LDM, OZ, & CALALUS

[Not Peralta]

I told you I knew the story, I've heard them before. I like to give anyone leeway until the story goes too far without proof.
Prospecting, mining and treasure hunting all have one thing in common: research. There has to be a thread of truth to a story.
I was born in a mining camp, I know first hand at how hard of a life it is. There's no time for nonsense.
And most people that have been in any of these endeavors have heard every story that's been handed down.
Research must be done to avoid wasting valuable time and resources. If a story is to be believed and followed there needs to be proof.
While I agree and have seen many strange and unusual things in the Sups (and in other mountains) I would like to see some proof to back up the story told by Starman.
To say that a library of the ancients was found and removed without sharing proof is inconclusive. To keep this knowledge secret is an insult to history and the American people.
It's like the Catholic church and the Smithsonian keeping stockpiles of ancient manuscripts hidden from everyone. What are they afraid that the world would learn?
Share the proof with us or explain why you think you are a better guardian of history and truth. np

 

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[somehiker]

"There's a starman waiting in the sky
He'd like to come and meet us
But he thinks he'd blow our minds
There's a starman waiting in the sky
He"s told us not to blow it
Cause he knows it's all worthwhile"

I don't think we will ever see any photos from Ziggy....just sayin

 

[markmar]

NP

What are they afraid that the world would learn?

Maybe about

" ... a continental immersing from paranoid SIN of Moon, through use of the Lunar technology ADDITIONAL GRAVITY which had altered the static of the Atlantic subsoil."

Source from G.H.Rees (Group of the Greeks Restoration) book .

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Starman. A friend found a cave near Tucson. Above the cave entrance on top of the hill is a huge stone bird Under the bird is the cave with this figure on the back wall. Mt friend called it the Egyptian Princess. He also said at the base of this figure was a cap stone that rang hollow when hit. A depository?


View attachment 1046136

And what was 'Mt friend's' sob story for not finding out?

 

[sgtfda]

He died. You can't do much after that in this world

 

[GarretDiggingAz]

Back again - muchas gracias Joe for the kind words, I could very easily say the same about you! I don't wish to anger or insult anyone over the Tucson artifacts. I do not know who or whom created them, nor buried them, nor their reason(s) so anything attempting to address those issues runs into pure speculation. So if anything I said is offensive, my apologies and no offense was intended. I can't see any ancient people(s) traveling from the Old World, using lead alloy swords or spear heads. The metal is simply too soft, even with antimony added for hardener, as most bullet-casting folks can attest. It helps, but not enough to use as an edged hand weapon unless in the form of a club or mace or projectile. IF the artifacts were intended to be an archaeological hoax, the logical items to make from lead would have been sling bullets, which were often shaped like a football, and could be inscribed by the owners. Archaeologists have been shocked to find ancient Greek sling bullets inscribed with terms like "take that!" Or spindle whorls, lamps, many other items could have been made up fairly easily (there is a regular industry today making fake clay "ancient Roman" lamps in fact) so the obvious question is what the purpose of these Tucson artifacts really was? I propose that their intended function was DECORATIVE, or ornamental, to use in some kind of quasi-temple or actual temple; as to what group would be associated, I do not know the answer. My personal guess is some Mormon group, possibly a splinter group which was neither numerous nor continued to exist to our day. The link or perhaps key is in the mention of the Toltecs, which as you know is prominent in Mormon thinking about the history of ancient America. One other point here but the source of the metal used for making the Tucson artifacts might have been linotype metal, used for newspaper printing type. It was possible to buy this (used) fairly cheaply for many years, melts readily and makes good detailed castings hence the use for making letter type. For those convinced that the Tucson artifacts are the genuine article, along with the story they tell of a Roman/Samaritan Jewish colony in southwestern America circa 8th century AD, I do keep the door open so will certainly listen to any argument or view any evidence proposed to support it. I have read Covey's book (some years ago and do not own a copy) and also several articles supporting them as genuine, as well as participated in a somewhat lengthy and interesting discussion on another forum (LDMA) which raised many interesting points. I would sooner discuss the possibility, even probability, of Old World visitors dating hundreds or even several thousand years before the time period supposed for Calalus, and not some massive colony/pseudo-empire warring with Toltecs and Olmecs etc. The Los Lunas decalogue (which I prefer to spell with a k, as was formerly correct) is one example of a 'calling card' left by visitors from across the seas. The sailing directions left near Pyramid lake in Nevada are another, and then there are the mysterious seven-mile long stone walls in California, which no one seems to agree as to who or whom built them, nor how old they really are. The Norse sagas tell of voyages made to Vinland to obtain a cargo of lumber to bring back to Europe and sell - just as Diodorus and Aristotle tell of Carthaginians traveling to their "secret" land for lumber, gold, silver, jewels and fish. These types of expeditions (besides being logical) would not leave behind massive stone ruins of ancient cities, nor much of any evidence, just scattered graffiti as most explorers have left and the occasional artifact like the "Roman" stone statue head found in . I realize that our historians completely dismiss this idea (except for a few) although the current dogma of Isolationist theory will not hold water. <copyright Romeo Hristov, borrowed under Fair Use provisions, from the interesting article online at: Roman Head from Mexico > It is somewhat of a waste of time to discuss such questionable items as the Tucson artifacts. There are issues with them that point to a modern origin. Unless some compelling evidence should surface to support them, I don't see how we might profit by studying them in detail. I am happy to re-examine the topic if and when such evidence(s) might be brought forward. I will go out on the proverbial limb even farther and state that I am 100% confident that solid evidence of ancient Mediterranean visitors is to be found in the Tucson/Phoenix/Globe area, as well as along the Colorado river. But perhaps this is all too far off-topic and should be in a separate thread. While I was typing this up I see new posts appeared, and in particular Garry mentioned a 'confession' by one of the creator(s) of the Tucson artifacts. I would be interested in seeing that, if anyone can post it? Thank you in advance. I have to sign off but will try to pop in later this evening. Coffee anyone? Oroblanco

Hey oroblanco
Just started reading this thread. I've always been interested in our history, but never got fully immersed in it. I've heard possibly you or somebody else even mention the Norse settlements, which was something we weren't taught in school. Settlements out here in sw region. I do agree with you that the Mediterranean visitors could possibly be found along the Colorado river. Makes total sense. Actually hard to believe that some sort of relics haven't been discovered, but then again it could be buried under dozens of feet of overburden.
Just wonder how they'd get towards Globe. Unless of course they had the route from Aztecs or other tribes traded with. Or the chase of minerals might have already lead them to that area as well.
One of the topics I'm not certain about being mentioned on is the Mayan (or is it Aztec?) civilization that they think may have been in northern part of the US.
This I think would explain those courts mentioned earlier.
Thanks for posting. I do try to explore the hills often, but I leave the LDM and others for those who desire it. I just hope to find some color and if by chance I stumble across a lost cache. That's even better.

 

[Oroblanco]

Hey oroblanco
Just started reading this thread. I've always been interested in our history, but never got fully immersed in it. I've heard possibly you or somebody else even mention the Norse settlements, which was something we weren't taught in school. Settlements out here in sw region. I do agree with you that the Mediterranean visitors could possibly be found along the Colorado river. Makes total sense. Actually hard to believe that some sort of relics haven't been discovered, but then again it could be buried under dozens of feet of overburden.
Just wonder how they'd get towards Globe. Unless of course they had the route from Aztecs or other tribes traded with. Or the chase of minerals might have already lead them to that area as well.
One of the topics I'm not certain about being mentioned on is the Mayan (or is it Aztec?) civilization that they think may have been in northern part of the US.
This I think would explain those courts mentioned earlier.
Thanks for posting. I do try to explore the hills often, but I leave the LDM and others for those who desire it. I just hope to find some color and if by chance I stumble across a lost cache. That's even better.

Thanks for the kind words amigo - and as to how ancient explorers reached Globe, I was referring to the area using that as a marker, not to mean specifically in Globe there are inscriptions. Unfortunately when carved markings are found in remote areas, we treasure hunters almost automatically think "Spanish" as a knee-jerk reaction, without stopping to look hard and find out who really made them. Some of those ancient peoples were very good prospectors, referring to Phoenicians and Carthaginians especially, they did not just sail up rivers but searched well inland for gold, silver, copper and tin just as the Spanish and Americans did.

Good luck and good hunting to you amigo, I Hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Thanks for the kind words amigo - and as to how ancient explorers reached Globe, I was referring to the area using that as a marker, not to mean specifically in Globe there are inscriptions. Unfortunately when carved markings are found in remote areas, we treasure hunters almost automatically think "Spanish" as a knee-jerk reaction, without stopping to look hard and find out who really made them. Some of those ancient peoples were very good prospectors, referring to Phoenicians and Carthaginians especially, they did not just sail up rivers but searched well inland for gold, silver, copper and tin just as the Spanish and Americans did.

Good luck and good hunting to you amigo, I Hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

Yes, good luck GarretD - keep alert for things that look out of place.

The Rio Grande Valley is a much easier entry/exit into/out of North America. There have been a number of Mediterranean-appearing petroglyphs found on both sides of the river in New Mexico from the Las Cruces area north to the Decalogue Stone on the Rio Pueco, west of Los Lunas. There's also evidence of a semi-permanent military-style encampment on the top of the hill above the stone.

Many of the carving site locations are somewhat guarded, as those in the know seem to want to protect the sites from vandalism. The Decalogue Stone's recent damage is a good example of why some of the other sites are 'secret'. That said, photos are available here and there and several YouTube videos show very interesting panels without divulging specific locations. From the Las Cruces area, the carvings also extend westerly bypassing the hills and mountains, generally following the old trails and springs that eventually became the Butterfield Trail, the railroad grade and today's modern highways.

It's not too hard to visualize a route following, say, the Butterfield Trail west from the Rio Grande to the Doubtful Canyon approach, then north to the Gila River near Virden, then down the Gila in Arizona to San Carlos, then up to Globe. This is a fairly easy trip - lots of water and mild grades.

 

[starman 1]

The way

Gentlemen:

If you wish to understand something you must engage it. You must remove from your mind the perceptions that what is right in front of you cannot be because your paradigms will be challenged. The way to discovery is littered with the minds of individuals who could not do this. Are the Tucson Artifacts such a frightening thing that you will do anything to not look at them and try to understand what is going on. You cannot interpret the Artifacts in terms of the history you are familiar with. The artifacts are a testament to that history being wrong. Simply accept it and let it go or take a leap of faith and recognize what you don`t know cannot hurt you and embark on a adventure. After all the world is not flat and maybe it is far more beautiful than you can imagine.

Roy,

I still do not understand why you are even interested in all of this. You have not read the basic text, "The Tucson Artifacts", by Thomas Bent, you have not visited the artifacts and faced that which you have indicated is such a fraud. You wish to convict the artifacts without even taking the time to give them a fair hearing. Not much real history going on here that I can see. Whether or not it is a burden to get your hands dirty surely visiting a library and reading something that does not conform to your pre-existing world view of the artifacts is not too much to ask. Too much of that type of commentary is going on as it is.

As far as pictures, and posting the Critias goes or anything else you simply have not earned that. The contents of the library beyond what has posted is for those who have earned it not those who simply take it.

You seem to be quite familiar with the law. Earlier I asked you to think about how all of this could be true and no laws have been violated. You may want to visit that question again. Because the answer is right in front of you.

The sites we have mentioned were discovered by the people because of an ancient text. At the time of the destruction of Calalus the sites were sealed up, except for the above ground settlements. Years later our adventurers returned and cared for the holy. From that point till today is over a 1000 years. We had plenty of time to accomplish whatever was important before the United States even existed.

Sgtfda,

That is a fascinating photo. However I have to say I do not recognize it. An associate located something a bit like that but it was south of the Superstitions I will have to take a look at some pictures. But believe that carving is different.

For those of you who believe additional clues are required. I would recommend you take the time to read my last post the answer is right there.

And it seems the point could be made that what is the point anyway if you are not willing to do the work to understand what has been posted.

For now you have everything you need.




Starman

 

[sgtfda]

Starman

This site is east of Tucson. The cave under a huge natural stone bird. Had a photo of the bird somewhere. I have a general idea of the location with some pre GE photos. My friend passed before I moved to Az.
The Myth Busters had a King Arthur segment. He was said to have been buried with a lead cross. Thought that was interesting. It's easy to understand why lead would be used for ceremonial items.
I've found in life you can learn something from everyone. Sometimes things connect in very strange ways. It is foolish to dismiss others ideas outright. As my wife said, "laugh now, cry later".

 

[Oroblanco]

Roy,

I still do not understand why you are even interested in all of this. You have not read the basic text, "The Tucson Artifacts", by Thomas Bent, you have not visited the artifacts and faced that which you have indicated is such a fraud. You wish to convict the artifacts without even taking the time to give them a fair hearing. Not much real history going on here that I can see. Whether or not it is a burden to get your hands dirty surely visiting a library and reading something that does not conform to your pre-existing world view of the artifacts is not too much to ask. Too much of that type of commentary is going on as it is.

I am very far from an armchair theorist. You on the other hand, well I sure do not know about your credentials. You presume that I have read nothing and know nothing of these artifacts in question, as if you had any idea of what I have studied. So about those tablets Starman1, when are you going to post a photo of them and show us that Atlantian writing? Or at least describe how they are written, whether right to left, vertical, etc and is it in alphabetic letters, hieroglyphs, cuneiform or what? You volunteered that they are a "copper alloy" well now describe that writing on them, if you will not post a photo of at least one such tablet.

Starman1 also wrote

As far as pictures, and posting the Critias goes or anything else you simply have not earned that. The contents of the library beyond what has posted is for those who have earned it not those who simply take it.

So you define the criteria as to who or whom can see or know this mass of information/library you claim exists? Who appointed you as official knowledge master? You do not know anything about me, nor of many of the people on this forum. Likewise, you are apparently afraid to even state your real name, which hardly builds confidence in your veracity. Are you afraid to put your real name to the stories you have posted?

Starman1 also wrote

You seem to be quite familiar with the law. Earlier I asked you to think about how all of this could be true and no laws have been violated. You may want to visit that question again. Because the answer is right in front of you.

The sites we have mentioned were discovered by the people because of an ancient text. At the time of the destruction of Calalus the sites were sealed up, except for the above ground settlements. Years later our adventurers returned and cared for the holy. From that point till today is over a 1000 years. We had plenty of time to accomplish whatever was important before the United States even existed.



Starman

Ah, so now the story evolves to set that illegal digging, theft and smuggling, far back in time so as to avoid the legal entanglements? Sorry but that is not what you had claimed earlier. So which version of this part of the story should we believe? How did "your people" guard those sites, without knowing where they were?

I had hoped to be done with this thread, not sure why you keep addressing anything to me, since you refuse to post any solid evidence to support your stories and claims, much less answer the many questions surrounding Calalus and now the Atlantis/Oz tale, you won't even state your real name. Had you sent your real name in a PM, and said that you did not want it public, I could readily understand that, but you did not think to do that. Why do you put SO much emphasis on Bent's work for that matter, as if he was the greatest archaeologist of all time, when there are other books and articles on them, like Covey's which fell very short of convincing me personally. I must assume this whole tale you have presented over now at least two forums that I know of, over several years time, is leading to some kind of end result you aim for, perhaps a book? If so, I wish you good luck, it should sell well as people love novels.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. I won't bore you all further unless to respond to something directed to me, as this has proven to be a circular argument trying to sell us a tale built on the Calalus artifacts and story, which in itself is questionable.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

You will never get anywhere with this one man crowd. What you are asking for can not be given. They don't have any pictures.......period. You will soon have the Bent Manuscript, written by a man with no archaeological experience whatsoever.

On the other hand, he does denigrate some of the best in the field, because they dare to disagree with his conclusions. I find it interesting that they have all revealed more history than Ben has hidden, which is nothing.

O

Take care,

Joe

P.S. I have a great deal of research material on Custer, from both sides of the story. I would be more than happy to look into......whatever.

Joe

 

[txtea]

All I want to know is....can I use my city library card to get into this "library of Oz"?
And are there tin foil hats available at the entrance for rent?

 

[hooch]

After the holocaust, there were fewer than 200 survivors. Our people spread east and settled in what became the states of Georgia, the Carolinas, and as far north as New York. We do suspect however that some survivors made their way south and perhaps a few made their way back to the Middle East. Eventually the biggest colony would migrate to South Africa for reasons that are not important to this discussion.

Starman

You are the poster boy for prescription medicine. I saw your photo on the wall in my doctors office.

 

[Tnmountains]

Once again please keep the title on topic or the thread ends. Thank you.

 

[Not Peralta]

ALL WE ASK FOR IS PROOF, HAVE SOME , NP PS,WE ALWAYS GET WHAT WE WANT, PROOF

 

[Oroblanco]

ALL WE ASK FOR IS PROOF, HAVE SOME , NP PS,WE ALWAYS GET WHAT WE WANT, PROOF

Ditto, what he said.

 

[sgtfda]

Here's a bird. It look anything like that? <img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1047483"/>

No it looked like a bird with its wings partially spread sitting on top of the hill. The whole top was the bird. Just like a statue. Under the bird is the cave

 

[cactusjumper]

We have been batting around this Calalus story since, around, 2007. Almost no one believes or trusts the source. I, personally, have spent many dollars and a good deal of time trying to find some truth in the tale. I remain, totally, unconvinced at this time.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[lost]

How are you guys getting around the report these artifacts were made from melted automobile battery lead?