JULIA THOMAS

[Blindbowman]

like we need a nother president up for election ...lol

 

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[Ellie Baba]

quote author=Cubfan64 link=topic=85371.msg2469771#msg2469771 date=1281820156]
Ellie, I'm probably just thick in the head, but what are you trying to imply by posting the Schaffer mining claim? I know at least a few of us are familiar with it.
[/quote]
Cubfan,

I had the same problem with algebra. I am trying to get everyone on the same page and I know that this is a difficult task. I had stated earlier that this would be a difficult study to get through so please bear with me.

You have to recognize what the claim is telling you; does it not say, “Look the LDM is here!” Why did Julia leave the Soups and go to the Pima Villages to file The “Montezuma Mining Claim”? Is this truly the real location of the Lost Dutchman Mine? Of course not; and Julia knew this all too well.

I had thought, for some reason, that you all would read and hopefully understand my reasoning relating to Julia's abandonment of a super rich gold mine. All of us as Dutch Hunters have spent our lives trying to figure out where the mine is located and quite possibly become somewhat the wealthier for our efforts. With the knowledge I have in hand it seems neither will benefit me.

Julia Thomas knew Jacob Waltz personally and if she really knew the clues to help her locate the mine she would have spent her time with the friends she had made and they could have eventually figured out where the mine was located. Well, at least they went through the motions to make it all look good to the public's eye and she even sold some maps to spread the word through the streets of Phoenix that a very rich lost mine did indeed exist. Then along came Pierpoint and "walla". They all did their jobs as planned and soon went their separate ways... Why? The LDM Legend had been set in motion, you see, they were all on the same team and together they created the Lost Dutchman Legend. The LDM had to work to keep people away from the real treasures that the Stone Maps are referring to.
Hope this sheds some light on the subject and I need to give you all some hard fact evidence that I do possess. How to do it... that is another problem.

OK; who can tell me the legal location of the 160 acres owned by Jacob Waltz? Section, Township, Range, etc. This property was later sold, transferred, quick claim or? to Andrew Starar. Whoever can answer these questions correctly will allow me to share a secret, one that I believe has never crossed one’s mind pertaining to this piece of property.

Let’s see who knows the answer...

Later,

Ellie Baba

 

[Oroblanco]

Ellie Baba wrote

OK; who can tell me the legal location of the 160 acres owned by Jacob Waltz? Section, Township, Range, etc. This property was later sold, transferred, quick claim or? to Andrew Starar. Whoever can answer these questions correctly will allow me to share a secret, one that I believe has never crossed one’s mind pertaining to this piece of property.

Let’s see who knows the answer...

Probably quite a few of the readers here know the answer to that question amigo as it has been published in a couple of books that are widely read by Dutch-hunters. It is the NE quarter of section 16, township 1 North, range 3 East and is within Phoenix city limits today.
Oroblanco

 

[NativeOne]

Ok I found this does this help any? http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/ldm.htm http://www.goldoutwest.com/apachegold6claim.html http://minefindergold7.com/id81.html

 

[NativeOne]

There are a bunch of old mines to explore in the area with gold, yes gold, silver and copper, and other minerals to be found. Mile after mile of hiking. Wow i had always thought there was 'no gold in the supers' Go Figure?

 

[Springfield]

....... Well, at least they went through the motions to make it all look good to the public's eye and she even sold some maps to spread the word through the streets of Phoenix that a very rich lost mine did indeed exist. Then along came Pierpoint and "walla". They all did their jobs as planned and soon went their separate ways... Why? The LDM Legend had been set in motion, you see, they were all on the same team and together they created the Lost Dutchman Legend. The LDM had to work to keep people away from the real treasures that the Stone Maps are referring to. .....
Ellie Baba

This strategy has been repeated over and over again all over the west. Frequently, the legend begins when "an old Mexican with a map" shows up and incites the locals. Once a rumor of lost gold incubates, it soon becomes "fact" and begins a life of its own. Any information that appears in a newspaper or in any publicly filed document, no matter what the intent, gains a credibility among the people and soon becomes "source material" for later researchers. If things die down after a generation or so, a new stranger appears in town with "new information" and the cycle is refreshed. These people, if nothing else, are masters of human psychology - their projects of disinformation speak for themselves. A long time Lost Adams searcher, Nat Straw, may have finally understood this when he carved the following on a tree: "The Adams Diggings is a shadowy naught, and they lie in the valley of fanciful thought"

 

[Blindbowman]

IMHO Waltz new Julia would react the way she did . he only under estmated her taste for health ...lol...in that case she could have been the prefect x wife ..

the stones are another matter all together ..

it would not of matterd how many people looked at them .. few if any would have had the skills to translate them ..if they were smart enough to age them correctly.. and then they would need more speaical skills to decode them and mpore to read what was decoded ..

so to think anyone could have picked up the stones and walked right to the treasure is fool beyond fool...

i like the LDM legend it was a lot fun . and it is trueonce you know how it fits into the other real legends . there are those that are over sized by news and paper .. thats normal in this line of work .. and it sure is not a 9 to 5 type job ..

and you may have to live out of pocket for a long time to make a find .. but in this case .. there is so much evidence out there .. that dose in fact say the legends have some truth behind them

it worth the time to do some research or it will bring some odd minded people to the legend like bees to honey ..

what did Julia have .. a small soda shop .. big dreams and the eye of old Waltz smileing on her ...she was one of the lucky ones from those years in my book as i see it ..

people like dick holmes stain the legend and degraded people like her from the sad part of life they already had .. yet .. the box under waltz's bed was never big enough for dick holmes or Julia ... it was for Waltz ,lol he had a mt of it ...

 

[NativeOne]

....... Well, at least they went through the motions to make it all look good to the public's eye and she even sold some maps to spread the word through the streets of Phoenix that a very rich lost mine did indeed exist. Then along came Pierpoint and "walla". They all did their jobs as planned and soon went their separate ways... Why? The LDM Legend had been set in motion, you see, they were all on the same team and together they created the Lost Dutchman Legend. The LDM had to work to keep people away from the real treasures that the Stone Maps are referring to. .....
Ellie Baba

This strategy has been repeated over and over again all over the west. Frequently, the legend begins when "an old Mexican with a map" shows up and incites the locals. Once a rumor of lost gold incubates, it soon becomes "fact" and begins a life of its own. Any information that appears in a newspaper or in any publicly filed document, no matter what the intent, gains a credibility among the people and soon becomes "source material" for later researchers. If things die down after a generation or so, a new stranger appears in town with "new information" and the cycle is refreshed. These people, if nothing else, are masters of human psychology - their projects of disinformation speak for themselves. A long time Lost Adams searcher, Nat Straw, may have finally understood this when he carved the following on a tree: "The Adams Diggings is a shadowy naught, and they lie in the valley of fanciful thought"

Actually its you and people who share your type of badgering, who are the bad guys and the 'game' you play of lying is very obvious. 'The Snowblind Gang' Sais there is no truth to the Lost dutchmans gold mine, there is no truth to the peralta stones or ldm maps. no truth to higrade ore in the supers. Jacob walz was a fake liar peraltas were never there, no cibola no tayopa, may as well close the whole topic and forget about it. 'A cover-up is an attempt, whether successful or not, to conceal evidence of wrong-doing, error, incompetence or other embarrassing information' I am new to this site and its very obvious when some one presents the truth you twist it to make it seem like a lie when the evidence is overwhelming.and at the minimum would require a complete and absolute investigation, rather than a simple snowblinding. Travis B

 

[Blindbowman]

....... Well, at least they went through the motions to make it all look good to the public's eye and she even sold some maps to spread the word through the streets of Phoenix that a very rich lost mine did indeed exist. Then along came Pierpoint and "walla". They all did their jobs as planned and soon went their separate ways... Why? The LDM Legend had been set in motion, you see, they were all on the same team and together they created the Lost Dutchman Legend. The LDM had to work to keep people away from the real treasures that the Stone Maps are referring to. .....
Ellie Baba

This strategy has been repeated over and over again all over the west. Frequently, the legend begins when "an old Mexican with a map" shows up and incites the locals. Once a rumor of lost gold incubates, it soon becomes "fact" and begins a life of its own. Any information that appears in a newspaper or in any publicly filed document, no matter what the intent, gains a credibility among the people and soon becomes "source material" for later researchers. If things die down after a generation or so, a new stranger appears in town with "new information" and the cycle is refreshed. These people, if nothing else, are masters of human psychology - their projects of disinformation speak for themselves. A long time Lost Adams searcher, Nat Straw, may have finally understood this when he carved the following on a tree: "The Adams Diggings is a shadowy naught, and they lie in the valley of fanciful thought"

Actually its you and people who share your type of badgering, who are the bad guys and the 'game' you play of lying is very obvious. 'The Snowblind Gang' Sais there is no truth to the Lost dutchmans gold mine, there is no truth to the peralta stones or ldm maps. no truth to higrade ore in the supers. Jacob walz was a fake liar peraltas were never there, no cibola no tayopa, may as well close the whole topic and forget about it. 'A cover-up is an attempt, whether successful or not, to conceal evidence of wrong-doing, error, incompetence or other embarrassing information' I am new to this site and its very obvious when some one presents the truth you twist it to make it seem like a lie when the evidence is overwhelming.and at the minimum would require a complete and absolute investigation, rather than a simple snowblinding. Travis B

NO: Jacob waltz was a fake liar peraltas were never there, see that where you were wrong ,, how did Waltz learn about the church grant .. the Peralta were there talking around the camp fire just like Waltz said they were.. or he would have never known that would he ....? you have to remember this story takes place in 1891 not yesterday....how did Waltz know it was a church grant ....?

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie Baba wrote

OK; who can tell me the legal location of the 160 acres owned by Jacob Waltz? Section, Township, Range, etc. This property was later sold, transferred, quick claim or? to Andrew Starar.

Whoever can answer these questions correctly will allow me to share a secret, one that I believe has never crossed one’s mind pertaining to this piece of property.
Let’s see who knows the answer...

Probably quite a few of the readers here know the answer to that question amigo as it has been published in a couple of books that are widely read by Dutch-hunters. It is the NE quarter of section 16, township 1 North, range 3 East and is within Phoenix city limits today.
Oroblanco

Here we go; lets take a look at this secret.

This will take a number of pages and a walk through a little history to include the not so long ago present. As much as I dislike using Google Earth for reasons most of us understand, its use for demonstrating the following information will work quite well.

Sec. 16, N/E ¼, T1N, R3E; the north east corner of section 16 is located at Buckeye Road and 16th Street and it just so happens that a target can be found constructed within this intersection.

See Google Earth attachment.

This is target No. 1 of three and they represent a more modern map which is tied to the Stone Maps as many of the same symbols have been used to locate this particular area. The identity of this group is made very clear to those even with an open mind. We are able to look back in history and identify this group and understand that it is still evolving even to this present day. This evolution has continued since the beginning of time and they are not afraid to tell you who they were and who they are now.

If you are familiar with this area the Sacred Heart Church is located to the N/E of the intersection in an area that once was known as the Golden Gate Barrio, which makes reference to the Golden Gate of Atlantis (see name associated with Golden Gate Bridge in San Francisco, CA.) Atlantis and Phoenicia are closely related in legends. Phoenix of course was to rise from the ashes, the ashes of a once ancient civilization.

I will explain this process as we continue. T1 pretty much looks the same as when it was created. There are only six benches, 3 each located in the N/E corner and S/E corners of the target. Burger King is located on the S/W border. This target is located on the N/E corner of Jacob's 160 acre lot (considering any easements). King Woolsey also owned a lot nearby that he purchased from Andrew Starar. These landmarks/locations were well known by this group long before these targets and clues were ever built.

Next one coming up soon. I will also add some info to our Julia Discussion since this is a Julia forum.Ellie Baba

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi All,

Next attachment T2 & T3. Check out the way the streets have been reversed, primarily 23rd & 24th St. and Copperhead has replaced 25th St. How do you all think this all came to past? Remember the 1900-02 Florence Topo as we still have a lot of info left to cover there also. These folks are in places that no one has dreamed of. I will explain later as to how these targets/sights were measured out and why they fit with the Stone Maps.

Look up Copperhead on line and you will soon realize who this group is connected too.

Later,

Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi All,

Had a problem with last Google Earth attachment. Finally got it and here it is.

 

[Oroblanco]

....... Well, at least they went through the motions to make it all look good to the public's eye and she even sold some maps to spread the word through the streets of Phoenix that a very rich lost mine did indeed exist. Then along came Pierpoint and "walla". They all did their jobs as planned and soon went their separate ways... Why? The LDM Legend had been set in motion, you see, they were all on the same team and together they created the Lost Dutchman Legend. The LDM had to work to keep people away from the real treasures that the Stone Maps are referring to. .....
Ellie Baba

This strategy has been repeated over and over again all over the west. Frequently, the legend begins when "an old Mexican with a map" shows up and incites the locals. Once a rumor of lost gold incubates, it soon becomes "fact" and begins a life of its own. Any information that appears in a newspaper or in any publicly filed document, no matter what the intent, gains a credibility among the people and soon becomes "source material" for later researchers. If things die down after a generation or so, a new stranger appears in town with "new information" and the cycle is refreshed. These people, if nothing else, are masters of human psychology - their projects of disinformation speak for themselves. A long time Lost Adams searcher, Nat Straw, may have finally understood this when he carved the following on a tree: "The Adams Diggings is a shadowy naught, and they lie in the valley of fanciful thought"

Actually its you and people who share your type of badgering, who are the bad guys and the 'game' you play of lying is very obvious. 'The Snowblind Gang' Sais there is no truth to the Lost dutchmans gold mine, there is no truth to the peralta stones or ldm maps. no truth to higrade ore in the supers. Jacob walz was a fake liar peraltas were never there, no cibola no tayopa, may as well close the whole topic and forget about it. 'A cover-up is an attempt, whether successful or not, to conceal evidence of wrong-doing, error, incompetence or other embarrassing information' I am new to this site and its very obvious when some one presents the truth you twist it to make it seem like a lie when the evidence is overwhelming.and at the minimum would require a complete and absolute investigation, rather than a simple snowblinding. Travis B

Is it all or nothing to you? There is truth to the Lost Dutchman's mine (the ore from Waltz comes from an unknown source, which may or may not be within what people refer to as the Superstitions today, which excludes much of the area to the east where that mining claim you posted is located) there is gold in the Superstitions wilderness, just not enough to get excited about, the Peralta stones is a matter of dispute, and the many LDM maps are likewise a matter of dispute - they have failed to work for anyone so far. If you wish to use the Peralta stones or any of the other LDM maps to search for the Lost Dutchman, you are welcome to do so - no one here is going to lift one finger to stop you - however be aware that these maps have just not worked for anyone else.

It is not about trying to keep people out of the Superstitions amigo, it is about trying to winnow out the BS that misleads so many people. Julia Thomas drew and sold many maps to the Lost Dutchman, which were pretty much useless for everyone who tried them.
Oroblanco

 

[NativeOne]

there is gold in the Superstitions wilderness, 'just not enough to get excited about.' Maps were pretty much useless for everyone who tried them.
Oroblanco.



It is about trying to winnow out the BS. H.E.A.T. did not find bullion? However, they discovered archaeological evidence suggesting that Hispanic miners had been to the Superstition Mountains, about the time of the Mexican Period, 1821 – 1848. This is a very controversial and 'highly rejected theory by Arizona historians' Why Because Violent death guarded the secret of the Apache. And the Historians dont want an 'apache war' and niether do i, but this is terrorism and that has no place here in america. Its obvious people have been fighting over gold in the supers for a very long time and now its going to stop one way or another and the U.S. government is already preparing and increasing their agents. Nothing anyone can do but just come completely clean if they 'understand' what is best. No More Blind Mans Bluff Travis B

 

[Blindbowman]

i think the U.S.government had evidence that these mines were in fact real and they took the land after they found this out .. that makes it a criminal act ...

 

[Cubfan64]

It is about trying to winnow out the BS. H.E.A.T. did not find bullion? However, they discovered archaeological evidence suggesting that Hispanic miners had been to the Superstition Mountains, about the time of the Mexican Period, 1821 – 1848. This is a very controversial and 'highly rejected theory by Arizona historians' Why Because Violent death guarded the secret of the Apache. And the Historians dont want an 'apache war' and niether do i, but this is terrorism and that has no place here in america. Its obvious people have been fighting over gold in the supers for a very long time and now its going to stop one way or another and the U.S. government is already preparing and increasing their agents. Nothing anyone can do but just come completely clean if they 'understand' what is best. No More Blind Mans Bluff Travis B

So there is an enormous government wide conspiracy involving apache, terrorism and the history of the Superstition Mountains? Well, anyone can cry wolf - if you have evidence, share it, otherwise yours is just another in a long line of crazy conspiracy theories.

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

"Crazy"?

And you were expecting.......?

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

It is about trying to winnow out the BS. H.E.A.T. did not find bullion? However, they discovered archaeological evidence suggesting that Hispanic miners had been to the Superstition Mountains, about the time of the Mexican Period, 1821 – 1848. This is a very controversial and 'highly rejected theory by Arizona historians' Why Because Violent death guarded the secret of the Apache. And the Historians dont want an 'apache war' and niether do i, but this is terrorism and that has no place here in america. Its obvious people have been fighting over gold in the supers for a very long time and now its going to stop one way or another and the U.S. government is already preparing and increasing their agents. Nothing anyone can do but just come completely clean if they 'understand' what is best. No More Blind Mans Bluff Travis B

So there is an enormous government wide conspiracy involving apache, terrorism and the history of the Superstition Mountains? Well, anyone can cry wolf - if you have evidence, share it, otherwise yours is just another in a long line of crazy conspiracy theories.

i never said it was a conspiracy , those are your words not mine..

i just stated that the goverment knew there was evidence that did suport these legends were in fact true .. and they did step in and make this goverment land .. did they not .. are you blind ? i was i know the diffrence ...

 

[Blindbowman]

Paul,

"Crazy"?

And you were expecting.......?

Take care,

Joe

nothing less from "you " ......unmature!

 

[NativeOne]

It is about trying to winnow out the BS. H.E.A.T. did not find bullion? However, they discovered archaeological evidence suggesting that Hispanic miners had been to the Superstition Mountains, about the time of the Mexican Period, 1821 – 1848. This is a very controversial and 'highly rejected theory by Arizona historians' Why Because Violent death guarded the secret of the Apache. And the Historians dont want an 'apache war' and niether do i, but this is terrorism and that has no place here in america. Its obvious people have been fighting over gold in the supers for a very long time and now its going to stop one way or another and the U.S. government is already preparing and increasing their agents. Nothing anyone can do but just come completely clean if they 'understand' what is best. No More Blind Mans Bluff Travis B

So there is an enormous government wide conspiracy involving apache, terrorism and the history of the Superstition Mountains? Well, anyone can cry wolf - if you have evidence, share it, otherwise yours is just another in a long line of crazy conspiracy theories.

$196 million for the Justice Department to bolster its forces of U.S. marshals, and FBI, DEA and ATF agents along the border.

2010/08/10/house-approves-more-agents. "All persons within the jurisdiction of the 'United States' shall have the same right in every State and Territory to make and enforce contracts, to sue, be parties, give evidence, and to the full and equal benefit of all laws and proceedings for the security of persons and property as is enjoyed by white citizens, and shall be 'subject to like punishment, pains, penalties, taxes, licenses, and exactions of every kind', and to no other."
This is based on section one of the 1866 act.
Dear friend you don't have to lie to me
When I ask you what's going on,
Are you doing' right or you doing wrong.
If you do right will there not be a lifting up.
You misbehave,
Sin is crouching by your grave.
We can begin to make amends
Fill your sails full with wind.
I know you're tossed and tempest turned, but make no mistake
I'll never sleep on you. 'faith'
Now your sin, you must mask it
Your face is all riddled with guilt
Cover you like a blanket, but no warmth will it give.
Now I'm sittin' here and can't believe all the measures you've taken
'To cheat, lie and decieve me and all your friends.' Dont you run away from the 'truth'

Lies in the nest never ever 'let the birds get to rest'

I can forgive, but I never can forget.
Bricks built without straw were so weak they crumbled
To mud, just as your excuse with truth left you easily undone.
Travis B