The Stone Map`s: Arizona`s toxic fraud

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mary333

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May 26, 2013
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Good Afternoon

Recently Joe Ribaudo and Sarge reported to the forum that Tom Kollenburn has indicated to them that he knows who created the stone maps and has known so for many years. Given that this information is shared with only a few select individuals it is important that Mr. Kollenburn come clean on what he knows. If Sarge and Joe are right they deserve a pat on the back. Mr. Ribaudo has claimed:

"Tom has been saying for years that he believes the Stone Maps are a hoax. After writing that in the newspaper, his "friend" xxx called him on the phone and called him every name in the book. I believe he was also ridiculed on DUSA. Bottom line is, even someone as well respected as Tom will be publicly, as well as privately, ridiculed for voicing that kind of an opinion. Just look at what's happening here.

Many of the boasters here, are not worthy to clean his horse's stall.

You may all quote me on that"!

Joe Ribaudo

Given this then as Hal Croves has wisely stated:


"That is not the point. It does not matter how many would take Tom's word for it. The point is that the in telling the truth as he sees it, his public would have the chance to vet the story. Let us have the chance to do the research and to establish our own conclusions. Tom is a public figure who writes about history. Why would Tom share that story as a secret, between friends who post about it and not publicly? He has the perfect platform to set things straight, as he see it. Why not? That story obviously has been around for some time and the engraver must be long gone by now. (?)

This is the only part of the stone maps that I find unsettling.
Secrets and the paranoia that it feeds."

"One thing is clear, if Tom knows that name and knows without a doubt that they are an intentional hoax, he has a moral obligation to inform the public. I will not even comment on the legal exposure since I am not an attorney, although I play one on Halloween.
You are correct that "I" am owed nothing, especially by Tom, but as I believe him to be an honest and compassionate man, I chose to believe that his actions (or inaction) simply reflect a level of hope".

The following dialogue fleshes out some of the particulars.

Hello Hal,

Given the information that Humper and Sarge have provided there seems to be another candidate for the creator of the stone maps. If you look at what Kollenburn says in his 2009 Chronicles:

"Still other stories exist as to the origin of these notorious stone maps. Fifty years ago it was rumored that a cowboy who lived along Queen Creek carved the stone maps and buried them near Black Point to confuse treasure hunters. This old cowboy did a lot of stone work for Clemans Cattle Company at the old Upper Fraser Ranch known today as the Reavis Ranch. The story is that this old man was a stone engraver at a cemetery back East and gave up the job to become a cowboy in the West".

Now look at the statements of Humper and Sarge. While Kollenburn seems to hide the identity of the creator a bit there is enough the same in the accounts that if someone knows this individual paydirt may have been hit. Notice specifically the use of the term tombstone engraver and stone engraver/cemetary. That is probably a slip that points to the creator. Seems Kollenburn has known the creator of the maps for a good long time.

Maybe Humper and Sarge have given us the creator without having to come out from under their rock.

Mary


Hello Hal,

I checked Grannie`s papers and the phrase meant something else. Just a place in the Superstitions.

Sarge,

You just keep getting deeper and deeper. Why not just do the right thing and tell the truth. in 2009 Tom K. in the Kollenburn Chronicles writes 2 specific articles addressing the Stone Maps. In neither article does he suggest what you and Humper says is the truth instead he just runs through a list of possible creators of the maps and concludes:


"As you can see this is just another explanation for the infamous and notorious Peralta Stone Maps. The stone maps have created as many enemies as they have friends. The Peralta Stone Maps will survive as long as there are those who follow in the “Footsteps of Coronado’s Children.”

Now comes along the two amigos and what do you two tell us.

Originally Posted by sgtfda
Had to go to the Apache Junction fruit market today so I decided to meet up with Tom K at the Blue Bird. By the way they have a set of the stones on display in the front window. Copies just like the museum. God everyone has them. Tom told me a acquaintance made the stones in the 30's and placed them in the FJ spot. I asked why there and he said the guy was working in the area. This person also worked as a tombstone engraver. Which explains a lot. I wanted to ask him about the Burns from Burns Ranch and the pitt mine. The stones came up after I noticed the window display. I will still keep a open mind as its fun to play with the issue.
Frank,

Tom told me this story some time ago. Not much chance he will ever divulge the name. I believe it to be true.

Take care,

Joe

Sarge the problem is Mr. K`s concluding sentence is true. Those maps will be maiming and killing folks," as long as there are those who follow in the “Footsteps of Coronado’s Children.”

It is one thing for people to die and be injured if knowledgeable people don`t know the truth but you do. So Sarge who is telling the truth you and Humper or Mr. K. My money is on you. That is why what`s going on is so dangerous. It is not just a lie it is a lie that is allowed to live and is being given credence by those who know better.


Mary



Hello Hal

just some additional thoughts. If the identity of this person can be ascertained this may lead to places and people that could open a whole new perspective on this issue. First what is his name, next who did he know. And where did he get the knowledge to pull this off. Maybe he knew the person that is your prime suspect. Could be a whole new fascinating avenue of research. Also as it appears, the identity of this person has been known for years by a number of people why has it been kept quiet? Is it as simple as economics 101. Keep a mystery going so you can reap the economic benefit of writing about it and having people from all over the world visit and talk about Arizona? Fascinating.

And what the hey a few people get killed looking for the end of the Stone Map Trail just the cost of doing business.

Humper you and Sarge remind me of the old adage, "loose lips sinks ships". In this case this ship should have been sunk a long time ago. The right thing may have been done because of you. You should enjoy the well deserved spot light for your fine efforts. I have to hand it to Humper though I would be more than a little upset knowing that I circled Boulder Canyon needlessly for 40 years when someone could have just taken me aside and said look Joe here is the truth. That is it Joe, you realize you too were caught up in this scam and the last thing you want to do is admit it.


Mary


Hopefully Mr. Kollenburn will help prevent any needless injuries or deaths in the mountains by simply telling the truth and preventing others from going on a fool`s errand.


Mary
 

sgtfda

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Oh! Mary watch out NP has buried mummies in the past according to his posts.

Just exactly how many accounts are you permitted to have on Treasure Net?
 

Not Peralta

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:cat:you now have a big decision to make, which book do you buy now,np
 

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cactusjumper

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Dec 10, 2005
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Oh! Mary watch out NP has buried mummies in the past according to his posts.

Just exactly how many accounts are you permitted to have on Treasure Net?

Frank,

Well........I think Mary is a guy so.......It seems unlikely that he could be a mummy. Perhaps a daddy.:dontknow:

Take care,

Joe
 

somehiker

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Finally got around to purchasing a copy of the Superstition mountain Journal Vol. 29 recently. There are two articles with information about the Stone Maps. Part 2 of Azmula's theories regarding the history of the stones and of more topical interest, a write up by Greg Davis about Noble Dwyer.
Greg includes exerpts from the journal of Ron Lorenz detailing the claim by Dwyer to have found the original, and only genuine Stone Map in 1947.
Lorenz writes that he has viewed a photo of this stone, the Horse/Priest Stone on the bumper of a 1946 Dodge. This photo was destroyed in 1983, along with other information by Dwyer, who felt that there had been too much trouble and loss of life caused by the stones. It was Noble who had given the stone to Tumlinson, who in turn had fabricated the two phoney trail maps in order to supplement the H/P stone.

Tom Kollenborn has written about Ron Lorenz...http://superstitionmountaintomkollenborn.blogspot.ca/2009_05_01_archive.html I have not seen anything by Tom about Noble Dwyer.

Regards:SH.
 

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cactusjumper

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Dec 10, 2005
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All,

Nothing, but NOTHING will move treasure hunters off a good treasure yarn once they have truly landed on it. Ya see it every day.

Joe Ribaudo
 

Springfield

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All,

Nothing, but NOTHING will move treasure hunters off a good treasure yarn once they have truly landed on it. Ya see it every day.

Joe Ribaudo

You see it in all aspects of life - it's the human condition. I find it telling when a true believer reacts defensively or angrily to contradictory views, especially those supported by verifiable evidence. All of our beliefs are merely working models, most likely wrong and in need of constant repair.
 

OP
OP
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mary333

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May 26, 2013
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Good Afternoon


Yesterday`s posts have been unchallenged by the subsequent chatter. Let`s take another look at ethical badlands some are roaming in.


Originally Posted by sgtfda
Had to go to the Apache Junction fruit market today so I decided to meet up with Tom K at the Blue Bird. By the way they have a set of the stones on display in the front window. Copies just like the museum. God everyone has them. Tom told me a acquaintance made the stones in the 30's and placed them in the FJ spot. I asked why there and he said the guy was working in the area. This person also worked as a tombstone engraver. Which explains a lot. I wanted to ask him about the Burns from Burns Ranch and the pitt mine. The stones came up after I noticed the window display. I will still keep a open mind as its fun to play with the issue.
Frank,

Tom told me this story some time ago. Not much chance he will ever divulge the name. I believe it to be true.

Take care,

Joe

"Sarge the problem is Mr. K`s concluding sentence is true. Those maps will be maiming and killing folks," as long as there are those who follow in the “Footsteps of Coronado’s Children.

It is one thing for people to die and be injured if knowledgeable people don`t know the truth but you do. So Sarge who is telling the truth you and Humper or Mr. K. My money is on you. That is why what`s going on is so dangerous. It is not just a lie it is a lie that is allowed to live and is being given credence by those who know better.

Given this then as Hal Croves has wisely stated":


"That is not the point. It does not matter how many would take Tom's word for it. The point is that the in telling the truth as he sees it, his public would have the chance to vet the story. Let us have the chance to do the research and to establish our own conclusions. Tom is a public figure who writes about history. Why would Tom share that story as a secret, between friends who post about it and not publicly? He has the perfect platform to set things straight, as he see it. Why not? That story obviously has been around for some time and the engraver must be long gone by now. (?)

This is the only part of the stone maps that I find unsettling.
Secrets and the paranoia that it feeds."

"One thing is clear, if Tom knows that name and knows without a doubt that they are an intentional hoax, he has a moral obligation to inform the public. I will not even comment on the legal exposure since I am not an attorney, although I play one on Halloween.
You are correct that "I" am owed nothing, especially by Tom, but as I believe him to be an honest and compassionate man, I chose to believe that his actions (or inaction) simply reflect a level of hope".

It is odd that people so interested in the fate of the dead seem to have no interest in the fate of the living.

Guess this is what it is all about:

"Also as it appears, the identity of this person has been known for years by a number of people why has it been kept quiet? Is it as simple as economics 101. Keep a mystery going so you can reap the economic benefit of writing about it and having people from all over the world visit and talk about Arizona? Fascinating.

And what the hey a few people get killed looking for the end of the Stone Map Trail just the cost of doing business".



Mary
 

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Terry Soloman

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Carlos Danger just Tweeted me a photo of himself holding his stones..
 

rangler

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The people or persons who carved the stone maps were the Jesuits..the 3 stones are in their code..in one of my early trips to the supper in about 2003 I happened upon a very faint trail..found a huge Alpha monument that KW missed or didnt photograph..this lead to the Omega following Distance and Direction..the Omega was empty as far as I could tell..but next door so to speak I found a second monument..with what I have come to know as a "decoy empty vault..a decoy indeed because I realized months late and on an annual pilgrimage the hole the decoy vault made was just the right shape, size and dimentions to hold the 3 legendary stones! what is more is..the maps have no value in terms of telling you the orientation..but here at the original burial spot of the stones is the data [you are here] once you see that the topography all falls into place..proven out by the circles and lines connecting them -each circle is a cache spot..each succesive cache is the quint from the now worked out [ I think] mine...I followed two of the circles on the map to their locations and found the two with out any problem..both empty of course, BUT this is how I learned of the "empty decoy vault" syndrome..that very clever codemakers and masons devised to hide the caches in plain site. ...while making the casual hunter think the goodies were gone, long gone...

Really it is proven out by the Expoltion of the Jesuits in 1767..just ahead of the Spanish Soldiers arrival in Arz..the stones were taken from their hiding place and unceremoniously dumped in the sand as they beat a hasty retreat south to Vera Cruz where they hoped to find passage out of mexico to anywhere safe from arrest...they knew that without a starting point or reference [as in you are here] the stones would never solved and numerous quint stashes would be safe..and if the kings men gave up on the search, they would be able to come back and dig up the stashes themselves..

Some on else has figured they are Jesuit related and the rest is red herring after red herring.[some built in from the get and some added to by others.. No I don't know who that is..and frankly I don't care..the goodies belong to those that figure out the puzzle and dare to take anything out of the supers but information..legally that is...and a treasure trove permit ha what a joke you all know that is.. so maybe, just maybe in my later senior years when I have nothing left to loose...you might see an old timer with a heavy pack and a smile on his face heading out bound on one of the trails leaving the supers..dont dismiss this theory, it makes logical sense more so than any other this is Code - advanced Code One thing you can dismiss, these stones are not fakes..they are real...
oro for the very informed
rangler
 

OP
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mary333

Banned
May 26, 2013
22
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Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Good Afternoon,


So tell me Sarge. You made 8 rather mind numming posts since yesterday defending Mr. K. Do you believe he would make just 1 post defending you? Maybe you should share with Rangler what you know. Might save a life.


Mary

Rangler,

Good luck in you search and remember to spend a lot of money in Arizona supporting the local economy.

Skelton Man,

Not much to say to you. Believe you are busy with with the stones.


Mary
 

sgtfda

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Mary I must admit I'm a bit jealous. You sent Terry a picture. I suspect you do have a thing for me. However Joe suggested your a man and I don't think this will work out. You see I'm still a virgin. I know this breaks your heart but its best in the long run. Besides what will Carlos think. Oh! How did Dirty Boots get his boots so dirty? Bad girl!
 

Springfield

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...so maybe, just maybe in my later senior years when I have nothing left to loose...you might see an old timer with a heavy pack and a smile on his face heading out bound on one of the trails leaving the supers...
rangler

Please, ragger, come back in twenty years and provide an update.
 

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