Legend of the Stone Maps

[wrmickel1]

Its leave-it-rite where you found it.:sly:

 

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[EarnieP]

Possibly Hematite? "A naturally occurring globular mass of iron oxide, commonly found in NM and AZ."

 

[gollum]

View attachment 1191068

I thought that this was proven to be a hoax long before the stone maps and that some of the stone maps legend was interpreted from the rendering of this picture.The story and all the maps were debunked (supposedly) by the authors who researched it starting in from 1965 to 73? All the maps with tops, horses head,locations theories from 45 years ago. Its a news paper article in a pdf form so it takes it a few minutes to open.

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...rticles/Are the Peralta Stone Maps a Hoax.pdf

I keep posting this..... has any of the legend hunters read this old news paper article by Bernice and Jack Mcgee and its research?

Tnmountains,

Nothing has ever been PROVEN one way or another regarding the Stone Maps (other than a good portion of their modern history since 1949).

Bernice and Jack McGee (in the article) believe the Stone Maps are hoaxes because they were operating under the premise of the story that the Peralta/Gonzalez Families MADE and BURIED the stone maps during the massacre. That story in and of itself is ridiculous. They were correct in thinking that the story could not be true. Does not mean they couldn't have been made somewhere else, at another time, by someone else.

If they were made by James Addison Reavis for his Peralta Land Grant Fraud in the 1880s, Reavis would have mentioned it when he detailed his entire fraud scheme in an interview with the San Francisco Call Newspaper in 1899:



He details getting Spanish Scribes to do his forging of documents. He details many things, but never once mentions forging (or having made) any stone maps. They would have been one of the keys to his land fraud (just like the rectangular marking found on the "inicial monument":


Mike

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I didn't know that.
Thank you for bringing it to my attention.


May I ask what happened to Frank's post from last night? Do you know if it was it removed by the mods or by Frank himself?

Thank you for the help!

Several were removed by another mod for rule violations.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Darn Gully, ya ruined my orignal version of Reavis involvement, , although it has taken a turn lately, thanks to NP's lil map.

 

[Old]

Mike, I'd say the maps WERE made "somewhere else, at another time, by someone else". Most definitely. Let's hope we can find out, once and for all, where, when and by whom. Got as good a chance to find out as we've had in some time. We just might get to know that answer.

Homar; Which one of these Mark Twain quotes were you referring to?

"There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded"

"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please"

or maybe this one.........

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so"

On another note, yeap, some posts were removed and some have been returned. Sometimes being too fast on the trigger, does that. Wink. Moderation is a good thing, in moderation.

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Lynda,

All of those quotes are wonderful quotes, I'll take them all.

Homar

 

[Tnmountains]

Thanks Mike for your informative and knowledgeable reply

Tnmountains,

Nothing has ever been PROVEN one way or another regarding the Stone Maps (other than a good portion of their modern history since 1949).

Bernice and Jack McGee (in the article) believe the Stone Maps are hoaxes because they were operating under the premise of the story that the Peralta/Gonzalez Families MADE and BURIED the stone maps during the massacre. That story in and of itself is ridiculous. They were correct in thinking that the story could not be true. Does not mean they couldn't have been made somewhere else, at another time, by someone else.

If they were made by James Addison Reavis for his Peralta Land Grant Fraud in the 1880s, Reavis would have mentioned it when he detailed his entire fraud scheme in an interview with the San Francisco Call Newspaper in 1899:

View attachment 1191212 View attachment 1191213

He details getting Spanish Scribes to do his forging of documents. He details many things, but never once mentions forging (or having made) any stone maps. They would have been one of the keys to his land fraud (just like the rectangular marking found on the big boulder:

View attachment 1191217

Mike

 

[Azquester]

I've never seen that land grant petroglyph before. I photographed one of those somewhere else I have it in my collection. Never knew what it meant until now.

The one I found is no where near that one which I heard was in the Sierra Estrella range. I have photos of the Petroglyphs from Montezuma's Head with drill holes in boulders. A Massacre occurred there long ago just like in the Superstitions.

I'll see if I can dig up my photo of one of those land grant panels.

These first two are land grant panels I believe now. The others are from near the same area. Try and figure that map out on the front of the ox or goat head with the lizard and spider on it.


View attachment 1191479 View attachment 1191480


View attachment 1191481 View attachment 1191482



View attachment 1191483 View attachment 1191484 View attachment 1191485

 

[Azquester]

Homar,

You can take those quotes but I grew up right where Mark Twain invented those quotes!
As a boy I fished / swam from the same old covered bridge as Tom & Huck and rafted down the same Bear Creek!
That's no bull.
Been to Injun Joe's grave and Becky Thatchers house.

Played in Mark Twains cave, ate at his restaurant, been to his house walked in his shoes.

Good old Mark Twain.
That whole town economy was built around his book about Tom and Huck.
Used to tee off all the locals they would give anything about him priority in the down town section over other businesses!

We sort of had his quotes shoved down our throats when I was young.

Good old Sam Clemens.

A legendary writer.

Howdy Lynda,

All of those quotes are wonderful quotes, I'll take them all.

Homar

 

[gollum]

Here is a modern pic of Reavis' "Inicial Monument":



The boxed monument is on the lower left of the modern pic. Easy to see. It is only a buggy ride from Phoenix (in 1880)!

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

Posted on other sites, and looking for a logical answer from anyone:
_____________________________________________

I do have one question......It's been pretty well established that Travis T. did carve the Stone Maps. He may have done them by copying them from a paper or skin map. Why would he then transfer them to the very unwieldy stone slabs which needed to be carried around in the trunk of his car. What logic could be found in that fact, other than to create something for sale.

Where is the original that he copied onto the stones? Now there is something that would have some huge value, because they could be authenticated. If his wife didn't know, who would? If they existed, she should have sold them, along with the story, to her "sucker". $$$$$$$$$

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Someone else asked the same question last Friday on the other site.

Postby somehiker » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:19 pm

Bad Knees wrote:
I'm convinced that Travis made the Peralta Stones, I'm not convinced

it was for entirely innocent motives.
Why would a man use 25 pound stone slabs to copy maps when paper is such an easier and lighter medium to work with, and much more portable.
Why did Travis concoct the elaborate story of their 'discovery'?
Hopefully, all will be explained in Ryan's upcoming book.
Where can I get in line for my autographed copy (Ryan, Frank, Joe), with of course, a personalized handwritten note?

To which I answered.....

The man was writing a book, a work of fiction, from which he undoubtedly hoped to earn back some or all of the money he had invested in his quest. He needed something that would make this adventure story stand out amongst the others that lined bookstore shelves. What better a zinger than a set of stone slabs covered with mysterious images, treasure symbols, and Spanish phrases. Such are a rarity in classic treasure tales, and Travis' personal arts and crafts project would serve this purpose well, as would his fanciful tale of having found them in the desert by chance. Or so he told his friends while sharing and discussing the now discredited tablets with them in Hood River, even going so far as to tell Bob Bair that he had added the zeros to the back of his own heart stone. One could argue that he was not really lying to them, but merely testing their gullibility as a measure of his abilities to "wow" his potential readers. Just another map on parchment or cow hide would be less likely to draw the attention he sought as a writer. On the other hand, maybe he just wanted a fancy collection of door stops and paper weights.
But somebody saw one and said "WHOA....that looks like a Spanish Treasure Map !!!!".
And so it all began.....

Regards:SH.

Hopes this helps

 

[sdcfia]

Mike,

Posted on other sites, and looking for a logical answer from anyone:
_____________________________________________

I do have one question......It's been pretty well established that Travis T. did carve the Stone Maps. He may have done them by copying them from a paper or skin map. Why would he then transfer them to the very unwieldy stone slabs which needed to be carried around in the trunk of his car. What logic could be found in that fact, other than to create something for sale.

Where is the original that he copied onto the stones? Now there is something that would have some huge value, because they could be authenticated. If his wife didn't know, who would? If they existed, she should have sold them, along with the story, to her "sucker". $$$$$$$$$

Take care,

Joe

Good question Joe, but for me, this discussion has now superseded Travis and put the spotlight directly on Pegleg, where it always should have been.

 

[Backwoodsbob]

Who did the mapping for the Spanish?

 

[somehiker]

Who did the mapping for the Spanish?

That would be a history lesson in itself Bob.
Various entities, including explorers and military types, Franciscan/Dominican and Jesuit mapmakers, landowners etc. in the beginning, and possibly a few official surveyors later, especially after Mexican independence.

Regards:SH.

 

[Backwoodsbob]

Who were the one that did the stone work? The animal face an all.

 

[Backwoodsbob]

What does the letters J.V.S. that is carved into the stone

 

[somehiker]

There's no animal faces or JVS on Travis' carvings, so it wasn't him.
On other rocks, it could have been anybody passing by.

 

[gollum]

Mike,

Posted on other sites, and looking for a logical answer from anyone:
_____________________________________________

I do have one question......It's been pretty well established that Travis T. did carve the Stone Maps. He may have done them by copying them from a paper or skin map. Why would he then transfer them to the very unwieldy stone slabs which needed to be carried around in the trunk of his car. What logic could be found in that fact, other than to create something for sale.

Where is the original that he copied onto the stones? Now there is something that would have some huge value, because they could be authenticated. If his wife didn't know, who would? If they existed, she should have sold them, along with the story, to her "sucker". $$$$$$$$$

Take care,

Joe

I don't agree with you. It has actually been pretty well established that Travis Carved "ON" the Stone Maps. Travis even said as much to his friend in Oregon. He told him he had carved all the zeros on the back of the heart insert. Just in case someone stole the Stone Maps, it would throw them off.

In the interview with Joe Tumlinson, he said the trail stones he remembered were lighter, like the H/P Stone. It is just as possible that what the family members saw was Travis either carving EXTRA symbols on the maps (as we have all been saying since I started researching them, it looks like two completely separate sets of carvings are on them). It is also just as possible that what they saw was Travis carving a set of copies of the originals. Maybe the originals were on the lighter stone described by Joe T. Maybe the originals were on the darker stone and Travis T carved the copies on the lighter stones.

The truth is.....we will in all probability never know. Between the lies, embellishments, mistakes, etc. Who knows just what information to trust? NOBODY! Does Joe T REALLY remember all that as well as he says? It was about 63 years ago. How old is Joe T?

As I have said several times before, the only way to really solves the Stone Maps (if there is a real solution) will be for someone to accidentally find something that corresponds with markings on one of them, then reverse engineer (so to speak) the rest of the maps. IMHO

Mike