Where do you think the Lost Dutchman mine is?

[cactusjumper]

Well there is that alternate version, which is even simpler - that Waltz himself found his mine by following up the gold to the vein. None of the high drama from the popular versions, and also does not match the old Peralta/Ludy story. If that alternate version is true, then the trips Waltz made were really trying to get to a side canyon off Pinto creek, not any place in the western part of the range. This would also mean the part of the story (stories actually) which had Waltz going to Adams Mill and Florence, make sense as being easier to travel to and back, than across to Phoenix. We could also point out that the Pioneer Interviews were done during the Depression years, predating Sims Ely's book publication and many other books.

Culinary Caveman - Fish creek is a very interesting place, and has a little gold in it too that is coming from somewhere. The terrain gets pretty rough but it might be the right place.

Roy,

Quite true, as well as enumerable other versions, any one of which could be true. Since I have never actually looked for the LDM,
my opinion is pretty low on the food chain.

Good luck,

Joe

 

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[Oroblanco]

Roy,

Quite true, as well as enumerable other versions, any one of which could be true. Since I have never actually looked for the LDM,
my opinion is pretty low on the food chain.

Good luck,

Joe

Well I don't think this is about who is casting the biggest shadow - and considering the number of books, articles, maps and documents you have accumulated, not to mention your interest in discussing the LDM over the years, I don't think you can refer to your self any longer as NOT a Dutch hunter! A non-Dutch-hunter does not buy all the books, maps and documents, much less do the research - even if your viewpoint has been to DISprove the LDM legend

.

 

[cactusjumper]

Well I don't think this is about who is casting the biggest shadow - and considering the number of books, articles, maps and documents you have accumulated, not to mention your interest in discussing the LDM over the years, I don't think you can refer to your self any longer as NOT a Dutch hunter! A non-Dutch-hunter does not buy all the books, maps and documents, much less do the research - even if your viewpoint has been to DISprove the LDM legend

.

Roy,

Of all the things I have done over the last 50+ years, concerning the Superstition Mountains, the Rendezvous has given me the most satisfaction/pride. I can feel good about why and how I made it happen. Many old and new friends got together there. It's enough.

I have never tried to "DISprove the LDM legend." The TRUTHS in the legend have always been my goal.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Oro, the stone tablets have nothig to do with the LDM

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

p S, ya stil owe me a steak Cactus

 

[Oroblanco]

Oro, the stone tablets have nothing to do with the LDM

Haven't I been saying that for years now?

Side thing here but addressing the Sims Ely book and Bark notes, Ely's book was first published in 1953. The Pioneer Interviews were done during the Depression years so actually predate Ely's book. The Bark notes were not published until even later. So when we start drawing lines as to when the embellishment and mixing of stories got into gear, it helps to put things in a time line. Bicknell's two articles predate all others. Even John D. Mitchell's first article was published in 1933, which is near the time line of Adolph Ruth, and Barry Storm's book came out in 1939, fourteen years ahead of Ely.

Please do continue, sorry for the side track.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Have you Oro?

 

[Oroblanco]

Have you Oro?

No, I just type stuff here to keep the arthritis away.

To Randy - well? You started this thread, what is your opinion? Thanks in advance,
Roy

 

[Cubfan64]

Haven't I been saying that for years now?

Side thing here but addressing the Sims Ely book and Bark notes, Ely's book was first published in 1953. The Pioneer Interviews were done during the Depression years so actually predate Ely's book. The Bark notes were not published until even later. So when we start drawing lines as to when the embellishment and mixing of stories got into gear, it helps to put things in a time line. Bicknell's two articles predate all others. Even John D. Mitchell's first article was published in 1933, which is near the time line of Adolph Ruth, and Barry Storm's book came out in 1939, fourteen years ahead of Ely.

Please do continue, sorry for the side track.
Oroblanco

Published yes, but Bark was working on them back in the 30's - of that I'm absolutely certain, and I know there are at the very least partial copies of some of the things he wrote from the 1932 time frame. With a little looking, they can be found.

 

[Oroblanco]

Published yes, but Bark was working on them back in the 30's - of that I'm absolutely certain, and I know there are at the very least partial copies of some of the things he wrote from the 1932 time frame. With a little looking, they can be found.

Joe's point was that the embellishment came after Ely's book and the Bark notes, yet these did not come to the public eye until years after others had published their books/articles. Bicknell was first, and most would say that he had no qualms about embellishing, so really that aspect predates Ely and Bark. Likewise for Barry Storm. Plenty of embellishing and mixing of stories, that continues to this day.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

oro

 

[cactusjumper]

As I have written before, Jim Bark believed the LDM was somewhere on the ridge that separates West and East Boulder Canyons. He mentions it, without naming the ridge, in his manuscript. IMHO, Bark was the best source for clues, as well as being first on the scene after Waltz died. He interviewed Julia and Rhiney many times, as did his partner Sims Ely. The two of them compared notes to see how Julia and Rhiney statements matched.......or didn't.


I have long contended that Adolph Ruth did not get to Black Top Mesa under his own power. I believe he was killed somewhere in West Boulder Canyon or above it. As I have said many times, I believe the Ruth story was "massaged" from the start. Jim Bark also believed that.

I admit, for many years, I didn't have any solid evidence for those beliefs. Strong hunch was my only crutch to lean on.
Things are slowly changing.

Top of ridge:



Saddle on ridge:



Waltz drawing?:



View of Weaver's Needle from claim on North end of ridge. I was told that this is the view that Ruth was looking for.
<a href="DelMonteClaim.jpg Photo by cactus_jumper | Photobucket" target="_blank"><img src="http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/cactus_jumper/DelMonteClaim.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DelMonteClaim.jpg"/></a>

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[markmar]

Joe

Ruth did't use the Waltz drawing but the Perfil map which is a view from north to south .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

Ruth did't use the Waltz drawing but the Perfil map which is a view from north to south .

Marius,

There was no map with Ruth. His instructions were written. We did not get the truth about his death or what was found with him.

Been saying that for years.

The view, I was told, that Ruth was looking for is at the far north end of the ridge. Not the view of the saddle framing the Needle. Right click on the "Del Monte" claim lettering.

<a href="DelMonteClaim.jpg Photo by cactus_jumper | Photobucket" target="_blank"><img src="http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...MonteClaim.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DelMonteClaim.jpg"/></a>


Good luck,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Joe

The place where was found the Ruth's body , reveals how he had use the Waltz's trail oral clue in combination with the Gonzales/Perfil map ( without reverse it ) .

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

The place where was found the Ruth's body , reveals how he had use the Waltz's trail oral clue in combination with the Gonzales/Perfil map ( without reverse it ) .

Marius,

I don't believe Ruth was using the Perfil Map. Definitely don't trust the source for that map......Never have.
Also have serious doubts that they found his body where they say it was found.




Good luck,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

I thought it would be fun for people to talk about, within reason, where they think the LDM might be. This is a thread to discuss what the mine means to you. What clues are important? What general area of the range do you think it is in? I would like to keep debates over the validity of clues out of this thread.

So where do you think it might be?

Here is a story that puts the mine, a mine, in the same general area that I have been exploring/researching. Again, it's just a report with no hard evidence but, for me, it's curious. I wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of all those people who have discovered the DLM?

 

[Oroblanco]

Here is a story that puts the mine, a mine, in the same general area that I have been exploring/researching. Again, it's just a report with no hard evidence but, for me, it's curious. I wonder if anyone has ever compiled a list of all those people who have discovered the DLM?

That would make an interesting exercise, though the list is pretty long and would probably fill a book by itself.

 

[Not Peralta]

That would make an interesting exercise, though the list is pretty long and would probably fill a book by itself.

Yes, there is such a list,"NONE", now you wont loose any sleep exercising.np

 

[Hal Croves]

Yes, there is such a list,"NONE", now you wont loose any sleep exercising.np

Perhaps.
Perhaps there is more than one old mine to locate.