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  1. #16
    us
    Jan 2012
    Pinal Mountains,Arizona
    Garrett Groundhog-2012-1st MD. White's Goldmaster V/Sat-2nd-MD-2013 Tesoro Lobo-2015-3rd
    1,230
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    Prospecting
    @ Matthew,
    Thanks for your information and pics.
    I was at the AJ museums website and it said on one of the pages that the ore from the Bulldog mine matched the Dutchmans ore with about 70-80 percent accuracy. If I remember right.
    Is not the present owner, or previous of the bulldog the same person that holds or owns the matchbox, and maybe the ring.

  2. #17

    Feb 2004
    Mesa Arizona
    2,314
    3797 times
    I don't think I would trust a place that tells you something is genuine but is a copy

  3. #18
    us
    Dec 2010
    Arizona
    My Brain
    324
    71 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by coazon de oro View Post
    Amigis,

    I understand shyness, and won't insist to see your mula, but please do present Lupita to your Compis. I have a weakness for cute dimples.

    I hope you are not just teasing me about bringing our friend BB back. I do miss him telling Joe that he dagger does not point north lol.

    Mr. Roberts,

    I hope you will excuse us for getting off topic.

    I can't remember where, or who started the rose quartz description of part of the vein, but it sure looks like you debunked that one. Thanks again.

    Homar
    Homar,

    Im going to have to disagree with you. A couple of those samples look like they could be considered "Rose colored". (In the picture that has several samples).

    Im not a miner at all, but I have read that quartz that came out of the ground "pink colored" has been known to change color to white when exposed to the sun. I believe I also read that the matchbox had a "pinkish tint" to it when it was made, but has since turned white. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it's what I was told.

    Just my opinion.

    Thanks
    Travis

  4. #19
    us
    Jan 2012
    Pinal Mountains,Arizona
    Garrett Groundhog-2012-1st MD. White's Goldmaster V/Sat-2nd-MD-2013 Tesoro Lobo-2015-3rd
    1,230
    521 times
    Prospecting
    Quote Originally Posted by sgtfda View Post
    I don't think I would trust a place that tells you something is genuine but is a copy
    I agree.
    But I dont agree with all these professionals saying they cant find 1 mine, or area that has the same matrix in the state of AZ.
    I think these geologists, or who ever, is keeping the correct info for themselves.
    So,anything thatwas left is gone, or is going as everyone is in this forum looking for it.

    The only other possibility is the legend is fake,
    or he brought it from California with him.
    And just made fake trips into the sups, to pretend to collect his gold.
    150 years, and no results, at least not reported results.
    Last edited by roadrunner; May 31, 2013 at 10:35 PM. Reason: bad typing, improper keystrokes.

  5. #20
    gb
    Aug 2008
    Lancs
    184
    64 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by coazon de oro View Post
    Amigis,

    I understand shyness, and won't insist to see your mula, but please do present Lupita to your Compis. I have a weakness for cute dimples.

    I hope you are not just teasing me about bringing our friend BB back. I do miss him telling Joe that he dagger does not point north lol.

    Mr. Roberts,

    I hope you will excuse us for getting off topic.

    I can't remember where, or who started the rose quartz description of part of the vein, but it sure looks like you debunked that one. Thanks again.

    Homar
    got to agree about BB it hasn't been the same since he and Lamar left the campfire, Jose don't have no Mule, it ran away just before last christmas when it saw jose sharpening his knife and realised there wasn't a turkey tied to a post in the yard,

    Jose i PM'd you did you get it, ?

  6. #21
    us
    May 2010
    texas
    1,542
    3603 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Dutchman View Post
    Homar,

    Im going to have to disagree with you. A couple of those samples look like they could be considered "Rose colored". (In the picture that has several samples).

    Im not a miner at all, but I have read that quartz that came out of the ground "pink colored" has been known to change color to white when exposed to the sun. I believe I also read that the matchbox had a "pinkish tint" to it when it was made, but has since turned white. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but it's what I was told.

    Just my opinion.

    Thanks
    Travis
    Howdy Travis,

    I had never heard of this before, but then I am hard of hearing due to a pipeline explosion. I can't even hear a rattlesnake, I tell my sons or daughter to point to where the buzzing is coming form in the tall grass, so that I can spot them before grabbing them.

    I have seen pictures of rose quartz posted before, but then maybe they were fresh samples?

    Hopefully some one can shed more light on the rose quartz, and we'll see if it turns white.

    Homar

  7. #22
    pw
    Apr 2003
    New Mexico
    BS
    2,850
    1357 times
    Quote Originally Posted by coazon de oro View Post

    ....I have seen pictures of rose quartz posted before, but then maybe they were fresh samples?

    Hopefully some one can shed more light on the rose quartz, and we'll see if it turns white.

    Homar
    Rose quartz will definitely fade to a clear quartz if exposed to the sun for enough time - how much and how long I don't know. We used to sell all kinds of beautiful mineral and ore samples to Benji's Rock Shop in Ouray, CO that we retrieved from the Idarado Mine in 1974, including rose quartz. Benji told us to keep the rose quartz samples in our lunch box and out of the light.

    By the way, I saw vein material in that mine that produced picture rock every bit as rich, or richer, than the matchbox ore. I also saw similar samples that came out of the Smuggler, Sunnyside and Camp Bird mines in the Silverton/Telluride/Ouray district. The old timers used to say, "You shoulda seen what they were gettin' in the old days." I'm not downplaying the matchbox samples. It's damned good ore, to be sure, and rare, but certainly not unprecedented. Ask anyone who's ever worked in a gold mine. Below are a couple pics - from the Sunnyside and elsewhere.

    People are fooling themselves if they think they can analyze a piece of ore and determine exactly where it was mined. There are way too many variables involved with the creation of minerals. You might be able to match it to another sample, but you need to have a second independent sample from a specifically known site, and that's a tall order. Even ore from the same mine varies radically.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Springfield; Jun 01, 2013 at 08:12 AM. Reason: grammar
    ​Adios, amigos - it's been interesting.







  8. #23

    Feb 2004
    Mesa Arizona
    2,314
    3797 times
    It is not to sun light that changes the color of Quartz. It's the heat. Take a piece of smoky quartz and heat it up. It will turn clear as glass. Many gemstones are heat treated to improve or change color.

  9. #24
    us
    Dec 2010
    Arizona
    My Brain
    324
    71 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by sgtfda View Post
    It is not to sun light that changes the color of Quartz. It's the heat. Take a piece of smoky quartz and heat it up. It will turn clear as glass. Many gemstones are heat treated to improve or change color.
    So if the sun produces heat, then it COULD change the colors..... Right..?

    Thanks,
    Travis

  10. #25
    us
    Nov 2011
    Jamestown ND
    Garrett 2500
    1,841
    1383 times
    Old Jesuits and Spainish Mines
    Quote Originally Posted by sgtfda View Post
    It is not to sun light that changes the color of Quartz. It's the heat. Take a piece of smoky quartz and heat it up. It will turn clear as glass. Many gemstones are heat treated to improve or change color.

    So what your saying is your rose quartz gold will change in 24 hours and the Canadain Somehikers will stay rose color forever in the frozen tudra,

    Wrmickel1
    somehiker likes this.

  11. #26

    Feb 2004
    Mesa Arizona
    2,314
    3797 times
    Travis it not light that changes the color but the heat from the sunlight. Same thing works on a glass bottle that out in the desert for years. Can turn purple. It's the heat. I'm also a Graduate Gemologist.

  12. #27

    Feb 2004
    Mesa Arizona
    2,314
    3797 times
    I should add the temperature to change the color of rosé quartz needs to be above 500 degrees

    I think my car seat reaches that temp at Least it feels like it
    Dirty Dutchman likes this.

  13. #28

    Feb 2004
    Mesa Arizona
    2,314
    3797 times
    I bet if the quartz in the matchbox was removed the backside would be a different color. Lets say the matchbox was displayed under a lightbulb for long periods of time. That would change color of the surface. I have a heater that uses quartz rods those babies heat up. The rods are quartz because they transfer the heat so well.

  14. #29
    us
    Apr 2013
    Maneadero baja California Mexico
    1,039
    4576 times
    All Types Of Treasure Hunting
    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner View Post
    @ Matthew,
    Thanks for your information and pics.
    I was at the AJ museums website and it said on one of the pages that the ore from the Bulldog mine matched the Dutchmans ore with about 70-80 percent accuracy. If I remember right.
    Is not the present owner, or previous of the bulldog the same person that holds or owns the matchbox, and maybe the ring.
    roadrunner,

    The owners of the Bulldog Mine in order of ownership were : Oren Merrill, Orlando Merrill, JR Morse, CRHakes, Gus Hirshfeld, Chas. Ellis, Ralph Shill, Milo Shill, Alfred Lewis, Elmer Boyle, Alfred Lewis (again), Curtis Chapman, Hank D'Andrea and Ernie Saviano. But none of these gentlemen are the owner of the Matchbox, remaining Dutchman ore or the ring.

    The Bulldog and the Dutchman ore are a close match but the Bulldog was ore in quartz and calcite while the Dutchman is ore in pure quartz. No silver was found in Bulldog ore but was present in the Dutchman. Bulldog ore is close but enough differences to rule the two out as being one and the same.

    The Superstition Mountain Historical Society Museum (SMHSM) believes the stone maps they have in their possession are the originals based on "verbal" communications with the Flagg Foundation.

    Matthew K. Roberts

  15. #30

    Feb 2004
    Mesa Arizona
    2,314
    3797 times
    Lets not forget the gold in the quartz. Gold and silver heat up fast. Ever lean over a open hot oven with a gold or silver necklace on. Wow! I had to hook up wiring in my attic during a Az. Hot spell. In 5 min my gold necklace heated up so hot it burned my neck. Well the gold in the match box ore and the match box would heat up the quartz even more. If it was on display under a light at any time. That will do it. Hell go to a flea market and ask to see a piece of gold or silver jewelry that's been in display case that sat in the sun. Yep that will do it

 

 
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