnel)
6) The mine is above a brushy, boulder choked, little canyon. (below the hole in my pic)
7) The tunnel entrance is shaped like a bell. (I don't have a great photo of the tunnel yet, but I will have one soon)
8) There is a tunnel on the side of a hill and a pit above past the 3 red hills. (This clue is why I believe the tunnel was supposed to be "high", not even with the canyon floor. It's supposed to be ON THE SIDE OF A HILL. I also have an excellent picture of the "3 red hills" Waltz (Indians?) talks about, but once again...that's just for me...
9) Just across from the cave, about 200 yards (feet?) is a tunnel. Well covered and concealed in the bushes. Here is the mine. Some distance above the tunnel on the side of the mountain is a shaft or incline that is not so steep but one can climb down. This is carefully covered. The shaft goes right down in the midst of the rich gold ledge where it can be picked off in big flakes. (The tunnel is about 250 feet from the cave)
10) On the hillside below the mine there is a horizontal shaft penetrating into the mountain. Waltz built a rock wall over this tunnel to conceal it. (Once again, the hillside reference, meaning it has to be higher than the canyon floor. Waltz' rock wall has been knocked down by rainwater over the years. All of the flat rocks are still there, but you can tell that the ground under them eroded over the years and made the wall fall over. This was not moved by a man, that you can tell)
May 01, 2012, 12:26 AM
Next is my "Marker" or "Pointer" that I found.
I knew, by using Google Earth, that I had found the exact spot where the "Profile Map" was drawn from. I needed to prove it to myself, so on one trip I climbed out of my canyon to see if I could prove my theory and this is what I found. It's a marker and the "odd" rock in the ring is pointing right at the location where I believe the mine is located.
It's my opinion that from this exact spot is where the Profile Map was drawn. Actually there's no doubt when you're standing there.
There are no clues involved with this picture, but this marker is the "starting point" of the Profile Map.
Colors are as follows:
Yellow Arrow= Ring with "pointer rock"
Red Arrow= Quartz filled rock
May 01, 2012, 12:52 AM
Well, for now that's all I'm willing to part with.....
The following are the clues I have NOT found:
1) There are 3 big rocks above the mine to the west.
2) There is a symbol near the mine that contains a triangle, circle, and crescent.
3) I marked the place with a frying pan placed on the middle peak.
4) The shaft was 75' deep made in the Mexican style with flailing walls.
5) Just to one side of the mine is a square rock, waist high.
6) Deerings "markers"
8) The mine itself
Everything else i've ever read about, I have photos of. I can also explain all of the directions from the different sources.
There are FOUR maps that match the area perfectly, and they are all Mexican. (Ironically)
Adolph Ruth had exact directions and maps to find the correct location. Maybe not the exact spot of the mine, but he should have been able to find the same place I found.
Dick Holmes had exact directions that should have lead him to the correct location.
Rhiney and Julia were also given exact directions that should have lead them to the correct location.
It's my personal opinion that what I need are the "Missing Directions" that I originally asked for a year and a half ago when I started this. (Another Ironic thing...LOL...) If those directions actually exist, that's all I need to put this to rest. I believe they do, but I'm not sure the person who knows them will ever let them out.
I don't think it's impossible to find it without them, as the area only has so much dirt in it, so it can still be done without the missing pieces, but it would sure be nice to be able to wallk within a foot of the darn thing.....
That's it. Hope you enjoy the photos and see something in them that you've always wondered about and now see the proof!
May 01, 2012, 08:38 AM
Thanks for putting your theory together in such a concise and specific manner along with photographs. I'm swamped with work these days, but I'm going to go through your posts slowly sometime soon and see what I can glean out of them. It's 1000 times better than "look at this 500 foot shadow on the rock wall that looks like a gargoyle pointing at a treasure chest" or "here's the Lost Dutchman in my Google Earth image."
"There is no getting away from a treasure that once fastens upon your mind" - Joseph Conrad (Nostromo)
May 01, 2012, 01:37 PM
I'm gobsmacked!! (and yes, more than a little envious).
Never mind whatever gold is left - you just put all this together in a book - and there's your fortune. Hey - the way you have presented it allready - there's your book 90% done!
I do believe congratulations are in order, but I'll save the applause until it is final :-)
May 04, 2012, 12:28 PM
VERY nicely done. Some of those clues a guy could pass off as coinkydinks, but you just have way too many. Very cool. Keep us posted.
May 05, 2012, 06:18 AM
That small marker ring,with it's pointer stone,does look as though it's been there for a long time !
The most important photos will be,of course,the ones of the inside of the mine.
Especially any which may show,if it's there,an 18" "shelf" of rich gold ore.
Don't assume,just because you may not see it at first,that it's not there.
Many,if not all of these old mines,have a coating of tan/grey hardened dust on the inside surface,which I think is the result of time and dust storms over the many years since they were worked.
Some chipping with a rock hammer will soon reveal whats underneath the dust.
Last edited by somehiker; May 05, 2012 at 06:28 AM.
Hell,you ain't never too old to look!
May 05, 2012, 02:12 PM
I meant to put this photo up as well, but I forgot about it. This is the view standing inside the Shelving Cave looking the opposite direction of the rock wall photo I posted earlier.
As you can see there is "black soot" all over this section obviously from fire. It looks to me like it's been there a long time. It's my personal opinion that they built the fire on this side of the cave because it's the part sheltered the most from the elements and would provide the most warmth. (Remember they went in the winter. And when I say "they", I mean Waltz and his partner. I have found the spot where I believe the Mexicans camped, which is closer to my "Profile Map Marker". This would make sense because Waltz said, according to the "German Clues".... "The Mexicans camp(ed) above (on high)". Remember I climbed "above" all of these clues to look for the Profile Map spot and found that marker (plus other things). So what he meant was that the Mexicans camped above, or higher than his own personal camp.)
The floor of the cave is very smooth and free from any significant sized rocks. It would be one of the few places in the Superstitions that I would lay my sleeping bag down without having to worry about moving rocks or flattening a spot. It's already been cleaned out.
I have never slept there. Not out of fear...more out of respect. I have my own spot not too far away.
May 05, 2012, 03:20 PM
I did a little work on GoogleEarth to see if I could try to show why I think my area matches the "Profile Map" or "Mapa Del Desierto".
The colored Arrows are as follows:
Yellow Arrow= My "Marker" location or the Profile Map "starting point"
Blue Arrow= 3 Staggared Water Tanks or "Agua" on the Profile Map
Red Arrow= My Shelving Cave or "Caverna de Casa" on the Profile Map
Green Arrow= My "Pointing Tree" location
Pink Arrow= My tunnel that is about 30 foot deep or the "Tunel" on the Profile Map
Orange Arrow= This points to the "Half Circle" that is on the Profile Map
I'm going to put up three pics.
One will be the Profile Map. One will be the GoogleEarth image unaltered. And one will be the one with the Arrows.
I stated previously that Adolph Ruth had exact directions and a map that should have lead him to the correct area. I firmly believe that. The problem I think most have had is this. You're supposed to use the written directions FIRST. THEN you pull out the map, once you've reached the correct spot. ONLY THEN do you follow the Profile Map. The Profile Map is not broken into several pieces. You don't have to hold it up to a mirror. You just have to be standing in the correct spot for it to all fall together. Simple story, nothing complicated.....
(Remember, the Mexicans who gave the maps to Ruth (Erwin) had no idea at that time that Waltz had covered the mine. As far as they knew it was still an open hole that Ruth should have been able to find. Yes, supposedly the Indians covered some mines (I believe they did), But Waltz was there mining AFTER the Indians covered the others. He never mentions having to uncover it with Peralta, so that's what I'm going with.)
Not sure about anyone else.....But i'm a believer in the Lost Dutchman Mine.......
(Now, I better not catch anyone snoopin around my area..........LOL)
May 08, 2012, 06:02 PM
"(Now, I better not catch anyone snoopin around my area..........LOL)"
How many hints do you think it would take for someone to do such "snoopin"?
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