Things weve learned from Legends of the Supes - and questions for the team

[Hal Croves]

............and if he died of natural causes, and his corpse was laying out in the open for those SUMMER MONTHS, then WHY was the skull described as being "GREEN"? When a skull is green, that means that there are still pieces of meat still clinging to it. Not all the way eaten off or dried out. Something laying out like that will first attract predators (which is why they claim the skull holes were from predators), then when most of the meat is gone, the bugs come in and clean all the bones. Nothing laying out like that for all those months would have been "GREEN". The likely explanation is that Ruth was quietly buried somewhere, after his body was first discovered. When the hubbub didn't die down, and the expedition was announced, that was the alarm bell to dig him up and drop him where someone would find the body. Possibly.

Mike

I can't remember who told me but didn't someone admit to moving the body?

Don't forget the flies.

 

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[pkdmslf]

I can't remember who told me but didn't someone admit to moving the body?

Don't forget the flies.

It's mentioned in Walter Gassler's Manuscript that Tex Barkely moved the body so people wouldn't be looking around Peter's Mesa (He didn't want his cattle scared and spread about). Don't understand why Tex would admit that to Walter Gassler. Maybe things were different back then.

 

[Azquester]

This thread has gotten way off topic so what the heck.

I first became interested in the Lost Dutchman Legend after watching a show about it in the 1970's called "Unsolved Mysteries" with Robert Flack. The story about Ruth was in there but what caught my eye was the story about a man that knew Bob Corbin and claimed he had found the mine showing Bob his Ore which was similar to the Dutchman ore. I can't recall the mans name but after his death a man claiming to be his brother showed up at Bob's house and laid claim to the back pack and all his secret notes. Afterwards Bob had another knock on the door a few days later and the real Brother showed up!

Bob claimed to have seen the ore and to this day I suppose has never found out whom the fake brother is.

Have any of the Team heard of this story or have any inside info as to the legend of the find made by the mysterious man?

Bill

 

[gollum]

It was Tex Barkley, but the reason was probably more like Peter's Mesa is a very interesting area (LDM-wise). No Dutch Hunter wants a bunch of strangers wandering around an area where there are a bunch of LDM Clues.

I said this before, but will restate it. Herman Petrasch had a .44 pistol that miraculously went missing right after Ruth did.

Mike

 

[gollum]

This thread has gotten way off topic so what the heck.

I first became interested in the Lost Dutchman Legend after watching a show about it in the 1970's called "Unsolved Mysteries" with Robert Flack. The story about Ruth was in there but what caught my eye was the story about a man that knew Bob Corbin and claimed he had found the mine showing Bob his Ore which was similar to the Dutchman ore. I can't recall the mans name but after his death a man claiming to be his brother showed up at Bob's house and laid claim to the back pack and all his secret notes. Afterwards Bob had another knock on the door a few days later and the real Brother showed up!

Bob claimed to have seen the ore and to this day I suppose has never found out whom the fake brother is.

Have any of the Team heard of this story or have any inside info as to the legend of the find made by the mysterious man?

Bill

Bill,

PKDMSLF just mentioned the man's name Walter Gassler.

Mike

 

[Cubfan64]

That is Fing amazing. Is the location known? It would have to be, right?

Hal - it turns out I was only remembering half of it... Keenan and Purnell each had claims, BUT they were made in February 1931 a few months BEFORE Ruth arrived and subsequently went missing. The only thing it proves is that Keenan and Purnell were both at least somewhat interested in mining.

Here is the response I got from Greg Davis about 7 years ago on another forum when I found out about Keenan's claim and asked...

Hello Paul: Pinal County Book of Mines, #46, page 468. Sonny Boy Claim, 17 February l93l. Jack Keenan, Jimmie Jordan and Leo Terry filed this claim in the Superstition Mining District one mile south of Weavers Needle. Also filed was the Mountain View Claim by Leroy F. Purnell on 27 February l931, Superstition Mining District, one mile south of Weavers Needle. This also is in the Pinal County Book of Mines, #46, Page 484. Note that these claims were filed prior to Adolph Ruth's trip to Arizona. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[Cubfan64]

Bill,

PKDMSLF just mentioned the man's name Walter Gassler.

Mike

I think it was Tom Kollenborn who saw the ore and not Bob. The story I remember is that Walt Gassler approached both Bob and Tom hoping he could convince them to go into the mountains with him as he felt he "had something." Neither could get away at that time, Walt got impatient and went in himself and subsequently ended up dying out there. The followup story is that someone approached Tom later claiming to be Walt's son and inside a backpack he claimed belonged to Walt was rich gold ore that Tom said looked like dutchman ore. The "fake" son asked for Walt's manuscript, maps and whatever else Walt had shared with Tom and Bob and left. Later Roland Gassler (Walt's real son) met Tom and it was clear to Tom that the other person was NOT Roland.

Was the backpack really Walt's?
If so, where did the fake person get it from?
Was the gold ore really something Walt found or was it a "plant" the person used to get Walt's maps etc...?

Lots and lots more to the story of Walt Gassler...

 

[sgtfda]

It was Tex Barkley, but the reason was probably more like Peter's Mesa is a very interesting area (LDM-wise). No Dutch Hunter wants a bunch of strangers wandering around an area where there are a bunch of LDM Clues.

I said this before, but will restate it. Herman Petrasch had a .44 pistol that miraculously went missing right after Ruth did.

Mike

Mike I always suspected Herman and his brother had issues

 

[Hal Croves]

Mike I always suspected Herman and his brother had issues

It didn't end well for any of that family.

 

[cw0909]

the other day there was talk about peters mesa/canyon area
went looking around the net, and found these imgs, put up by
hikers, over at the hike az.com scroll the hikers names under
img panel, some nice pics there

Peter's Mesa ? Hiking ? Arizona ? HikeArizona.COM

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

It was Tex Barkley, but the reason was probably more like Peter's Mesa is a very interesting area (LDM-wise). No Dutch Hunter wants a bunch of strangers wandering around an area where there are a bunch of LDM Clues.

I said this before, but will restate it. Herman Petrasch had a .44 pistol that miraculously went missing right after Ruth did.

Mike

Or revolver?

 

[wingmaster]

There are way to many and to disgraceful for those guys on the show, I'm not sure I'd be willing to come out in public at least in the daytime. I might even be temped to change my name to Nancy, everyone would be calling me that anyway.

 

[chlsbrns]

It's a tv show about legends. I like the show!

It has to have drama and bs. Black hands, gun shots, booby traps ect for drama and ldm bs.

 

[Hal Croves]

There is a LOT more:

Purnell and Keenan were driving Ruth's Car around town the night after they packed him in. Supposedly (according to Glen Magill) in the 1950s Purnell's Widow was offering to sell previously unseen maps that she got from her late husband.

Lots of interesting stuff there.

Mike

The goverment did not want the map published.
Ruths BOOTS were found at his camp site (I never knew that).
"A copy of the map is on microfilm in the vaults of the Title & Trust building".
Anyone here ever go view it?

 

[motel6.5]

I also like the show,have nothing negative to say about it. However I would like to know if any show segments will
involve scuba diveing in the Salt river. My imformation which I have not proven to be true says some mines might have been covered up when the river rose years ago. Trails go up for sure and they usually start at the bottom.
Thanks in advance for any answers,crew.

 

[Hal Croves]

Frank:

Maybe two men/two handguns. One large caliber-low velocity (cowboy loads), the other smaller caliber....possibly derringer.
First shot from derringer left him mortally wounded but still moving, second shot from revolver finished him off. Neither shot may have had the velocity to exit through any thicker part of the skull, or the larger may have exited through the palate or an eye socket.
Or....possibly a pick was used, with the second and heavier blow used to finish him off.
It would take a heluva tumble to put two holes in a skull like that.

No confessors. So it's all speculation IMHO.

Mountain Lions go for the neck-spinal cord. Bears can go for the head or neck, or even a leg.....shake em up like a dog and drag them off. Death usually follows quickly from shock and blood loss.

I offered a suggestion a long time ago, that if Ruth's body WAS moved post-mortem, and this was done a few days later, that decomposition and/ or animal predation had left the skull barely attached to the rest of the corpse. If the body had been wrapped in a blanket and draped over a pack horse, I thought it possible that the head may have been "lost" (detached from the corpse) somewhere between the murder site and where the body was recovered. Whoever moved the body wasn't about to backtrack and search for the skull, or if wrapped in a blanket, may not have noticed.

Regards:Wayne

To support your theory... Ruth's boots were found at his campsite which suggests that he was not injured and incapacitated somewhere else while hiking. Now he may have died of natural causes but, it would have been at the camp site

. View attachment 1129867

 

[TheHarleyMan2]

I also like the show,have nothing negative to say about it. However I would like to know if any show segments will
involve scuba diveing in the Salt river. My imformation which I have not proven to be true says some mines might have been covered up when the river rose years ago. Trails go up for sure and they usually start at the bottom.
Thanks in advance for any answers,crew.

I also wonder about those man made lakes. If there were caves or mines on the lower regions of the mountains that filled up the area with water can certainly bet they are filled to the hilt!

 

[pkdmslf]

I also wonder about those man made lakes. If there were caves or mines on the lower regions of the mountains that filled up the area with water can certainly bet they are filled to the hilt!

Very possible.

When they built Glen Canyon Dam and created Lake Powell, there were many old Anasazi cave dwellings that were flooded without ever being excavated. Now under water.

Could be some mines that are under water as well.

 

[gollum]

Or revolver?

What do you mean?

 

[somehiker]

Very possible.

When they built Glen Canyon Dam and created Lake Powell, there were many old Anasazi cave dwellings that were flooded without ever being excavated. Now under water.

Could be some mines that are under water as well.

Might be some.
But if Waltz's mine had been that close to the Salt River, I think he would have said so....to somebody.
Esp. Julia, Rhiney, or Dick Holmes.
It would have been high on the list of landmarks and clues IMO.


Everything under the present lake level is covered in two-three feet of mud.
How would you find the "funnel shaped pit", especially if it had been covered up, or a drift/tunnel which was described as a "rat hole".
These old mines were not walk in or stand up holes......they were tight.
Three feet of mud would easily cover any entrance to such a mine.