CLUES TO THE LOST DUTCMAN MINE

sgtfda

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A interesting side note on the Pitt Mine. Inside the mine there is engraved name on the wall. Bud Dunn. Bud was partners with Ted Cox. It's said a tin type photo of what may be Waltz was found by Dunn in the mountains. Had Heidelberg punched into it. Odd is that not. The photo was mentioned on a LDM forum thread. Then the thread was locked. No more talk about that. I sure some of you heard about the Cox papers if you read a certain book.
 

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393stroker

393stroker

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After the rendezvous I headed out there again, and camped out the first night right next to the green panniers. The saddle was gone. So someone must of had a horse or mule to carry it off.
 

sgtfda

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Joe at the class Jack did say they found the spot following Dutchman clues. It was covered with camo netting. Several men with rifles were spotted walking to the Pitt. Jack said they hid and watched. What happened later I don't know.
 

Oroblanco

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A interesting side note on the Pitt Mine. Inside the mine there is engraved name on the wall. Bud Dunn. Bud was partners with Ted Cox. It's said a tin type photo of what may be Waltz was found by Dunn in the mountains. Had Heidelberg punched into it. Odd is that not. The photo was mentioned on a LDM forum thread. Then the thread was locked. No more talk about that. I sure some of you heard about the Cox papers if you read a certain book.

With those two names, you can find out the true identity of the Pit mine, and also prove that it is not the LDM. My money is on that it was one of the over 20 silver mines of the Randolph district, aka Rogers district etc, many of which also produced good amounts of gold.

Oroblanco
 

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somehiker

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How close to a road was this cache found?
Anyone hear anything. Also, Shiker,where did you hear or read about it so I can see it.

Got the messages from an AZ local on Facebook who has been following Tom K's FB page. So Tom may also know about this.
Some pictures showing burlap and what looked like heavy canvas bags, each about half full.Looked like some were starting to rot, or at least had holes in them.
A couple had been emptied out onto the ground and photos taken of the contents. There was a photo of a pannier as well, which he said he found nearby.
Looked like the same one that Chuck had found last year. Don't know if Chuck is willing to share that location or not.....so I won't either.
So far as I know, the cache was fairly recent. I think Kurt and his crew have also been working in this area, judging by what he posted last weekend on DUSA.
Kurt posted a photo of a piece of rock they found, but it didn't look like the ore in the bags. Maybe something they found in the tailings pile. Wouldn't be surprised to see troublejack re-open that old mine...8-)

Regards:SH.
 

sgtfda

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There is a big ore dump over hill from the Pitt. Soon there will be a highway trail to the area. That or the forest service chasing everyone off. I'm sure double jack would not be tearing up the wilderness area. Would they?
 

somehiker

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Well, hopefully they or someone else will clean up the junk that Anonymess Inc. left behind.
 

roadrunner

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I know the area where Chuck was at because IO was going to go with him.
Is the info or photos on Tom K facebook page.
I will go look and look at dusa also.
Thanks.
I dont see any new photos like that on Toms page.
 

somehiker

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I know the area where Chuck was at because IO was going to go with him.
Is the info or photos on Tom K facebook page.
I will go look and look at dusa also.
Thanks.
I dont see any new photos like that on Toms page.

I check Tom's page a few times a week and have never seen the same ones on his page. Just that I noticed that he had Tom and a couple of other TNet posters listed as "friends". So he may have shared his story with them as well....that's why I asked. I don't think he posts on DUSA, but I don't have access to any user info, even as a mod. They had problems with that in the past I guess.
 

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393stroker

393stroker

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Cave.jpg
Got the messages from an AZ local on Facebook who has been following Tom K's FB page. So Tom may also know about this.
Some pictures showing burlap and what looked like heavy canvas bags, each about half full.Looked like some were starting to rot, or at least had holes in them.
A couple had been emptied out onto the ground and photos taken of the contents. There was a photo of a pannier as well, which he said he found nearby.
Looked like the same one that Chuck had found last year. Don't know if Chuck is willing to share that location or not.....so I won't either.
So far as I know, the cache was fairly recent. I think Kurt and his crew have also been working in this area, judging by what he posted last weekend on DUSA.
Kurt posted a photo of a piece of rock they found, but it didn't look like the ore in the bags. Maybe something they found in the tailings pile. Wouldn't be surprised to see troublejack re-open that old mine...8-)

Regards:SH.
https://picasaweb.google.com/111105718031384169372/RecentlyUpdated?authkey=Gv1sRgCLbcmv229MfWOQ# About 1 mile north of Angel Springs, across the wash and up the other side is a big cave.
 

Some Dude

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Not wanting to spit in anyone’s mess kit, but I want to bring up this point because several have suggested that the LDM (in particular) could be located with a pan or drywasher. OK – couple of questions: Before the mine was there (and it was just an untouched gold deposit on the hill) how did the gold get down into the stream (away from the lode deposit)? It got washed down there by erosion – right? And next year, what happens to that same gold in the stream? It gets washed further down the stream and therefore further away from the original source.

Therefore, using a pan (or drywasher) to trace the float gold back to the source will work just fine and dandy ONLY AS LONG AS there is a lode deposit up on the hillside that is constantly shedding new float. However, once someone finds the lode and then mines it – then there is no more gold being shed onto the hillside and down into the stream. And every year thereafter (once the lode has been dug out) that old float gold washes further and further down the hillside – further and further down the stream and further and further away from the original source.

Even if the LDM is not covered, it is a safe assumption that it has been dug down at least several feet. This means that no new float gold (nada, zip) is replenishing the old float gold that was on the hillside over 100 years ago. And that old float gold from over 100 years ago has since washed further and further away from the LDM.

Yes, there will be a very, very few nuggets or flakes from the original float that got trapped UNDER ROCKS and therefore will not get washed further away from the mine. But there is simply not enough un-replenished float gold remaining on the hillside after 140 years for the “grid sections and pan” method to work, after the original lode has been mined to a point lower than the surface of the earth.

If I am wrong about all this then please let me know.

Thanks,
SD
 

somehiker

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With those two names, you can find out the true identity of the Pit mine, and also prove that it is not the LDM. My money is on that it was one of the over 20 silver mines of the Randolph district, aka Rogers district etc, many of which also produced good amounts of gold.

Oroblanco

Roy:

Like yourself, I'm still not convinced that the LDM and PM are one and the same. If it is though, John D. Mitchell told the story back in 1941.

http://mydesertmagazine.com/files/194103-DesertMagazine-1941-March.pdf
 

cactusjumper

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Joe at the class Jack did say they found the spot following Dutchman clues. It was covered with camo netting. Several men with rifles were spotted walking to the Pitt. Jack said they hid and watched. What happened later I don't know.

Frank,

The people who worked the Pit Mine over that three year period did not find the mine. They were shown the location. I am pretty confident that's a fact. It's not common knowledge, at least I don't believe it's common knowledge. I am not part of the LDM clique in A.J.

Take care,

Joe
 

roadrunner

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Somedude,
I am no expert but in my opinion,you are and would be tottally correct.
If I found a vein,on a hillside,and cleaned it out 2 feet or more below the surface,then no more gold, or even quartz would erode off and end up going down hill into the canyon,or wash below or even on the hillside itself.
The only way there would be more,is if a splinter vein was running off my vein,and after a lot of rain,snow,erosion,opened up a new vein and it washed down.
Thats why new veins are being discovered from down pours.
 

somehiker

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There is a big ore dump over hill from the Pitt. Soon there will be a highway trail to the area. That or the forest service chasing everyone off. I'm sure double jack would not be tearing up the wilderness area. Would they?

I'd bet with all the talk about millions of gold having been taken out of this mine alone, many will be encouraged to search the mountains for more.
And not just this area, even for those who believe it IS the LDM. It's obvious that those who have and continue to claim there is and was no Lost Dutchman or gold to be found were either wrong or lying. Certainly lying if they knew all along about this mine. And who knows, what might they know about other finds like this, while at the same time trying to discourage others from looking ??

Best:Wayne
 

roadrunner

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I check Tom's page a few times a week and have never seen the same ones on his page. Just that I noticed that he had Tom and a couple of other TNet posters listed as "friends". So he may have shared his story with them as well....that's why I asked. I don't think he posts on DUSA, but I don't have access to any user info, even as a mod. They had problems with that in the past I guess.

I cant find any pics or info on Toms page,DUSA, or any where yet.
I was with in a half mile or so of Angel Springs last month.
 

somehiker

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Not wanting to spit in anyone’s mess kit, but I want to bring up this point because several have suggested that the LDM (in particular) could be located with a pan or drywasher. OK – couple of questions: Before the mine was there (and it was just an untouched gold deposit on the hill) how did the gold get down into the stream (away from the lode deposit)? It got washed down there by erosion – right? And next year, what happens to that same gold in the stream? It gets washed further down the stream and therefore further away from the original source.

Therefore, using a pan (or drywasher) to trace the float gold back to the source will work just fine and dandy ONLY AS LONG AS there is a lode deposit up on the hillside that is constantly shedding new float. However, once someone finds the lode and then mines it – then there is no more gold being shed onto the hillside and down into the stream. And every year thereafter (once the lode has been dug out) that old float gold washes further and further down the hillside – further and further down the stream and further and further away from the original source.

Even if the LDM is not covered, it is a safe assumption that it has been dug down at least several feet. This means that no new float gold (nada, zip) is replenishing the old float gold that was on the hillside over 100 years ago. And that old float gold from over 100 years ago has since washed further and further away from the LDM.

Yes, there will be a very, very few nuggets or flakes from the original float that got trapped UNDER ROCKS and therefore will not get washed further away from the mine. But there is simply not enough un-replenished float gold remaining on the hillside after 140 years for the “grid sections and pan” method to work, after the original lode has been mined to a point lower than the surface of the earth.

If I am wrong about all this then please let me know.

Thanks,
SD

Don't forget that Waltz said that the vein outcropped down below. While he also claimed that he covered it up, it may have washed out since then.
I'm assuming that while it may not have contained as much gold as the ore in the mine itself, it did concern him enough to conceal it.
 

somehiker

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I cant find any pics or info on Toms page,DUSA, or any where yet.
I was with in a half mile or so of Angel Springs last month.

I tried to download them myself, but it said "right click disabled" when I tried.
Copyright or privacy setting I guess. All I really wanted was the one with the ore all over the ground.
I checked back about an hour ago and they have since been taken down.....
But it doesn't have anything to do with this conversation.8-)
 

sgtfda

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Some Dude I suspect more than one vein the the area. There was a bunch of claims in that spot. One after the other up the valley. There is a reason for that. Then you have areas like Morristown and Lynx with fine gold all over the place. With gold there is no hard rule. As they say its where you find it.
 

sgtfda

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Mesa Arizona
Don't forget that Waltz said that the vein outcropped down below. While he also claimed that he covered it up, it may have washed out since then.
I'm assuming that while it may not have contained as much gold as the ore in the mine itself, it did concern him enough to conceal it.

Well Wayne in that case there may still be a hidden out cropping below the Pitt mine. Now that would be interesting.
 

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