new show on the dutchman

[TheHarleyMan2]

Somehiker - while I respect your persuasion - if the biggest harm to me (and others) doing this is being a target of guano.....bring an umbrella.

The issue is, for me, that the series will get people climbing that ladder that have no business in the superstitions and people will get hurt. Not everyone is on this website, nor will they go and read these posts.

On top of that, I think it'd be great to call out the production company.

I understand if you aren't "in" - but perhaps others here will be. If not, I'll collect some of my experienced hiking and adventure buddies and front the cost on my own.

Also as a side note - drones are not buzzing chainsaws - they are actually very quiet....which is why there is a big controversy in getting them banned. There has been problems with less than admirable people flying them into people's backyards to watch women go tanning. You can't hear them....at least the "good" ones.

They were also used heavily in the production of the series.

I appreciate your comments.

Hell, I would be in! A drone sounds like a good idea, especially to detect if there is wild predators in the caves. Only problem I would see would be the radio frequency between the controller and the drone inside a cave and the further into the cave may end up causing the drone to drop to the floor if it lost the frequency to fly.

I wouldn't mind scouting out around some mountain ranges in Arizona. I will be at Ft Hauchuca next month and I will be scouting out around those mountains around there on the weekends when time off, unless I go out to East Phoenix!

 

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[deducer]

Somehiker - while I respect your persuasion - if the biggest harm to me (and others) doing this is being a target of guano.....bring an umbrella.

The issue is, for me, that the series will get people climbing that ladder that have no business in the superstitions and people will get hurt. Not everyone is on this website, nor will they go and read these posts.

On top of that, I think it'd be great to call out the production company.

I understand if you aren't "in" - but perhaps others here will be. If not, I'll collect some of my experienced hiking and adventure buddies and front the cost on my own.

Also as a side note - drones are not buzzing chainsaws - they are actually very quiet....which is why there is a big controversy in getting them banned. There has been problems with less than admirable people flying them into people's backyards to watch women go tanning. You can't hear them....at least the "good" ones.

They were also used heavily in the production of the series.

I appreciate your comments.

Can't fly a drone you can't see.

Don't think you have been to the cave, so I'll tell you it's a hell of a lot bigger in person than it is on TV. It's about 100 foot from the bottom to the top, and a drone gets pretty tiny at that distance, so hopefully your vision is 20/20 or better.

But the problem is when you fly that drone up there, it's going to disappear before it gets anywhere near the crevice because your eyes are adjusted to daylight, not the darkness of the cave.

So guano ain't gonna be the only thing raining down on you.

P.S. no need to call out the production company- when they cut away to the fake cave, there was suddenly no bat, no guano. That's bad enough in its own right.

 

[Hal Croves]

Somehiker - while I respect your persuasion - if the biggest harm to me (and others) doing this is being a target of guano.....bring an umbrella.

The issue is, for me, that the series will get people climbing that ladder that have no business in the superstitions and people will get hurt. Not everyone is on this website, nor will they go and read these posts.

On top of that, I think it'd be great to call out the production company.

I understand if you aren't "in" - but perhaps others here will be. If not, I'll collect some of my experienced hiking and adventure buddies and front the cost on my own.

Also as a side note - drones are not buzzing chainsaws - they are actually very quiet....which is why there is a big controversy in getting them banned. There has been problems with less than admirable people flying them into people's backyards to watch women go tanning. You can't hear them....at least the "good" ones.

They were also used heavily in the production of the series.

I appreciate your comments.

Someone skilled in the art of climbing would be a far better investment. Let them ascend and secure a rope and harness for you. Rig a pulley for your gear and Woodie and Shazam, your in. Then, once you are up there, you can document the cave in relative safety. If you do go, pay attention to Somehikers warnings about a respirator and the heat. No B.S. The combination of heat and noxious gas is a real danger.

Or you can be a true gentleman and simply let the cast finish what they started.
If you go, be safe and tread lightly.

 

[azdave35]

I agree with you, @TheHarleyMan2.

I believe that I will have to use some sort of trust with the explanation of where the "Cross Cave" was in respect to the ladder. How I understood it was it was right at the top-end base of the ladder. So assuming that is true, I should be able to fly the drone to the top of the ladder and face it into the cave with the LED lights illuminating the entire area - without actually flying it into the cave. The new GoPro's are 4K now, so the resolution should provide stellar results.

The newer GoPro's come with a high strength Bluetooth adaptor, so I can monitor the movement from my iPhone / iPad. (the world is so high tech these days!)

I should be able to do all of this from the base of the ladder, looking up.

It would have made great TV to have the guys on the bottom getting crapped on & attacked by flying rats as SomeHiker suggested! I don't "believe" it will be an issue. I'll bring some umbrellas just in case.

I doubt there would be any wild predators in the caves - unless of course somehow the production company mysteriously planted a Pterodactyl up there!

I appreciate your support and enthusiasm!

well..you better hope its legal to use a drone in that bat cave..you have just told the whole world on a public forum what you are planning to do and believe me the feds monitor all these forums...if you do anything to upset those bats environment the feds will come down on you like a ton of bricks...you will lose everything you own and possibly your freedom

 

[deducer]

I agree with you, @TheHarleyMan2.

I believe that I will have to use some sort of trust with the explanation of where the "Cross Cave" was in respect to the ladder. How I understood it was it was right at the top-end base of the ladder. So assuming that is true, I should be able to fly the drone to the top of the ladder and face it into the cave with the LED lights illuminating the entire area - without actually flying it into the cave. The new GoPro's are 4K now, so the resolution should provide stellar results.

The newer GoPro's come with a high strength Bluetooth adaptor, so I can monitor the movement from my iPhone / iPad. (the world is so high tech these days!)

I should be able to do all of this from the base of the ladder, looking up.

It would have made great TV to have the guys on the bottom getting crapped on & attacked by flying rats as SomeHiker suggested! I don't "believe" it will be an issue. I'll bring some umbrellas just in case.

I doubt there would be any wild predators in the caves - unless of course somehow the production company mysteriously planted a Pterodactyl up there!

I appreciate your support and enthusiasm!

While the new GP4 does have 4k, and boasts 6400 ISO as its lowest setting, getting anywhere that is going to cause quite a bit of grain and strobing due to forced slow-shutter speed, so you won't be getting optimal images. And you won't be able to monitor via your iphone because signal strength is non-existent in that canyon.

I appreciate your gung-ho attitude and motivation, but let me give you a little insight: Wayne, Frank, and some of others are active DH'ers. And they are far from being dumb.

Think about that for a moment- do you think any DH'er in their right mind would give up an area they're actively searching? Or would they give millions of TV viewers an area far away from where they're searching?

 

[Hal Croves]

I wouldn't think badly of you if I found out you created El Gato and said you found new evidence for treasure. In fact there are plenty of El Gato's out there in the wilderness! You just have to not be dinner plans for them!

In ALL HONESTY, I love treasure hunting stories and legends and I have no beefs or issues with the characters. Many here has studied treasure legends and been boots on the ground more than I will ever be! If I lived in an area like that where there is that kind of history, I would be spending weeks and weekends out there every chance I could get.

So with that said, I understand reality TV and the producers claim entertainment, etc. But what got me on the discussed of the show was showing BS newly planted "black hand" prints, the story of "Black Legion" that DOES NOT exist, the bogus medicine wheel, and whatever else was showed after the 2nd episode that I didn't watch. I understand on trying to pull BS over people who have not heard of the treasure/legend, or doesn't know any better, but when you got people that has some sort of sense to know what is and what isn't, that makes it a whole new ball game.

If I was in any of the characters places, I would have told the producers, we can discuss things on the legends and tell what the old stories were and follow along the treasure trails figuring out where the mines were. But planting BS things down to "misrepresent" what actually is doesn't make for good ratings. People are tired of watching BS stuff on TV and want to see something factual and real!

So when you want to go on the search for El Gato?

I am convinced that if I go while hiking alone in the Sups, it's gonna be because of some half starved cat. No kidding. Tracks everywhere near Tortilla and the smell of piss is unforgettable. I recently watched the video of the young man who fell into the tiger pit in India. At least it's fast.

 

[somehiker]

This is where you plan on sending that drone into. Just so you know.
Everything you want to get video of, is way up there and out of sight.
There is very little room to maneuver, and one mistake will mean the loss of your expensive drone.
That's why Eric had to go up, they couldn't use the drone.

 

[azdave35]

My intention is not to go find gold - I don't believe there is any. My intention is to gather data and post it on YouTube to save some poor money hungry adventurer to be death #251. (according to the stats on the series)

There is no cross in that cave - and the only way to prove it, without dramatics, is to have unedited footage to prove it.

If you guys enjoy watching TV where you are being lied to and manipulated, that is an M.O. that I don't side with.

I was out at TF / AJ earlier today - the place is packed of tourists, many of which barely speak english, wanting to go search for gold thanks to this series. It's sad...

i'm not at all worried about the bats..what i'm concerned about is the feds closing the area because of all the idiots rushing up to the cave to see the cross that isnt there...i've seen them do it a hundred times..there used to be a road going up to that area but the feds closed it to keep idiots out

 

[deducer]

My intention is not to go find gold - I don't believe there is any. My intention is to gather data and post it on YouTube to save some poor money hungry adventurer to be death #251. (according to the stats on the series)

There is no cross in that cave - and the only way to prove it, without dramatics, is to have unedited footage to prove it.

If you guys enjoy watching TV where you are being lied to and manipulated, that is an M.O. that I don't side with.

I was out at TF / AJ earlier today - the place is packed of tourists, many of which barely speak english, wanting to go search for gold thanks to this series. It's sad...


Check out this video that someone made flying this exact drone thru the Superstition canyons, above the peaks, etc. Its such a beautiful area!

Flying Apache Trail

Even if you obtained unedited, crystal clear footage that proves beyond a doubt that Go-Go Luckey faked the whole thing, and posted it and managed to get a million views, you are still not going to stop anyone who's determined and crazy enough to risk his life going up there. That is going to happen, no matter what anyone says.

Just look at your answer to Somehiker. He is telling you to save the trip because you're expending a lot of energy to prove what most of us already know, yet you're taking it the wrong way.

Once more, nobody went up into that cave. Eric went up halfway then they cut to another, different cave. Oldest trick in the movie business.

 

[azdave35]

A nationally syndicated TV network series will do that much faster than a few buddies and a drone. As mentioned, the area is PACKED full of people looking for Dutchman Gold in relation to the series.

just remember..we did try to talk some sense into you...the last adventurer i knew that ventured into a cave full of bat droppings got hanta virus

 

[Azquester]

Someone skilled in the art of climbing would be a far better investment. Let them ascend and secure a rope and harness for you. Rig a pulley for your gear and Woodie and Shazam, your in. Then, once you are up there, you can document the cave in relative safety. If you do go, pay attention to Somehikers warnings about a respirator and the heat. No B.S. The combination of heat and noxious gas is a real danger.

Or you can be a true gentleman and simply let the cast finish what they started.
If you go, be safe and tread lightly.

You know your right Hal. I spent the holiday at the only real still standing Mining town in southern AZ. once. It was town called Ruby.
The Main Tunnel had collapsed up on the side of a small mountain. You could go up there and look at it but the smell was so bad you would almost pass out from it coming out of that old mine! The neat factor was you could still see about five or six levels in that massive cave in and each level had something different in it like mining tools standing against the side, ore carts, etc.

At twilight the sky would turn black as the millions of Bats came out after dark it took about 45 minutes for all of them to depart that mine!


You didn't want to be near it when that took place.

Be safe and don't slip slightly on Guano.

 

[azdave35]

Thanks to everyone for their comments, words of caution, etc. I didn't realize that folks here on this forum would be so opposed to this idea, or I wouldn't have spent the time to sign up and post.

I see things differently & thats okay.

I believe I made myself clear that I wasn't "venturing" into a cave (more dramatics with a virus from azdave35). The drone isn't going to crash because I cannot see where its going (deducer - look at the pictures posted of drone specs) The area is definitely big enough (somehiker) The drone isn't going to come down and crash on me with its massive range and "return home feature" (deducer) The signal strength non-existent (deducer - watch the video above) Going to jail for using a drone - even though there is proof these are used all the time (azdave) Information on local weather to a native from a Canadian (somehiker). Disturbing bats and getting the feds on me (azdave35 - who later changed his position)

I'll go about my business with the drone and wish the best of luck to all of you. Tough crowd here with a lot of negativity.

we arent being negative..we are just stating the facts...some of us in here have many years of experience in the supers...we are just trying to save you alot of mysery..we have been up there and its a tough place ..you dont see us jumping to our feet and running up to that cave just because it was on tv,,there is a reason for that..we already know what is there and we are trying to tell you but you wont listen...almost like your calling us liars

 

[johnmark29020]

the locals have known about that cave for years and quite a few people have been in it...there is no cross..no treasure..just bat doo-doo..the ladder was put there years ago to mine guano...get that through your head..all your doing is getting idiots worked up to go try and pry the cross out of the cave..believe me..if there was a cross in that cave some idiot would have pried it out long ago

My post had nothing to do with a cross in a cave. I was talking about the impossible position the guys from the show have landed. No matter what they do or say. Someone will be complaining about what they said or did. Also they are getting blamed for decision made by the history channel after they were under contract.
Frank said he wished the history channel had not planted the fake stuff,because it made them all look bad. Still people are blaming the crew. I didn't tell anyone to climb that ladder. Imho if you are stupid enough to.climb that latter. Its only a matter of time before you get hurt no matter what someone says.
Now as far as the locals. I know a few of them. I even know some of the snow birds. They are all good people. Some agree with the work I've done. Some think I'm bat s crazy. Im not a arm chair prospectors. I have been there and seen many beautiful things, but I also tell people all the time how rough it us out there. Especially the GE people. GE is a lieing peace of technology when applied to the sups.
My suggestion to you is to read a post at least twice so you can understand what is being said.
When I saw your remark to me. I reread it to see if I did say something that might encourage a dumb butt. No I didn't.
The other day misread "a post and the guys here called me on it. I reread the post saw my mistake and apologized for the mistake. So I will assume thats what you did. Misread my post and got to the wrong conclusion about what I was saying.
Those who know me .know I want the sites to be protected. I dont want gold hungery people anywhere near those mtns. Peroid. So just to be clear. My post was about the impossible position the crew is in over the show. Eitherway they cant win,because they cant make everyone happy.
If you are so concerned about people being lead to their death through the written word. Then maybe you should protest the hundreds of books about treasure being lost or hidden in those mtns. Really man. I am laughing at the thought of my little comment causing people to risk their lives. When the museum,the internet,and countless and tv shows about those mtn are sold and watched on a daily bases.
The real researchers are no where near there. Some idiot cant tell the difference between. Reality and a tv show.

I edited a couple of lines here because I got mixed up with another poster. I left only what still applied. Sorry for thr mix up.

 

[bigtimedeal]

Sometimes you have to ask a question knowing it will make you look like a rube. That said...

"The bat cave" I've seen on the forum pics looks like a narrow vertical crevice, while the cave from ep 6 looks very different. Are we sure this is one and the same cave?

Also, did they actually have to access this area via boat? I actually thought it added to the adventure of the show - which we all know is entertainment and not a 100% historically accurate documentary

Thanks, from someone who has yet to step foot in AZ and who has no intention of going in these caves

 

[djui5]

1458 posts about a show you all "hate". I love it

 

[deducer]

Thanks to everyone for their comments, words of caution, etc. I didn't realize that folks here on this forum would be so opposed to this idea, or I wouldn't have spent the time to sign up and post.

I see things differently & thats okay.

I believe I made myself clear that I wasn't "venturing" into a cave (more dramatics with a virus from azdave35). The drone isn't going to crash because I cannot see where its going (deducer - look at the pictures posted of drone specs) The area is definitely big enough (somehiker) The drone isn't going to come down and crash on me with its massive range and "return home feature" (deducer) The signal strength non-existent (deducer - watch the video above) Going to jail for using a drone - even though there is proof these are used all the time (azdave) Information on local weather to a native from a Canadian (somehiker). Disturbing bats and getting the feds on me (azdave35 - who later changed his position)

I'll go about my business with the drone and wish the best of luck to all of you. Tough crowd here with a lot of negativity.

Specs look good on paper, but reality is something else.

Return home feature ain't worth nothing when you crash or bump that thing into solid rock and it loses a motor or the gyroscope jams, then it'll return "home" in a hurry, alright. That is, if you can catch it before it nosedives into the guano.

Information on local weather to a native from a Canadian (somehiker).

Thanks for the good laugh; haven't had one in a long time.

 

[johnmark29020]

Thanks to everyone for their comments, words of caution, etc. I didn't realize that folks here on this forum would be so opposed to this idea, or I wouldn't have spent the time to sign up and post.

I see things differently & thats okay.

I believe I made myself clear that I wasn't "venturing" into a cave (more dramatics with a virus from azdave35). The drone isn't going to crash because I cannot see where its going (deducer - look at the pictures posted of drone specs) The area is definitely big enough (somehiker) The drone isn't going to come down and crash on me with its massive range and "return home feature" (deducer) The signal strength non-existent (deducer - watch the video above) Going to jail for using a drone - even though there is proof these are used all the time (azdave) Information on local weather to a native from a Canadian (somehiker). Disturbing bats and getting the feds on me (azdave35 - who later changed his position)

I'll go about my business with the drone and wish the best of luck to all of you. Tough crowd here with a lot of negativity.

I know you mean well,but despite all the complaints about the terrain,and heat.
They need people to believe and buy books. They need them to visit the museum and the ghost town. I have done all of those things and they were the most fun I have ever had.
I am like you. I wish they had stayed in the cayon and claimed to find the cross in a different cave. Using the bat cave was a bad idea. People are going to be all over the area for sometime now. Landmarks will be destroyed for sure,and someone is going to get hurt.
Still they need to keep the legend alive. The local economy relies on it. Im sure they were careful to pick the lest dangerous area to use for the show. At
least I hope they did.
I was one of those idiots newbies and learned alot from these guys here. Some are negative,but most are only trying to keep you safe. There good guys at heart.
About your drone my x partner wanted to use one at our site. In the end we decided not to because of the wind,and how quick batteries run out. It some kind of magnetic thing. We took fully charged batteries to our site,and they were almost dead when we turned them on. Real bad in the mtns.
Lets hope the excitement dies down quickly,and no one or landmarks get hurt in the meantime.
I must tip my hat to all the people who lived in those mtns. Miners and cowboys a like. They had to be really though people. Thats the real treasure anyway. The stories about the people of the superstition mtns. History could do a long running series about them alone. Very colorful people. Imagine all the jobs that were created by those people looking for treasure during the depression. Buying supplies. Food,and renting rooms. Plus alot more. Their activities back then had to help the local economy.

 

[deducer]

An adventuring mind (which all of us share) wants to know the facts.

Just to clarify, nobody is discouraging you from going on an adventure. There is plenty to be found in the Supes, for sure.

But going to the Bat Cave as if nobody has been there before, or tried what you are going to do, is just a little bit delusional.

 

[wrmickel1]

1458 posts about a show you all "hate". I love it

Not all of us! I like the show, but most of the comments about someone wanting to use a drone are silly. If he's into the high Tech Treasure Hunting so who are they to say no. Its the direction the new wave treasure hunters are going.

Good luck, and do as you wish, DroneMan

Wrmickel1

 

[i am the horse]

Why so much persuasion from you, Somehiker? A major part of being an adventurer is to find truths. The image you provided makes me even more secure in my ambitions. Given the width of the drone (350 mm) - and watching a 5'8" - 6'2" actor climb that ladder on last nights episode, proves beyond doubt that there will be plenty of room to navigate.

Is there something up there that you know, and I don't? You are using every excuse possible to try and talk me out of this? Any logical reason?

The reason "Eric" went up there is a makes great TV. A drone doesn't make great TV....It's too safe. There is no worry - there is no angst - there is no wondering if he is going to slip on one of the rungs, as was consistently precautioned against during the episode last night. Also keep in mind, there was a camera man up there, and probably a medic as well, to ensure the financial security of the production company. So 3 people in a cave....no bats....no bat droppings....no being dive-bombed by bats.....and you're worried about a 350mm drone that is silent. Please....explain. (again, with all due respect) If there is something I am missing here, please say.

You are darn right there is something up there. They found a cross up there on the show. And alot of people will probably go there and for good reason.Hopefully the people that sold the showtook care of all the legalities concerning the finds on the show. I dont believe it wasput out there as a reenactment. It didnt say that it was. No disclaimers at the beginnings of the shows. And i belive they will face a huge lawsuit when a person dies climbing that ladder. Happy hunting, now go find that treasure you all seek where the cross was found.as for the people on the show, i dont think they care what everybody thinks of them. They made some money and i guess and that is what makes the world go round. That worthless piece of paper with a dollar amount on it.