Maps

[chlsbrns]

If you all want to find large deposits of gold and other precious metals I'll gladly post a link to a undiscovered gold report showing 100's of billions of dollars worth of gold in the USA!

There are no cryptic messages or hand drawn maps, only lat/long coordinates. The report is from late 1990's. If you put coordinates in google earth you will see that some of the locations have been worked but there are plenty that have not been worked.

If you prefer I can make cryptic messages and hand draw maps. At least you will end up with gold if you successfully decypher the messages.

 

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Diving for Pleasure and Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Cubfan64]

If you all want to find large deposits of gold and other precious metals I'll gladly post a link to a undiscovered gold report showing 100's of billions of dollars worth of gold in the USA!

There are no cryptic messages or hand drawn maps, only lat/long coordinates. The report is from late 1990's. If you put coordinates in google earth you will see that some of the locations have been worked but there are plenty that have not been worked.

If you prefer I can make cryptic messages and hand draw maps. At least you will end up with gold if you successfully decypher the messages.

That would be great! There are a number of prospectors who might really find that report useful! Thank you and looking forward to it

 

[chlsbrns]

U.S. Geological Survey Open-File Report 96-096
Data Base for Undiscovered Deposits of Base and Precious Metals

USGS Open-File Report 02-198

Download the 1_NATIONAL_ASSESSMENT.PDF [27.4 MB].

Alaska files are farther down the page.

We have mined some of the few east coast locations and there was significant gold.

 

[deducer]

These clues would potentially put one on Peter's Mesa/Malapais Mountain. A lot of people have searched on Peter's Mesa. I still think there's something to it.

I think that the quote "I hid my mine like the Mexicans did" is a most telling clue, and one that I feel supports Bark's determination that Waltz didn't find a mine, but a cache of Mexican ore, that was either hastily hidden or cached for their next trip.

Bark was far from being dumb; he was a successful rancher and a businessman, and was a contemporary of the dutchman so he was in the best position to make this kind of deliberation.

The 2nd battle, circa 1864 (per W. Edward) between the Mexican miners and the Indians, was believed to have started in the interior of the mountain, probably the south side of Tortilla around Indian springs, and raged into a running skirmish back over Peter's Mesa, past Charlebois Spring and first water, and by that time a lot more reinforcements on the Apache side had arrived, to crush the flank set at Marsh valley when the retreat hooked up with the larger camp there. This, I believe, led to the ill-advised retreat to what today is known as the Massacre Grounds.

So, your assertion re: Peter's Mesa, is with merit, as the Mexicans were believed to have a work camp near the "hairpin" above Charlebois. This is strategic high ground with water access nearby (Gasslers wash, etc), and would have been easy to retreat from (down into Charlebois, for example).

Is there anything worthwhile on Peter's Mesa, even now? There is a rumor (from the old LDM forum) that a team went over the mesa with a grid by grid search that took three years.

 

[Hal Croves]

Posted by 393stroker: The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz: A Pioneer History ... - Helen Corbin - Google Books

These clues would potentially put one on Peter's Mesa/Malapais Mountain. A lot of people have searched on Peter's Mesa. I still think there's something to it.

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Keep swinging like that and you just may crack open the piñata. I am really enjoying your posts. Thank you.

 

[cactusjumper]

Guys,
_______________________________________________

______________________________________________

I would be very careful about using information from Helen's "Bible". She had a source who has made-up much of the "history" he gave to her.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[somehiker]

Guys,
_______________________________________________

______________________________________________

I would be very careful about using information from Helen's "Bible". She had a source who has made-up much of the "history" he gave to her.

Joe Ribaudo

Joe:

Was this person the only source for "the german clues" listed ?
Was he Helen's sole source for what is in the book ?
Or is some of the information more credible ?

Best:Wayne

Glad to hear you're feeling better these days.

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne,

Helen was a very good writer. Many of her sources were good, which is why I said "I would be very careful". No doubt, her questionable source knew many facts. He is a good historian and has done more than his share of legitimate research.
Personally, I don't believe any of the "German clues". Those pages were written by the person who told her the story. He claimed the information came to him through his family. I believe that family, as his story is told, did not exist. I would be happy to see evidence that my belief is in error.

Anyone wishing to test the truth of what I have written, should talk to Bob Corbin. Some of you have already done that.

Yes, I am feeling better.......but I sure don't look any better. Thank you.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[deducer]

Joe,

Is it not true that some of the German clues do line up with Bark's beliefs?

 

[sgtfda]

This is just an idea....
I cant help but see a connection between this line and a profile of the Superstitions from a distance. Not sure where a person would need to be standing to view
View attachment 1130624 this but wanted to ask for some opinions.

That line is Queen Creek

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

Is it not true that some of the German clues do line up with Bark's beliefs?

deducer,

Can you tell me which of Bark's beliefs line up with which of the German clues?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Wayne,

Helen was a very good writer. Many of her sources were good, which is why I said "I would be very careful". No doubt, her questionable source knew many facts. He is a good historian and has done more than his share of legitimate research.
Personally, I don't believe any of the "German clues". Those pages were written by the person who told her the story. He claimed the information came to him through his family. I believe that family, as his story is told, did not exist. I would be happy to see evidence that my belief is in error.

Anyone wishing to test the truth of what I have written, should talk to Bob Corbin. Some of you have already done that.

Yes, I am feeling better.......but I sure don't look any better. Thank you.

Good luck,

Joe

Cactusjumper,

I haven't read the book but I have read many of your comments about Mrs. Corbin's source. Why do you think that she allowed herself to be used the way you describe? I mean, a "very good" writer would have done some fact checking where possible long before printing. The discovery of just one "false" fact from her source would have been reason to dismiss his/her credibility outright. That doesn't appear to have happened and the book is still being sold.

No retraction, no amendment, no footnote? I guess I don't understand why, if the source is bogus, Mr. Corbin or the publisher allows it to remain available for sale, unedited. It makes no sense.

To your credit at least you acknowledge the possibility of the information being correct.

edit.
I just finished reading all the reviews on Amazon which for the most part are positive. But this one review seems to support your concerns.

"Falls short of living up to it's title, May 8, 2003
By A Customer
This review is from: The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz: A Pioneer History of the Gold Rush (Prospecting and Treasure Hunting) (Paperback)
This book falls short of living up to it's Title, and maintaining the level of quality we appreciated in Mrs. Corbin's first work on the subject. "Curse of the Dutchman's Gold", and was not well received by her Peers, Superiors and Sources of Information on the subject material.
A modest amount of research on the Internet...discloses a considerable amount of discontention among Lost Dutchman Enthusiasts concerning her Moral Right to publish some of the material she presented in this book.
Mrs. Corbin takes full advantage of the "Author's Prerogative" in her very subjective presentation of what she refers to as "Facts" and "Evidence". An unusual amount of errors, omissions and fragmented information indicates the lack of "Quality" Editing and Review.
Poorly Edited, Casually Reviewed and Way Over-Priced."

 

[deducer]

deducer,

Can you tell me which of Bark's beliefs line up with which of the German clues?

Thanks,

Joe

The belief that what Waltz had was not a gold mine, but that he had stumbled upon a cache of very high-grade ore.

 

[cactusjumper]

The belief that what Waltz had was not a gold mine, but that he had stumbled upon a cache of very high-grade ore.

deducer,

I don't believe that Bark mentions that in his notes/manuscript. Can you quote the actual statement? Bark never calls Waltz's mine a cache, it is always a "mine".

Thanks again,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

google search "legends and lore of the superstitions/The German Clues"

for more on this topic

 

[Somero]

This is just an idea....
I cant help but see a connection between this line and a profile of the Superstitions from a distance. Not sure where a person would need to be standing to view
View attachment 1130624 this but wanted to ask for some opinions.

I wonder if it was "mirrored" from the proper side if it could represent the Salt from the North Shore Looking South

 

[cactusjumper]

google search "legends and lore of the superstitions/The German Clues"

for more on this topic

Wayne,

I believe Jim Hatt said it best about the "German clues":

"According to the information provided to Helen along with them. Sometime around the turn of the century Herman Petrasch, approached members of the Holmes Camp, and presented them with this list of clues.

That in itself, should be enough to make anyone immediately suspicious about the source of the clues. If that is not enough… Then you have to wonder why neither Jim Bark or Sims Ely ever heard of these clues, and why none of them match up with anything Julia Thomas, or the Petrasch’s told Ely or Bark?"

That information came to Helen, through Mathew Roberts by way of his "great aunt".That says all that is needed for that story.

Take care,

Joe

 

[deducer]

deducer,

I don't believe that Bark mentions that in his notes/manuscript. Can you quote the actual statement? Bark never calls Waltz's mine a cache, it is always a "mine".

Thanks again,

Joe

Yes, a mine, but not quite a mine that Waltz had excavated himself, but a mine where he is believed to have found or stored high grade ore.

Although it is never explicitly stated (as there is no reason to believe Bark intended his notes to become public) that Bark suspected and felt Waltz's source was high-grade ore , I believe that it is an open secret that he did, and Kollenborn & others have stated so.

And as far as "actual statement" I would not consider the "Bark notes" the final authority on what Bark said or believed in, in that the notes passed onto his descendant after his death, and the version (out of 7 versions) commonly available to the public, passed through the hands of Probert.

 

[Advocat]

I recall reading (more than once) that Waltz would be gone about 3 days when going to/returning from his mine -- is this considered to be a genuine clue? Also, is it known "where" he entered the Superstitions on these trips?

 

[cactusjumper]

Cactusjumper,

I haven't read the book but I have read many of your comments about Mrs. Corbin's source. Why do you think that she allowed herself to be used the way you describe? I mean, a "very good" writer would have done some fact checking where possible long before printing. The discovery of just one "false" fact from her source would have been reason to dismiss his/her credibility outright. That doesn't appear to have happened and the book is still being sold.

No retraction, no amendment, no footnote? I guess I don't understand why, if the source is bogus, Mr. Corbin or the publisher allows it to remain available for sale, unedited. It makes no sense.

To your credit at least you acknowledge the possibility of the information being correct.

edit.
I just finished reading all the reviews on Amazon which for the most part are positive. But this one review seems to support your concerns.

"Falls short of living up to it's title, May 8, 2003
By A Customer
This review is from: The Bible on the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine and Jacob Waltz: A Pioneer History of the Gold Rush (Prospecting and Treasure Hunting) (Paperback)
This book falls short of living up to it's Title, and maintaining the level of quality we appreciated in Mrs. Corbin's first work on the subject. "Curse of the Dutchman's Gold", and was not well received by her Peers, Superiors and Sources of Information on the subject material.
A modest amount of research on the Internet...discloses a considerable amount of discontention among Lost Dutchman Enthusiasts concerning her Moral Right to publish some of the material she presented in this book.
Mrs. Corbin takes full advantage of the "Author's Prerogative" in her very subjective presentation of what she refers to as "Facts" and "Evidence". An unusual amount of errors, omissions and fragmented information indicates the lack of "Quality" Editing and Review.
Poorly Edited, Casually Reviewed and Way Over-Priced."

Hal,

Helen was not well during the time in question, and was under a lot of pressure, by her publisher, to finish the book. She eventually passed away due to her illness. Her husband pulled the books that were for sale, where he could. What is for sale are those books he had no control over. Bob Corbin is the best authority on what took place with "The Bible...." and he is my face to face source.

A good deal of quality research went into this story. From my perspective, as well as many other Dutch hunters, it's a sad tale.

The book is rare to find these days. Leather-bound is very rare or even impossible to find.
I have one enscribed to my wife and myself by Bob.

You wrote: "To your credit at least you acknowledge the possibility of the information being correct."

Only some of the information is correct.

Good luck,

Joe