Maps

[pkdmslf]

Here is a link to the Superstition Search And Rescue website. They have some nice topo maps with hiking trails throughout the Superstitions. Good reference material for those who have not had the opportunity to go into the mountains themselves.

Please post maps that you are willing to share related to the LDM and Superstition Mountains.

Would be interesting to see some topo maps overlaid or in addition to some GE imagery. Especially older maps.

Superstition Search And Rescue - Area Maps

 

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[deducer]

Many of the questions you and other newcomers ask have already been answered many times over in this forum.

If only you'd spend a little time reading through the threads in the archives, you'll find your answers and much more.

 

[deducer]

I'm not a "newcomer" to the LDM history, just to this forum. I just wrote a thought. If I have a question, I will post it in the appropriate section/s.

Where's your map/s?

Did not mean to imply you were a newcomer to the game, just this forum.

No offense, but the link to the SAR website has been given only around a dozen times so far (to use as an example).

The maps that I have no problem sharing or revealing, have already been posted many times over.

 

[sdcfia]

Many of the questions you and other newcomers ask have already been answered many times over in this forum.

If only you'd spend a little time reading through the threads in the archives, you'll find your answers and much more.

That's a good point, but with 300 threads and 30,000 posts in the Lost Dutchman category alone to sort through, it's quite a daunting task for most interested newcomers. Sometimes it's much easier to ask questions. Also, with all the coffee-clatch social media-like bantering and off-topic ranting and flaming here, it makes things doubly daunting to find stuff.

 

[djui5]

Those SARS maps are awesome! I've used them for years and love em.

 

[somehiker]

Lots on the LDM here, including most of the maps associated with the legend.....

Apache Junction Public Library

 

[BuffaloBob]

Did not mean to imply you were a newcomer to the game, just this forum.
No offense, but the link to the SAR website has been given only around a dozen times so far (to use as an example).
The maps that I have no problem sharing or revealing, have already been posted many times over.

Amen to that deducer.. Yes much information is here. Yes it is impossible for the casual TNer to sort through thousands of pages. Searching for a map or image. I have tried to keep up with SPANISH Treasure signs & symbols. Not only a continuous search, so many duplicates are scattered here and there I "need" a database. Database referencving images, maps, locations, photos and links to other sites it is extraordinarily difficult to sort out manually. Clue..

As for LDM and the bozos on the cable network, I and most members of TN probably know more than they do. About signs.. warnings throughout the canyons. Fun to watch but too amateurish for real hunters. Yes a certain carved or painted symbol may be important. Without detailed context of the surrounding areas, previous markers, next sign and pictures of every one, they risk their lives as well as people watching. What they describe as difficult country looks more like a day hike to a typical ghost town.

It is also illegal in Colorado anyway, to kill rattlers just for grins. WTF..

Back to stuff people want to see save and print.. what do you forum guys suggest? You understand where all the archived stuff is. Give us a clue how retrieve it?
BB

 

[deducer]

That's a good point, but with 300 threads and 30,000 posts in the Lost Dutchman category alone to sort through, it's quite a daunting task for most interested newcomers.

Amen to that deducer.. Yes much information is here. Yes it is impossible for the casual TNer to sort through thousands of pages.

Not easy, yes; but not impossible. I have done that with not just TNET, but two other forums as well.

One benefit of researching the archives is you get different points of views and opinions on any given thing, such as Bark's notes, for example. Ideas, or clues that you, yourself, would have never thought of. And those ideas or thoughts are the culmination of that person's many years of legwork and research, so you are getting the benefit of that as well.

In fact, it was the best thing I ever did.

 

[djui5]

In fact, it was the best thing I ever did.

I love it when someone does research so they can intelligently discuss a subject. Thank you.

 

[Hal Croves]

The Haywood Story (John Kochera's Gold)

http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/stories/Haywood Story.pdf

Haywood Map:
View attachment 1126941

Kochera's Map:
View attachment 1126942

Wanted to ask if you know the story behind the name of the tunnel on the Haywood map?
My second question is for you and everyone really.
On the Haywood map, what or where do you thing the "box canyon", east of Squaw, represents? It's not as simple as it looks to follow.

 

[Hal Croves]

I went through my old notes and came across a post from the "other" LDM site. The author goes by the name of "Aurum". From his post:
<< With Jake everything came down to money or a trade off and I wanted to know so I told him right out,the word was indian, Apache, and it
meant literally, the Sun's metal or, yellow metal.>>

A map of the Military Trail through the SWA would be something worth posting.

 

[cactusjumper]

I went through my old notes and came across a post from the "other" LDM site. The author goes by the name of "Aurum". From his post:
<< With Jake everything came down to money or a trade off and I wanted to know so I told him right out,the word was indian, Apache, and it
meant literally, the Sun's metal or, yellow metal.>>

pkdmslf,

What was the Apache word?

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

A map of the Military Trail through the SWA would be something worth posting.

Hal,

The Military Trail through the Supe's can be found in Dr. Glover's first book.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

I believe HC was referring to the word by the tunnel "PESHKITZO".

View attachment 1129921

I believe the Apache (Western) word for gold is oodo. Can't think of any Apache words that begin with "P".

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

I have no experience with the Apache language. I was reading through some old posts that I saved and I came across the post by "Aurum". It was relate to the Haywood map and the "Indian Word". I guessed it was Peshkitzo. I could be wrong. Also it was Crazy Jake's interpretation according to the post.

pkdmslf,

Well......Aurum should know. I know a little Western and Jicarilla Apache. Neither seem to have the "p" sound in their speech. They substitute a "B" for the "P" in Apache. Abaachii.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Hal Croves]

pkdmslf,

Well......Aurum should know. I know a little Western and Jicarilla Apache. Neither seem to have the "p" sound in their speech. They substitute a "B" for the "P" in Apache. Abaachii.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Is he an Apache? I would like to learn the meaning of Peshkitzo and the history of the two maps.

 

[cactusjumper]

Is he an Apache? I would like to learn the meaning of Peshkitzo and the history of the two maps.

Hal,

Mr. Roberts is not an Apache.

As I stated, I don't believe the Apache had any words that begin with a "P". If you are going to research the word, start with besh (metal) instead of pesh.......try besh lltsog (yellow) or besh leetsoh (also yellow). Matthew could probably give you a better answer, but he is no longer on the forum, as far as I know.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[AuTSaurus]

Hmmm...

"Peshkitzo" ....... "Besh leetsoh" Sounds, the same to me...

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

Mr. Roberts is not an Apache.

As I stated, I don't believe the Apache had any words that begin with a "P". If you are going to research the word, start with besh (metal) instead of pesh.......try besh lltsog (yellow) or besh leetsoh (also yellow). Matthew could probably give you a better answer, but he is no longer on the forum, as far as I know.

Good luck,

Joe

Thanks for the advice! I have a few hours looking into Peshkitzo. If we were in Afghanistan that word might make some sense but alas...

I would like to get your advice on the origins of the two maps. At first look they are similar but there are actually a few important differences. Do we know their origin? Did Johnny K draw them both?

As you know it was the Haywood story that got me interested in the SWA and by chance, my placement of the stones seems to reinforce his story. Just a theory but I do believe that his mine is recorded on the stones.

 

[Azquester]

Thanks for the advice! I have a few hours looking into Peshkitzo. If we were in Afghanistan that word might make some sense but alas...

I would like to get your advice on the origins of the two maps. At first look they are similar but there are actually a few important differences. Do we know their origin? Did Johnny K draw them both?




As you know it was the Haywood story that got me interested in the SWA and by chance, my placement of the stones seems to reinforce his story. Just a theory but I do believe that his mine is recorded on the stones.

It means "Only alone Fish" I assume it's talking about a symbol.


Bill