Phoenix History

[Somero]

I thought this might be a good topic for the Lost Dutchman Mine. Hopefully it can give a little insight into what Phoenix was like in Waltz's time, might even answer a few questions or at least raise quite a few. If anybody has other links to add, Please do.

http://phoenix.gov/webcms/groups/internet/@inter/@dept/@dsd/documents/web_content/pdd_hp_pdf_00044.pdf

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

A History of Mining on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska - Grab it through Amazon!

[roadrunner]

Interesting read.
But no mention of a Waltz,Weiser,or any German names.
A Peralta is mentioned in the text as a businessman,who committed suicide.

 

[Somero]

Basically posted to give everybody an idea of what Phoenix was like then. It does give a little insight into the 160 acre plots, and a little info on the flood, just good general information.

 

[Somero]

Some more reading

History - Official Site of the City of Phoenix

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Phoenix History


phoenix history, like the namesake, is mythological in origin.
a couple of mud huts, a trickle of water...corn, beans, squash.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Washington street in downtown Phoenix looking west from 2nd street.
This is what Phoenix would have looked like about the time Waltz died in 1891.
Trolleys ran down the main streets, electricity was only a year or two away.

Emil Thomas and his wife Julia's first Bakery and Confectionary store was in the building on the right with the upstairs porch.
After Emil deserted Julia and left Phoenix, Julia had to vacate the store and find new quarters. Emil and Julia rented the store from Alexander Steinneger ( brother in law of Emil) . It was in this store that Waltz helped Julia pay her bills, paying off among other debts, an Arctic Soda machine.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

nice photograph...

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Quite possibly the most important photograph to survive concerning Jacob Waltz and the story of the Lost Dutchman Goldmine.

The photo belongs to Paul Pettit of Orange County, California. Pettit is the sole heir of the Petrasch- Zwiener families and is responsible for almost all the photographs we have of Hermann, Rhinehart and Gottfreid Petrasch.

The photo is the inside of the Emil Thomas bakery, ice cream and confectionery business on Washington street in downtown Phoenix. The same business as in the previous photo of the outside of the Thomas business. The photo was taken in 1888 and on the occasion of a publicity photo which would appear in the city business directory. The photo was not an impromptu snapshot, it was a scheduled photo taken to showcase the business and staged as to the members in the photograph.

The interesting thing learned from Pettit is that everyone in the photo is somehow related to the Thomas business. He can identify his relative Rhinehart Petrasch as the man standing in the foreground on the right. Emil Thomas stands behind Rhinehart leaning on the counter.

The man standing on the left is Joseph Gilmore, an employee of Thomas and was the man who went into the mountains searching for Waltz's mine with Gottfreid Petrasch and Hermann. An article on this search appeared in the Phoenix Gazette not long after Waltz's death.

The men sitting are identified as James Lee sitting in the forefront. Alexander Steinneger is sitting on the last seat farthest away. And the man sitting in the middle, the older man with the beard may very well be Jacob Waltz.

Emil Thomas did not own the store his business was located in. His brother-in-law Alexander Steinegger owned the building and rented the store to Emil and Julia. James Lee was a busines partner with Steinegger in Steinegger's hotel, restaraunts and other enterprises around Phoenix.

According to Hilda Steinneger - Kramer ( daughter of Alexander Steinneger ), Waltz did not supply Emil and Julia directly with produce and eggs as is commonly believed. Waltz supplied all of her father's restaurants, hotel and business establishments around Phoenix with produce , eggs and occasionally milk. The association of Waltz and Emil and Julia was actually through Waltz's business arrangement with Alexander Steinegger.

Everyone in the photo can be linked somehow to the Thomas-Steinegger business.

The old man sitting in the middle seat is the only person who cannot be positively identifed by another photo.

Is the man in the middle seat Jacob Waltz ? No one can say for 100% certain but in my opinion, yes, it is Waltz. It would have to be. He fits the profile as being in Steinegger's circle of business as are all the others in the photograph, he is the right age ( in 1888 Waltz was 78 years old ) and that man appears to be in his 70's or 80's.

No one can say for 100% certain though. It is the best chance of all photos of Waltz that this is the actual Jacob Waltz, the dutchman.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

matthew...is there another version of that photograph....one taken from further along the bar to the right?

I seem to have seen that photo in some archive...sharlott hall?

I agree this is the best guess going on, who is Jacob waltz

 

[Matthew Roberts]

matthew...is there another version of that photograph....one taken from further along the bar to the right?

I seem to have seen that photo in some archive...sharlott hall?

I agree this is the best guess going on, who is Jacob waltz

secretcanyon,

Yes the photo I posted is a close up that can be blown up to try and see the persons more clearly. You are correct, along the wall to the right of Rhinehart is a wall and a sign that says, "ice cream".

I don't believe Sharlott Hall Museum has this photo, it is from the private collection of Paul Pettit who lives in California. Greg Davis has a copy in his collection. T Glover and Helen Corbin both used this photo in their books I believe.

Matthew

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

thanks ... I swear I have held that photo, or one similar enough...mounted on that thick brown/yellowed paper....

 

[393stroker]

Thanks for sharing the links and photos guys, the bearded fellow may be Waltz, but I would say it is not. That guy looks to be around 60. His mustache and goatee are still black.

 

[Dirty Dutchman]

Thanks for sharing the links and photos guys, the bearded fellow may be Waltz, but I would say it is not. That guy looks to be around 60. His mustache and goatee are still black.

My best friend has had pure white hair since he was 35. So I think it's difficult to base age on hair color. I'll be 40 this year and have no grey hair.

Just my opinion.
Travis

 

[Somero]

Found this, not sure of the authenticity. Click on the GERMAN HERITAGE link highlighted in red if the photo does not pop up, Bottom of photo claims authenticated picture of Waltz 1888.

Lost Dutchman State Park Loop ? Hiking ? Arizona ? HikeArizona.COM

 

[Somero]

Nice picture here, File:Phoenix1885-AerialMap HiRes2.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

 

[1graeman]

Boy, this city has come a long way is such a short time...

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Old Phoenix in the foreground, New Phoenix in the background. Modern skyscrapers overshadow the adobe home of a Phoenix pioneer.

The adobe house in this photo is the original 1870 home of Darrell Duppa, the English count who was a founding father of Phoenix and came up with the name of Phoenix. Duppa was one of the first pioneers to come to the Salt River Valley and homesteaded 160 acres just southwest of the Phoenix townsite.

Duppa's adobe home still stands today at 115 W. Sherman street in Phoenix. It is the second oldest dwelling still standing in Phoenix. Duppa's adobe home was saved from demolition by Newton Rosenzweig and B. David Russell, both historic preservationists for the city of Phoenix. It was a long battle with the powers of city hall but today the home is on the historic register and has been reinforced and fenced off so no further damage can be done to it until it can be fully restored.

Only about 6-7 buildings still stand in Phoenix that were built in the 1870's and 1880's and were there when Waltz lived in Phoenix.
Alexander Steinegger's hotel at 30 E. Monroe street still stands today and will be restored in the near future.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[Terry Soloman]

Anybody heard of Jack Swilling? http://www.azcentral.com/travel/articles/2011/05/12/20110512jack-swilling-father-phoenix.html
http://www.riveroftimemuseum.org/content/docent_content/Jack%20Swilling.pdf

 

[Springfield]

Jack Swilling photo below.

Another extraordinary early character is Jacob Snively, Swilling's good buddy: Colonel in Republic of Texas military; Sam Houston's emissary to the Shawnee nation; raider of Mexican caravans on Santa Fe Trail; discoverer of Pinos Altos placers; discoverer of Gila placers east of Yuma; discoverer of Castle Dome silver mines; co-founder of Ehrenberg district; widely suspected of being the 'Dutchman' of the Lost Adams legend; a judge in Arizona District 2. Snively was killed by Apaches near Wickenburg.

 

[cactusjumper]

I would suggest that anyone reading posts about the history of Phoenix, around the time of Jacob Waltz, that you do your own research and not take anyone's word for it. There have been many "facts" that have been posted over the years that are highly suspect when compared to historical records and writings.

Joe Ribaudo