Im surprised nobody has mentioned the codes on the saguaros or unusual

OP
OP
Carl995

Carl995

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very true......carrol...go look at terry solomans post titled "the true story of the lost dutchmans gold mine"...i'll try to post a link to it
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...178-true-story-lost-dutchman-s-gold-mine.html

they are calling him john the prospector but he is john d. wilburn... good friend of your dad's..that video was shot at the bluebird mine store
[h=3][/h]

My dad & I went there after we were done mining for lunch.
He always talked to John while I played with that old jukebox & watched people working on the boat motors.

We use to go to a house out there, I think the last name was Blankenship?
He had mouse traps all over the place!!
 

deducer

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Very interesting.. thanks for sharing, Carrol.
 

azdave35

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Dec 19, 2008
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My dad & I went there after we were done mining for lunch.
He always talked to John while I played with that old jukebox & watched people working on the boat motors.

We use to go to a house out there, I think the last name was Blankenship?
He had mouse traps all over the place!!

could it have been hanamaker instead of blankenship?
 

Azquester

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Dec 15, 2006
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Carrol,

I enjoyed the BIO very much. It reminded me of my Father and his quick draw days. He was a also a singing cowboy back in the 40's and 50's.

My father was quite good with the revolvers he could fire off two shots by the time you could pull the triggers on a double barrel pointed at him (Unloaded of course) before the hammers landed!

He used single action twin revolvers I had his holster after he passed and gave it to my late brother. I never knew what happened to it after that. I have some photo's somewhere of his quick draw days. I have some of his singing cowboy crooner days also. I was thinking about giving his stuff to a museum. He once took a Detective course for a Homicide Detective from a mail order place out of Chicago. He had the highest scores ever recorded. He went down and applied for a job with the Police Force. They rejected him for being to short and having flat feet. He wasted all that time taking that course for nothing. It sounds like your father and mine would have been good friends if they had known each other.

On a different note I found a petroglyph this weekend with some treasure symbols on it. Hard to make out as it was in the middle of the day and photographing petroglyphs usually has to be done at twilight and angled just right. One of them looks to be an Anchor symbol another an "S" symbol for superior trail. A third a cross.

I found those near the stone map with symbols similar to yours I posted and also near some old gold mines used by the military to fund a Mexican war with gold.







I
 

Nov 8, 2004
14,582
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Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
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Carol, this is not an attmpt to change the trend of this forum, but if the readers will grant me permission, I have a reprint of one of my posts in Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter regarding experiences.

###################
[h=3][/h][h=2]Re: Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter[/h]
Good afternoon: I posted this from a news paper article here in Mexico -->

Armed resistance to the Zetas is forming throughout Mexio by the citizens.
***********
A post was promptly sent to me --> with the tongue in cheek joke, " they need
you to teach them Jose", referring to the article mentioning that most did
not know how to use their arms effectively yet..
************
I, in return posted --> Morning Lxxxxx: As a matter of fact, I did train one that later turned enforcer for the local narcos, Charlito.. He knew of my reputation and asked me several times to teach him how to shoot a pistol, he was an exceptional student, I soon had to really stretch to stay with him. Hie managed to beat Billy The Kid by the time that he was the same age. His first notch was his sister.

He always claimed that it was an accident, that he was shooting at a hanging flower pot, which just happened to be aligned with the door and fired just as she stepped out . hmmmm. Incidentally, a bit of extremely jealous, incest was hinted at. hmmmm Next he was in the state police, where he became fairly wealthy and added more notches.. He would often drop by with other state police to have an informal match. He was constantly getting better.

One day while driving between Navojo and Obregon, I saw hundreds of book sized green plastic packages lying in the hiway. Naturally I stopped, and picked up an intact one for my friend in Alamos who had extremely bad arthritis. He steeped it in alcohol and after sufficient period, rubbed the concoction on his joints. He claimed that one application kept him pain free for over a week at a time. As we were leaving there, I saw a driver from California picking them up like firewood. snicker. Later I read that the state police had recovered 3 - 4 packages?? A state police car was entering the area just as I was leaving?? I often wondered if he and the Californian had any problems with each other. Later when I mentioned this to Charlito he became a bit agitated, and said " You @#$@#$, stupid, gringo, I have a good market for that, we could have made a fortune
huh.gif
.

The next that I heard of Charlito, was that he had just shot his superior while leaving a cantina. He shot him in the back of the neck as they were leaving with his .44 maggie. Then as his chief was laying on the ground gasping, he deliberately shot him twice more. He always claimed that one should never allow for a return match. The local police were afraid to try to apprehend him, so he rode off to his nearby ranch' It turns out that they were arguing how to split the money from up another batch of narcotics.

A week or so later the federals picked him up quietly at the ranch and he eventually did 2 years in a 'comfortable' prison. As he was leaving the prison a representative of the Federal police approached him and offered him a position with them ?? Here was a guy that had just killed his boss
huh.gif
He turned the federal down, since the local branch of the narcos had offered him much more money to be their enforcer.
He gained many more notches and set the basics for his undoing. Among his latest victims, was the son of the jefe (chief) of the competing narco group in Navajoa. The jefe thought that this wasn't quite cricket, and sent 3 men with auto weapons to balance things out.

Charlito was just a country boy at heart and stayed at his ranch just outside of Alamos. He used his mule for transportation. The three waited for him on top of a rise, and as he topped it, they opened up with automatic fire until their ammo ran out, it turned out that they were deathly afraid of him. Charlito, his mule, and his doggie were all shot full of holes. No serious effort was made to find them.

Once while I was exploring the sierras, I made friends with an Indian. He was a true product of the sierras, he could neither read nor write. One night, many months later, I heard a loud banging on my front door. Upon opening it, I found my Indian friend, drunk . He merrily breezed past me and entered the house. I maneuvered him into the kitchen and started dumping coffee into him.. As usual with some of the hill Indians down here, he was was giggling. as he sobered up he commenced to tell me that he had escaped the federal troops that had trapped his group of would be Indian revolutionaries, that the federals had killed many of his friends and that his jefe (chief) was holed up at --, I stopped him right there and said that I didn't want to know here his jefe was, since no matter what happened I would be blamed.

He understood, then said "Don Jose, I want you to go the US and get me 100 Garand M-1 Rifles in 30-06 , 1000 rounds for each, 10 .45 19'11, and the same amount of ammo for them.. I want you to buy a Bronco to bring them back, I will let you know where in the sierras to take them. Hmmm, -- I carefully explained to him that I personally did not have that that much money. He grunted , and said " No problem Don Jose, I'll give you 10 kilos of the black Opium extract. Sell it and keep what ever is left".

I then tried to explain the problems of passing the border, that the Mexican officials would inspect the car. He appeared puzzled and said "what right do they have to search your car ? again hmmm After giving him some vague promises to help him in other ways, he left. Side thingie, the slaughter of some 100 Indians was never reported or in the news papers.

Later one day, I ran across Charlito with a group of drunken narcos playing mariachi music along side of a back road. They were practicing with submachine guns shooting across the road. Naturally I stopped. Some of them approached me very belligerently and demanded to know what was I doing there. I was explaining that I was returning from the sierras, when Charlito appeared. After hugging me, he promptly told them to back off, that I was his personal friend and that I was the best pistolero in Mexico, that I had taught him how to shoot,, Naturally I had to have few beer, being Charlito's compadre (?) and as the conversation dragged a bit, I remember my Indian friend and asked charlito " I have an Indian friend in the sierras that wants me to sell 10 kilos of the black gum, what would his group think of it"? He sobered up a bit, thought, then said don't worry Jose, I will vouch for you, have fun, but please don't make a habit of this".

Sigh, think of the many lost chances to be wealthy that I have thrown away, I guess that I have to blame the lousy, cottin pickin, Border Patrol for reinforcing my original set of morals.

The BP, Bill Toney, Jordan, keith, McGivern and Capt Wadman all had a hand in my training. Without being a bit asinine, they did a good job, I beat the Mexican national pistol champion. When I was actively exploring the remote barraca regions, evey little group of people that I met, once they saw my .357 S&W on my belt, would insist on a bit of informal competition. I did my part to successfully uphold the BP's reputation, both with the pistol and propaganda. They were always greatly impressed when I insisted on setting up a human sized target up to 400 meters, they wouldn't even try with a rifle. They were particularly impressed with my quick draw work, 3/5th of a sec to draw and hit a sil target at 10 meters..

In the back country then, they didn't judge you by your position in life, but how much of a macho you were , and pistol work was the major part of it. Later I found that this reputation opened many doors, and protected me. ©@


Don Jose de La Mancha ( el sheltered Saint that lives in his cave at the end of the road meditating his mavel.​
 

OP
OP
Carl995

Carl995

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2015
665
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Carrol,

I enjoyed the BIO very much. It reminded me of my Father and his quick draw days. He was a also a singing cowboy back in the 40's and 50's.

My father was quite good with the revolvers he could fire off two shots by the time you could pull the triggers on a double barrel pointed at him (Unloaded of course) before the hammers landed!

He used single action twin revolvers I had his holster after he passed and gave it to my late brother. I never knew what happened to it after that. I have some photo's somewhere of his quick draw days. I have some of his singing cowboy crooner days also. I was thinking about giving his stuff to a museum. He once took a Detective course for a Homicide Detective from a mail order place out of Chicago. He had the highest scores ever recorded. He went down and applied for a job with the Police Force. They rejected him for being to short and having flat feet. He wasted all that time taking that course for nothing. It sounds like your father and mine would have been good friends if they had known each other.

On a different note I found a petroglyph this weekend with some treasure symbols on it. Hard to make out as it was in the middle of the day and photographing petroglyphs usually has to be done at twilight and angled just right. One of them looks to be an Anchor symbol another an "S" symbol for superior trail. A third a cross.

I found those near the stone map with symbols similar to yours I posted and also near some old gold mines used by the military to fund a Mexican war with gold.







I

Hi Bill,
Our fathers were much stronger & braver than today!!
I found some triangles you & Mike were talking about, i'll have to post a picture soon.
Donating to a museum is not always the best thing to do.
better to hand them down thru the family.
 

OP
OP
Carl995

Carl995

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2015
665
1,359
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Carol, this is not an attmpt to change the trend of this forum, but if the readers will grant me permission, I have a reprint of one of my posts in Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter regarding experiences.

###################
[h=3][/h][h=2]Re: Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter[/h]
Good afternoon: I posted this from a news paper article here in Mexico -->

Armed resistance to the Zetas is forming throughout Mexio by the citizens.
***********
A post was promptly sent to me --> with the tongue in cheek joke, " they need
you to teach them Jose", referring to the article mentioning that most did
not know how to use their arms effectively yet..
************
I, in return posted --> Morning Lxxxxx: As a matter of fact, I did train one that later turned enforcer for the local narcos, Charlito.. He knew of my reputation and asked me several times to teach him how to shoot a pistol, he was an exceptional student, I soon had to really stretch to stay with him. Hie managed to beat Billy The Kid by the time that he was the same age. His first notch was his sister.

He always claimed that it was an accident, that he was shooting at a hanging flower pot, which just happened to be aligned with the door and fired just as she stepped out . hmmmm. Incidentally, a bit of extremely jealous, incest was hinted at. hmmmm Next he was in the state police, where he became fairly wealthy and added more notches.. He would often drop by with other state police to have an informal match. He was constantly getting better.

One day while driving between Navojo and Obregon, I saw hundreds of book sized green plastic packages lying in the hiway. Naturally I stopped, and picked up an intact one for my friend in Alamos who had extremely bad arthritis. He steeped it in alcohol and after sufficient period, rubbed the concoction on his joints. He claimed that one application kept him pain free for over a week at a time. As we were leaving there, I saw a driver from California picking them up like firewood. snicker. Later I read that the state police had recovered 3 - 4 packages?? A state police car was entering the area just as I was leaving?? I often wondered if he and the Californian had any problems with each other. Later when I mentioned this to Charlito he became a bit agitated, and said " You @#$@#$, stupid, gringo, I have a good market for that, we could have made a fortune
huh.gif
.

The next that I heard of Charlito, was that he had just shot his superior while leaving a cantina. He shot him in the back of the neck as they were leaving with his .44 maggie. Then as his chief was laying on the ground gasping, he deliberately shot him twice more. He always claimed that one should never allow for a return match. The local police were afraid to try to apprehend him, so he rode off to his nearby ranch' It turns out that they were arguing how to split the money from up another batch of narcotics.

A week or so later the federals picked him up quietly at the ranch and he eventually did 2 years in a 'comfortable' prison. As he was leaving the prison a representative of the Federal police approached him and offered him a position with them ?? Here was a guy that had just killed his boss
huh.gif
He turned the federal down, since the local branch of the narcos had offered him much more money to be their enforcer.
He gained many more notches and set the basics for his undoing. Among his latest victims, was the son of the jefe (chief) of the competing narco group in Navajoa. The jefe thought that this wasn't quite cricket, and sent 3 men with auto weapons to balance things out.

Charlito was just a country boy at heart and stayed at his ranch just outside of Alamos. He used his mule for transportation. The three waited for him on top of a rise, and as he topped it, they opened up with automatic fire until their ammo ran out, it turned out that they were deathly afraid of him. Charlito, his mule, and his doggie were all shot full of holes. No serious effort was made to find them.

Once while I was exploring the sierras, I made friends with an Indian. He was a true product of the sierras, he could neither read nor write. One night, many months later, I heard a loud banging on my front door. Upon opening it, I found my Indian friend, drunk . He merrily breezed past me and entered the house. I maneuvered him into the kitchen and started dumping coffee into him.. As usual with some of the hill Indians down here, he was was giggling. as he sobered up he commenced to tell me that he had escaped the federal troops that had trapped his group of would be Indian revolutionaries, that the federals had killed many of his friends and that his jefe (chief) was holed up at --, I stopped him right there and said that I didn't want to know here his jefe was, since no matter what happened I would be blamed.

He understood, then said "Don Jose, I want you to go the US and get me 100 Garand M-1 Rifles in 30-06 , 1000 rounds for each, 10 .45 19'11, and the same amount of ammo for them.. I want you to buy a Bronco to bring them back, I will let you know where in the sierras to take them. Hmmm, -- I carefully explained to him that I personally did not have that that much money. He grunted , and said " No problem Don Jose, I'll give you 10 kilos of the black Opium extract. Sell it and keep what ever is left".

I then tried to explain the problems of passing the border, that the Mexican officials would inspect the car. He appeared puzzled and said "what right do they have to search your car ? again hmmm After giving him some vague promises to help him in other ways, he left. Side thingie, the slaughter of some 100 Indians was never reported or in the news papers.

Later one day, I ran across Charlito with a group of drunken narcos playing mariachi music along side of a back road. They were practicing with submachine guns shooting across the road. Naturally I stopped. Some of them approached me very belligerently and demanded to know what was I doing there. I was explaining that I was returning from the sierras, when Charlito appeared. After hugging me, he promptly told them to back off, that I was his personal friend and that I was the best pistolero in Mexico, that I had taught him how to shoot,, Naturally I had to have few beer, being Charlito's compadre (?) and as the conversation dragged a bit, I remember my Indian friend and asked charlito " I have an Indian friend in the sierras that wants me to sell 10 kilos of the black gum, what would his group think of it"? He sobered up a bit, thought, then said don't worry Jose, I will vouch for you, have fun, but please don't make a habit of this".

Sigh, think of the many lost chances to be wealthy that I have thrown away, I guess that I have to blame the lousy, cottin pickin, Border Patrol for reinforcing my original set of morals.

The BP, Bill Toney, Jordan, keith, McGivern and Capt Wadman all had a hand in my training. Without being a bit asinine, they did a good job, I beat the Mexican national pistol champion. When I was actively exploring the remote barraca regions, evey little group of people that I met, once they saw my .357 S&W on my belt, would insist on a bit of informal competition. I did my part to successfully uphold the BP's reputation, both with the pistol and propaganda. They were always greatly impressed when I insisted on setting up a human sized target up to 400 meters, they wouldn't even try with a rifle. They were particularly impressed with my quick draw work, 3/5th of a sec to draw and hit a sil target at 10 meters..

In the back country then, they didn't judge you by your position in life, but how much of a macho you were , and pistol work was the major part of it. Later I found that this reputation opened many doors, and protected me. ©@


Don Jose de La Mancha ( el sheltered Saint that lives in his cave at the end of the road meditating his mavel.​

WOW thats quite a feat!
 

OP
OP
Carl995

Carl995

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Bill,

Absolutely correct about topped Saguaros being used for two corners of a triangle. The North corner was usually a stone monument. Topped Saguaros were also used as trail markers. You get to one topped Saguaro, then start looking around for the next one. They were usually all on the same side of the trail.

LVBob,

Even today, Mexican Miners/Prospectors who know their old ways use Barrel Cacti as direction markers. If you go to the back side of Rich Hill (where nobody looks for gold), you will see in several places lines of Barrel Cacti. When they start to get old and are dying, they plant young Barrel Cacti right next to the dying ones. Nobody has ever (that I know of) caught them at it, but somebody is marking the direction to something there where nobody else is looking. If you ever go to Stanton/Rich Hill, ask around some of the old timers.

HINT: Also ask them about the light flashes at dusk. Very interesting. Here is a thread I started about it a while back:

LIGHT FLASHES

Mike

Why do you think they put iron bands on the barrels & saguaros?
I have never known the answer to this. 2 bands on top in picture.
View attachment 1196161
 

Last edited:
Nov 8, 2004
14,582
11,942
Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
Primary Interest:
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Hi Carol,
when I was on the trail of the La Tarasca - another lost Spanish mine - part of the instructions were " when I came to a cliff, I was to stop and not proceed any further, but to look for a small mesa. I was to decend to the mesa where I would find a rock similar in size and shape to a kitchen table, that I would find a rock that wuld serve as a chair and to look to the west, which the view had been blocked had by a Sahuaro, that had been topped off, giving a clear view to a mt range to the west. Below a crest, the dump of the mine could be seen".

Everythng was true, except that so much time had passed in a hurricae prone zone, that all visible evidence had been washed away.

I have no idea how old that Hecho - cousin to the Sahuaro- was, but you could still sit the table rock and see what the original person could see..
 

Last edited:

Azquester

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Dec 15, 2006
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My family possibly but, they haven't got a clue and really aren't interested as with most youth today. I'm not posting any pictures of my father on your posts unless it's alright with you this is your subject.
I wish I could find the picture of the carved Dagger in a saguaro I once snapped a photo of. I know it's somewhere I haven't come across it just yet. It's right in a mining area near a large bell shaped stone at the Mine Shrine.

Your Father was a smart man and he knows a lot of what I already know now after years of research in the field. Infinity utilizes all landscapes. Some Pictographs and Petroglyphs give instructions for the mining sites. It's the amounts and placements that give it verification. If it's near a mining area it has meaning. Whomever did this they left the clues for us to find a lot of it being in front center of our nose.

He was correct though a lot of these larger saguaro's have since died from the desert droughts but, they, whomever they were, left other ways of reading the Cacti. I have a photo somewhere above a death trap. It has a Tombstone shaped rock with the letters "RIP" scratched in it! Some sense of humor hey?







Hi Bill,
Our fathers were much stronger & braver than today!!
I found some triangles you & Mike were talking about, i'll have to post a picture soon.
Donating to a museum is not always the best thing to do.
better to hand them down thru the family.
 

Azquester

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Dec 15, 2006
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Carrol,

I've found those rings in the desert before and never knew what they were until now!
Wow!

Those rocks look similar to what Oren Arnold photographed down here in the Catalina Mountains in his article.

I would say the placement of the stones in relation to there location would be all important.


Great photo's to bad they were sold off.




Why do you think they put iron bands on the barrels & saguaros?
I have never known the answer to this. 2 bands on top in picture.
View attachment 1196161
 

OP
OP
Carl995

Carl995

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Apr 5, 2015
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Carrol,

I've found those rings in the desert before and never knew what they were until now!
Wow!

Those rocks look similar to what Oren Arnold photographed down here in the Catalina Mountains in his article.

I would say the placement of the stones in relation to there location would be all important.


Great photo's to bad they were sold off.

The only ones that got sold is the 2 he donated to the museum & they sold them (I dont know which 2 they were),
others were given to friends & I buried a few myself.
I have the dagger carving photo & the locations of everything I listed.
Since I know 1 of the cache locations of the 4 ( I was there & something happened there I'll never forget), I was thinking of trying to figure out the other 3.
My dad had figured out the other 3 & wanted to show me,
but I felt he was too sick to take out there & I really didn't have the interest at that time knowing their in the state park areas.
I'm going to have a problem transferring the locations of the saguaros & stone markers to google maps,
because I have degree co-ordinances in relation to the claims we had, him knowing about true north.
That just might be over my head!!
 

Azquester

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Dec 15, 2006
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Carrol, How were the bands bonded together? Were they pounded and forged together or riveted?
I'm curious, what happened there you'll never forget?
I knew they used true north not magnetic from the site I've been working on.
With degree coordinates-and I'm not that versed in that sort of positioning-doesn't it require three known land marks for triangulation?






The only ones that got sold is the 2 he donated to the museum & they sold them (I dont know which 2 they were),
others were given to friends & I buried a few myself.
I have the dagger carving photo & the locations of everything I listed.
Since I know 1 of the cache locations of the 4 ( I was there & something happened there I'll never forget), I was thinking of trying to figure out the other 3.
My dad had figured out the other 3 & wanted to show me,
but I felt he was too sick to take out there & I really didn't have the interest at that time knowing their in the state park areas.
I'm going to have a problem transferring the locations of the saguaros & stone markers to google maps,
because I have degree co-ordinances in relation to the claims we had, him knowing about true north.
That just might be over my head!!
 

OP
OP
Carl995

Carl995

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2015
665
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Primary Interest:
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Carrol, How were the bands bonded together? Were they pounded and forged together or riveted?
I'm curious, what happened there you'll never forget?
I knew they used true north not magnetic from the site I've been working on.
With degree coordinates-and I'm not that versed in that sort of positioning-doesn't it require three known land marks for triangulation?

I think they were forged, I'm not sure, I have them somewhere buried in my dads stuff.
The wire you see in the picture was attached to a wood crate for when they took some of the gold bars out.
The only land marks I have are the corners of the claims he had. Originally had his claim posts at the corners. I see some of the claim locations are online.
 

OP
OP
Carl995

Carl995

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Apr 5, 2015
665
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Primary Interest:
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Carrol, How were the bands bonded together? Were they pounded and forged together or riveted?
I'm curious, what happened there you'll never forget?
I knew they used true north not magnetic from the site I've been working on.
With degree coordinates-and I'm not that versed in that sort of positioning-doesn't it require three known land marks for triangulation?

I think they were forged, I'm not sure, I have them somewhere buried in my dads stuff.
The wire you see in the picture was attached to a wood crate for when they took some of the gold bars out.
The only land marks I have are the corners of the claims he had. Originally had his claim posts at the corners. I see some of the claim locations are online.


I want to add that I'm having trouble getting this thread up on my computer?? Dont know whats happening?
 

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