CLUES TO THE LOST DUTCMAN MINE

[azdave35]

Jim Bremner's......not Jim Hatt's.

but it used to be hatts

 

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[gollum]

i'm not sure either marius but i think the story and video came from jim hatt so i am suspect

Dave,

I don't think the story came from Jim. I AM very dubious about it though. The one thing that is definitely fact is that Perrine and a small crew dragged that compressor up the side of Blacktop and were digging. Where he got the info to dig there I can't say, but they did dig there. The Forest Service had to remove the compressor.

The one story mentioned that I give ALMOST 100% to is the Harry (La)France Cave of gold bars story. I spoke to and corresponded with Tracy Hawkins several times before he passed away. He seemed to me (and to everybody I spoke to about him) to be a no BS guy. Tracy said he personally handled the bar LaFrance brought out of the mountains. He thought the whole part about the triangular boulder was BS. He believed there was a different landmark that LaFrance was looking for. He said LaFrance would always lag behind everybody looking closely at different things. He thought LaFrance believed he could find the secret landmark without anybody else knowing, then come back and get all the gold for himself, but unfortunately he died before he could find or get anything. Knowing that about his story puts another story in a different light, that I won't go into publicly.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

Dave,

I don't think the story came from Jim. I AM very dubious about it though. The one thing that is definitely fact is that Perrine and a small crew dragged that compressor up the side of Blacktop and were digging. Where he got the info to dig there I can't say, but they did dig there. The Forest Service had to remove the compressor.

The one story mentioned that I give ALMOST 100% to is the Harry (La)France Cave of gold bars story. I spoke to and corresponded with Tracy Hawkins several times before he passed away. He seemed to me (and to everybody I spoke to about him) to be a no BS guy. Tracy said he personally handled the bar LaFrance brought out of the mountains. He thought the whole part about the triangular boulder was BS. He believed there was a different landmark that LaFrance was looking for. He said LaFrance would always lag behind everybody looking closely at different things. He thought LaFrance believed he could find the secret landmark without anybody else knowing, then come back and get all the gold for himself, but unfortunately he died before he could find or get anything. Knowing that about his story puts another story in a different light, that I won't go into publicly.

Mike

mike..i'm with you on that...joe took us over to talk to tracy the first year of the rendezvous (2004 i think)...there was five of us i think..we quizzed him pretty good..he came across as a straight up guy

 

[Oroblanco]

And what's wrong with this? Jim couldn't manipulate others posts. There are enough evidences Walter existed.

Jim Hatt was a moderator on that "other bus station" and had the ability to alter other peoples posts. He altered several of my own. Hatt also had several fake ID "members" including one with a female name, which he used to support his own posts.

Don't get me wrong, Jim Hatt and I had a falling out but when near the end of his life, we settled matters. I don't wish to speak ill of the dead, but Jim Hatt was known to use fake ID and alter posts on that "other bus station" more frequently than you might suspect.

All that said, I have found reason to believe the Harry LaFrance story and that it was indeed found and recovered. To paraphrase my friend SDCFIA - your results may vary!

 

[Al D]

Dave,

I don't think the story came from Jim. I AM very dubious about it though. The one thing that is definitely fact is that Perrine and a small crew dragged that compressor up the side of Blacktop and were digging. Where he got the info to dig there I can't say, but they did dig there. The Forest Service had to remove the compressor.

The one story mentioned that I give ALMOST 100% to is the Harry (La)France Cave of gold bars story. I spoke to and corresponded with Tracy Hawkins several times before he passed away. He seemed to me (and to everybody I spoke to about him) to be a no BS guy. Tracy said he personally handled the bar LaFrance brought out of the mountains. He thought the whole part about the triangular boulder was BS. He believed there was a different landmark that LaFrance was looking for. He said LaFrance would always lag behind everybody looking closely at different things. He thought LaFrance believed he could find the secret landmark without anybody else knowing, then come back and get all the gold for himself, but unfortunately he died before he could find or get anything. Knowing that about his story puts another story in a different light, that I won't go into publicly.

Mike

Is there a description of what that bar of gold looked like? Was it Dore? or did it have tax stamps or assay markings?

 

[azdave35]

Jim Hatt was a moderator on that "other bus station" and had the ability to alter other peoples posts. He altered several of my own. Hatt also had several fake ID "members" including one with a female name, which he used to support his own posts.

Don't get me wrong, Jim Hatt and I had a falling out but when near the end of his life, we settled matters. I don't wish to speak ill of the dead, but Jim Hatt was known to use fake ID and alter posts on that "other bus station" more frequently than you might suspect.

All that said, I have found reason to believe the Harry LaFrance story and that it was indeed found and recovered. To paraphrase my friend SDCFIA - your results may vary!

exactly roy...i don't like to speak ill of the dead..but...

 

[deducer]

Is there a description of what that bar of gold looked like? Was it Dore? or did it have tax stamps or assay markings?

Five dots on a crown symbol.



This photo came from Joe Ribaudo.

 

[gollum]

Five dots on a crown symbol.

View attachment 1737605

This photo came from Joe Ribaudo.

HMMMMM Interesting,

This is a drawing Tracy made of the bar he held:



Ingot shape may be different, but marking, location, and orientation are the same. Is that supposed to be "the" picture of the Harry France Bar? I thought that thing had been burned up in a fire years ago? As I recall, Tracy described the bar as rectangular as well.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

HMMMMM Interesting,

This is a drawing Tracy made of the bar he held:

View attachment 1737606

Ingot shape may be different, but marking, location, and orientation are the same. Is that supposed to be "the" picture of the Harry France Bar? I thought that thing had been burned up in a fire years ago?

Mike

speaking of joe..has anyone heard from him lately?

 

[deducer]

HMMMMM Interesting,

This is a drawing Tracy made of the bar he held:

View attachment 1737606

Ingot shape may be different, but marking, location, and orientation are the same. Is that supposed to be "the" picture of the Harry France Bar? I thought that thing had been burned up in a fire years ago? As I recall, Tracy described the bar as rectangular as well.

Mike

I bet you that over the years, that bar has gone on a steady diet, losing a little here and there.. nudge, nudge, wink, wink.. Christmas time.. bills... gifts.. the lot.

Tracy probably saw the bar in it's original state.

 

[Oroblanco]

speaking of joe..has anyone heard from him lately?

He has not answered either PM or EM, last post was sometime in March. I hope it is just that he is too busy, but his health has been an issue. He last posted a "like" on July 19th.

 

[azdave35]

He has not answered either PM or EM, last post was sometime in March. I hope it is just that he is too busy, but his health has been an issue. He last posted a "like" on July 19th.

i'll try to get hold of him if i can

 

[arcana-exploration]

Speaking of clues, there seems to dozens of versions, on every clue, and usually, one or two versions seem to win out. So on this clue, is this the most excepted version? " you have to climb a short way from a step ravine in order to see Weavers Needle to the south and Four Peaks to the north where Four Peaks looks like one peak. Is this the excepted version, how many versions are there? And is this, one supposedly from the Dutchman considered to be, most likely valid, at least as valid as reasonably possible?

 

[Al D]

Speaking of clues, there seems to dozens of versions, on every clue, and usually, one or two versions seem to win out. So on this clue, is this the most excepted version? " you have to climb a short way from a step ravine in order to see Weavers Needle to the south and Four Peaks to the north where Four Peaks looks like one peak. Is this the excepted version, how many versions are there? And is this, one supposedly from the Dutchman considered to be, most likely valid, at least as valid as reasonably possible?

That clue cannot be valid because there is no place where you can see fourpeaks as one with WN to the south, if you look at the topo map you will see that four peaks line up in a North East to South West direction and four peaks is north of Weavers needle on bearing of 352 degrees.
so this clue is not possible to see since it cannot exist

 

[arcana-exploration]

That clue cannot be valid because there is no place where you can see fourpeaks as one with WN to the south, if you look at the topo map you will see that four peaks line up in a North East to South West direction and four peaks is north of Weavers needle on bearing of 352 degrees.
so this clue is not possible to see since it cannot exist

fOR ARGUMENT SAKE LETS SAY YOU ARE CORRECT, HOW EXACTLY IS THAT CLUE STATED (OR WAS IT STATED) IN ITS MOST EXCEPTED VERSION?

 

[393stroker]

If you go on google earth and set the date to 6/2011, look on coffee flat mountain up by picacho butte. Up in the southern draw about 2/3 up you will see a square rock with an elongated corner,tan in color. Find that and go up a little and press ground level . Then turn west to find weavers needle. Looks like the Waltz doodle backwards.

 

[arcana-exploration]

fOR ARGUMENT SAKE LETS SAY YOU ARE CORRECT, HOW EXACTLY IS THAT CLUE STATED (OR WAS IT STATED) IN ITS MOST EXCEPTED VERSION?

sO

so on that quote is that the most excepted version? Thanks

 

[Al D]

fOR ARGUMENT SAKE LETS SAY YOU ARE CORRECT, HOW EXACTLY IS THAT CLUE STATED (OR WAS IT STATED) IN ITS MOST EXCEPTED VERSION?

I do not know where that clue came from, I think someone told me once that it was in Sims Ely’s book

 

[markmar]

IMHO, Waltz meant the three peaks from the four.

 

[arcana-exploration]

sO

so on that quote is that the most excepted version? Thanks

Allan Thank you.