AZ Unknown Mines

[chlsbrns]

What is a unknown mine? A deposit yet to be discovered?

It's a mine that has been worked but has no known name.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=32.9...7088,-113.653564&spn=1.595769,2.90863&t=m&z=9

 

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[pippinwhitepaws]

WHAT? so any hole in the ground without a name is a lost mine?

ok..i quit...good day.

 

[chlsbrns]

WHAT? so any hole in the ground without a name is a lost mine?

ok..i quit...good day.

I don't know how you think but if that's what you comprehend then yes. What I comprehend is that there are a whole lot of mines without names any of which could be one of the numerous so called lost mines.

CYA!

 

[chlsbrns]

the USGS records of the Lost Dutchman's Claims

 

[chlsbrns]

Lost Dutchman claims (Old Mina Sombrera), Gold Canyon Ranch, Superstition Mountains District, Superstition Mts, Pinal Co., Arizona, USA

The Lost Dutchman Claims are the Old Mina Sombrera

 

[chlsbrns]

It appears that the Waltz mining claims posted on the internet are as fake as the LDM as they do not comply with the mining laws.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Laws of which period chisbrns?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[chlsbrns]

Laws of which period chisbrns?

Don Jose de La Mancha

It's dated 1864.

 

[chlsbrns]

That took hours. All of the pics below are from the same directory. It's a local business directory not a newspaper. No need for propaganda. None of the characters in the LDM stories are in the directory. ZERO!

 

[wrmickel1]

Wilderness.net - 1964 Wilderness Act

Wilderness Act of 1964, Sec. 4 (d)(3):
" ... Subject to valid rights then existing, effective January 1, 1984, the minerals in lands designated by this Act as wilderness areas are withdrawn from all forms of appropriation under the mining laws and from disposition under all laws pertaining to mineral leasing and all amendments thereto."

No mining in a Wilderness Area unless legal mining claims existed at the time of enactment (1984). The land swap procedure is for non-wilderness NFS land, unless 'closed for mineral entry'.

Sorry Springy

NOT VALID, Rules are for us not the government, The same government you defend, Gave a cattle rancher twice as much federal land for his land. It was the original cattle ranch that Teddy Roosevelt owned, and they wanted it at any cost! Bottom line no rules are set in stone.

So find the LDM, Let the state of AZ know they will be loosing millions in tax revenue and you will be mining that puppy before you know it.

Wrmickel1

 

[Springfield]

Presumably you read the entire 1864 Mining Law document. Where were the Waltz claims non-compliant?

The clipping was typical propaganda of the times. Gold in remarkable abundance? Arizona occupied by Spain in the 1520's?

 

[Oroblanco]

Springfield wrote

Gold in remarkable abundance?

Perhaps your idea of "abundance" is not what was meant - however Arizona certainly ranks as one of the top gold producing states - since the 19th century around 16 million ounces of the yellow metal have come out of Arizona, and that does not count the production while it was possessed by Mexico or Spain. I would call that gold in abundance, certainly far better for a prospector than many other states.

Wrmickel1 is correct in that while we can not file a mining claim in a wilderness area as per the 1872 Mining Act, there are ways to get it done. Land exchanges are one method, and they do not factor the value of the minerals involved (as is currently being done in the Santa Ritas in AZ for a major copper project) but special permits/permission are another route, it is just a more complex deal. You have to be able to show the authorities (starting with the Forest Service) that you really have found the rich vein of gold, and be willing to hike in and show it to them too. They are not going to listen if you say you solved a treasure map (stone, paper or otherwise) or have the clues etc. You have to show them the gold - photograph and document it very well, then proceed and be patient.

For the record, many people seem to think you can not prospect in Wilderness Areas. Read the relevant passage from the Wilderness Act:

(2) Nothing in this Act shall prevent within national forest wilderness areas any activity, including prospecting, for the purpose of gathering information about mineral or other resources, if such activity is carried on in a manner compatible with the preservation of the wilderness environment. Furthermore, in accordance with such program as the Secretary of the Interior shall develop and conduct in consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture, such areas shall be surveyed on a planned, recurring basis consistent with the concept of wilderness preservation by the Geological Survey and the Bureau of Mines to determine the mineral values, if any, that may be present; and the results of such surveys shall be made available to the public and submitted to the President and Congress.

Note that it is paramount to not be tearing the country up, as for a giant open pit operation. But for the LDM, we are talking about a mine that would be something you could very well mine, and not cause much, if any, disturbance to the wilderness, which is a point you must make in your application for permissions.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[chlsbrns]

Sorry Springy

NOT VALID, Rules are for us not the government, The same government you defend, Gave a cattle rancher twice as much federal land for his land. It was the original cattle ranch that Teddy Roosevelt owned, and they wanted it at any cost! Bottom line no rules are set in stone.

So find the LDM, Let the state of AZ know they will be loosing millions in tax revenue and you will be mining that puppy before you know it.

Wrmickel1

That's absurd!

Rules are for us wouldn't it be us that finds the gold?

Didn't you read any of the facts that were posted?

 

[chlsbrns]

Presumably you read the entire 1864 Mining Law document. Where were the Waltz claims non-compliant?

The clipping was typical propaganda of the times. Gold in remarkable abundance? Arizona occupied by Spain in the 1520's?

Nothing about the bogus Waltz claims comply with the law.

You can believe it's propaganda if you want.

 

[austin]

Seriously, anyone really think that the current administration will let anyone besides themselves mine in a national wilderness area? And you know that the few of us nonbelievers are in the minority. Everybody else will always believe and keep looking...

 

[chlsbrns]

Springfield wrote


Perhaps your idea of "abundance" is not what was meant - however Arizona certainly ranks as one of the top gold producing states - since the 19th century around 16 million ounces of the yellow metal have come out of Arizona, and that does not count the production while it was possessed by Mexico or Spain. I would call that gold in abundance, certainly far better for a prospector than many other states.

Wrmickel1 is correct in that while we can not file a mining claim in a wilderness area as per the 1872 Mining Act, there are ways to get it done. Land exchanges are one method, and they do not factor the value of the minerals involved (as is currently being done in the Santa Ritas in AZ for a major copper project) but special permits/permission are another route, it is just a more complex deal. You have to be able to show the authorities (starting with the Forest Service) that you really have found the rich vein of gold, and be willing to hike in and show it to them too. They are not going to listen if you say you solved a treasure map (stone, paper or otherwise) or have the clues etc. You have to show them the gold - photograph and document it very well, then proceed and be patient.

For the record, many people seem to think you can not prospect in Wilderness Areas. Read the relevant passage from the Wilderness Act:

(2) Nothing in this Act shall prevent within national forest wilderness areas any activity, including prospecting, for the purpose of gathering information about mineral or other resources, if such activity is carried on in a manner compatible with the preservation of the wilderness environment. Furthermore, in accordance with such program as the Secretary of the Interior shall develop and conduct in consultation with the Secretary of Agriculture, such areas shall be surveyed on a planned, recurring basis consistent with the concept of wilderness preservation by the Geological Survey and the Bureau of Mines to determine the mineral values, if any, that may be present; and the results of such surveys shall be made available to the public and submitted to the President and Congress.



Note that it is paramount to not be tearing the country up, as for a giant open pit operation. But for the LDM, we are talking about a mine that would be something you could very well mine, and not cause much, if any, disturbance to the wilderness, which is a point you must make in your application for permissions.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

Yes you are allowed to prospect but are not allowed to mine. Amazing! If you were to find a cast iron skillet with a hole in it you would not be allowed to take it. Again, didn't you read the verifiable facts that were posted?

Tonto National Forest - Special Places

 

[Oroblanco]

Seriously, anyone really think that the current administration will let anyone besides themselves mine in a national wilderness area? And you know that the few of us nonbelievers are in the minority. Everybody else will always believe and keep looking...

How many precious metal mines is the US government operating? I can tell you - zero - they are not going to get out of suits and ties to work a mine. The federal government is not in the precious metals mining business, other than in accepting royalties on the proceeds and taxes on the profits. Stop listening to propaganda and look it up yourself, don't take my word for it. The federal government stands to benefit when someone starts up a new gold/silver mine, or copper mine etc. They don't want people just tearing up the country in the process, as was happening prior to the Wilderness Act. One rather whacky lady was even blasting down Weavers Needle thinking the gold mine was hidden inside it somehow. The govt had to do something or there would be little of that wild country left to enjoy for anyone.

Heck the govt even allowed people to go digging in a US Army base in Cochise county not that long ago, even supplied the heavy equipment to help dig it out, which was unfortunately unsuccessful. I guess for some people if you can't take a dozer in and level off the mountains in your search for gold, then it is not worth even trying.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[chlsbrns]

Lets stick to verifiable facts. If you want to claim that us ordinary citizens had permission to dig in a US Army base and provided equipment or that some wacky lady was blasting down Weavers Needle or that an Indian killed a cast iron skillet with a pic back it up with proof.

 

[chlsbrns]

I'll reply then can we get back on topic?

Unlike oroblancos link this link can be clicked: http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fsbdev3_034082.pdf

Did you read it or just post a link? That's ok, don't reply. You obviously didn't read it or wanted to hide relevant facts.

Here are direct quotes: Formal appraisal documents are completed for all tracts included in the exchange. Exchanges are on a "value for value" basis, not an "acre for acre-" basis.

All FS land exchanges are completed on an equal value basis. If one parcel is of slightly higher value, the difference can be made up in cash (not to exceed 25% of the value of the Federal land).

Being that it's been verified with actual documentation that it would not be feasible or you will never be allowed to mine of Federal Wilderness can we get back on topic?

...

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/tonto/specialplaces/?cid=fsbdev3_018726

 

[wrmickel1]

Seriously, anyone really think that the current administration will let anyone besides themselves mine in a national wilderness area? And you know that the few of us nonbelievers are in the minority. Everybody else will always believe and keep looking...

Austin

Yes, You bet' Knowing that AZ is the most anti federal government state in the US, I'm sure they would have a lot to say about the feds stealing from there coffers.

Wrmickel1